Advice on college issue

[daniel87]

Hello, I have a question that I would like answered soon if possible. I have just started college and it seems I am the only catholic, those in my class speak of some of the worst sins as if they were the most natural things in the world, their lives revolve around sins of overindulgence and lust.
At the moment I am biding my time and trying to think of some way to tackle this problem, I pray for them and for me that I will be immune to their influence and that I can help them. Should I speak openly of God, though they most probably complete athesists, or should I be more subtle about mentioning God, and how?
In most of their talk they openly speak of sins of the flesh, and planning to get drunk, drugs and a host of things that make me doubt they have consciences, I want to find a good way to seperate the sin from the sinner but with each day its getting worse I think, please give me good suggestions for this. Should I stay with them and try to introduce good into their lives and, hopefully, ultimately God, or leave them to their own devices? or perhaps leave college altogether?
Please reply quickly, sometimes in their ‘talks’ I feel like shouting at them and their horrible ways, to tell them that their doing wrong are where thats going to lead them, but I try to be patient and wait for a good time maybe with each one alone and give them some advice so that once apart from each other they will not laugh or hopefully listen without distractions from one another, but I myself will wait for some console from you and other good sources before I take action and that with Gods help will not cause a greater drift between them and Him, that unplanned guidance may cause. So pray for me, my fellow students especially those in my class, and students everywhere as they will be the next people to control the world and they way it looks is not great.

So with your prayers and advice, how will I go about this mass conversion, hopefully starting with my class? and some of the topics advice that would be of benefit (also any links appreciated): contraception, abortion, lust, self- defilement, excessive alcohol, slothfulness, the theory of evolution, existance of God, bad language, mockery and how to redirect bad conversations.
Not only all this but in a way that they would most likely listen and not joke about, and because of no religion these will most have to be from social - political - athesist philiosophy/morality standpoints. Not going to be too easy, I know that example is hugely important so I will ask your prayers for this. I can adequately defend the faith so I need more advice from the unbelievers view but any good advice will be taken, and fresh looks on the faith is always good. So once again pray for us and just incase you might forget, please pray a little for us right now. Thanks and God bless.

 

[daniel87]

Hello, I have a question that I would like answered soon if possible. I have just started college and it seems I am the only catholic, those in my class speak of some of the worst sins as if they were the most natural things in the world, their lives revolve around sins of overindulgence and lust.
At the moment I am biding my time and trying to think of some way to tackle this problem, I pray for them and for me that I will be immune to their influence and that I can help them. Should I speak openly of God, though they most probably complete athesists, or should I be more subtle about mentioning God, and how?
In most of their talk they openly speak of sins of the flesh, and planning to get drunk, drugs and a host of things that make me doubt they have consciences, I want to find a good way to seperate the sin from the sinner but with each day its getting worse I think, please give me good suggestions for this. Should I stay with them and try to introduce good into their lives and, hopefully, ultimately God, or leave them to their own devices? or perhaps leave college altogether?
Please reply quickly, sometimes in their ‘talks’ I feel like shouting at them and their horrible ways, to tell them that their doing wrong are where thats going to lead them, but I try to be patient and wait for a good time maybe with each one alone and give them some advice so that once apart from each other they will not laugh or hopefully listen without distractions from one another, but I myself will wait for some console from you and other good sources before I take action and that with Gods help will not cause a greater drift between them and Him, that unplanned guidance may cause. So pray for me, my fellow students especially those in my class, and students everywhere as they will be the next people to control the world and they way it looks is not great.

So with your prayers and advice, how will I go about this mass conversion, hopefully starting with my class? and some of the topics advice that would be of benefit (also any links appreciated): contraception, abortion, lust, self- defilement, excessive alcohol, slothfulness, the theory of evolution, existance of God, bad language, mockery and how to redirect bad conversations.
Not only all this but in a way that they would most likely listen and not joke about, and because of no religion these will most have to be from social - political - athesist philiosophy/morality standpoints. Not going to be too easy, I know that example is hugely important so I will ask your prayers for this. I can adequately defend the faith so I need more advice from the unbelievers view but any good advice will be taken, and fresh looks on the faith is always good. So once again pray for us and just incase you might forget, please pray a little for us right now. Thanks and God bless.

 

[pumpkinbeast]

I can totally relate to your situation. I’m in my second year of university myself. In my experience, the only people willing to listen to what you have to say will be the ones asking sincere questions about your faith. It can be tough to figure out who actually wants to know the answer to their questions, and who is asking simply to start a debate. I try to not be afraid to mention what I believe, if the conversation turns around to a certain topic. Like, say your friend says “I can’t wait to get drunk Friday night!” I’ll reply “I’ve never been drunk, and never will. I don’t want to throw up and get a hangover, not my idea of fun.” In other words, don’t be afraid to mention that you have made difference choices in your life style than other people. If they ask why, you can explain “Well, I’m Catholic, and we believe and we believe is wrong.” You are going to incite confusion, disbelief, debates, and possibly even hatred by saying that, but Jesus Himself said “I come not to bring peace to the earth, but a sword…” Hopefully, you will also be able to find friends who are at least willing to accept your beliefs. I have found not one single person, not even a professed Catholic, who will agree with me on the issues you mentioned at my school. I’m lucky enough to have my bf, who does agree with me, even though we’re long distance. Be prepared to be quite lonely, in terms of human friendships, because you are willing to stick up for what you believe and know to be true. Pray for wisdom so that you can speak the words that just might change a heart or two towards Jesus.

On a side note, the theory of evolution is not bad in itself. It’s a theory, a way of explaining the fossil record. It has holes, but parts of it are fairly plausible. The difficulty arises when it’s used to explain away the existence of God. Keep in mind the Church has issued no official ruling on how the world started and progressed to where we are now, only that God created the universe and everything in it, and placed Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden as the parents of humanity at some point in history, where they were tempted and Fell.

Good luck; I’ll keep you in my prayers, and ask that you keep me in your, too. I think we both need it.

 

[Verisimilitude]

Hello, I have a question that I would like answered soon if possible. I have just started college and it seems I am the only catholic,…

There are over a billion Catholics and another billion + Christians on Earth with you. Very likely some of those you are speaking about. Seek them out.

So with your prayers and advice, how will I go about this mass conversion,…

Follow the example of our Teacher. Christ lives in many young people today. This is your chance to be that person.

I have seen people like that in my life and your post made me think of them and how important they are.

I have been to some big parties. I even remember a few, but at times I would spot someone that stood out at these parties. Funny thing is I never remembered who they are or even if I spoke to them all, but I always seemd to recognize them when they were around. They are always somebody different but they are exactly the same in one respect; you just KNOW they are a decent human being…which is why they stand out in the den of iniquity these parties are.

Another unique identifier these Good people exhibited was the quiet confidence they employed when graciously turning down the 22nd offer of a beer because they do not drink socially.

I would watch them tend to their friends with concern, seemingly indifferent to the smoke and profanity with a smile of friendship because they simply cared. They often seemed to enjoy the environment but did not partake of any of the vices. I noticed more guys like that than girls, but I do remember the women more because those I would talk to. When those girls shoot you down it doesn’t make you feel bad like most rejections do.

It is mostly the brief encounter, or momentary glimpse that leave the impressions that last a lifetime. God is the way of subtlety. If you can live the example for others to see, they will see it and that would be more powerfull than any oratory about Who they already know.

I would see these people in many places other than parties back then. I would see them in classes, in stores, and in the many places I go. I see them today. I look for them. I try and be of them.

Don’t shout it. Live it humbly and quietly. The world is loud enough with others shouting their messege drowning out all. Make your noise in Mass on Sundays singing. Let the Church speak loudly for you in large things, but when asked personally let the Church guide your response tempered by charity. As Mother Teresa says in her book: “Smile for Jesus”

Good luck in school.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

You should not directly confront them, that will make your college life difficult. What you describe is actually very “normal” for colleges these days, including coming from the school “newspaper” and even “professors”.

Two suggestions:

1. Keep learning about your Catholic faith, and keep near the Sacraments.

2)Check if there is a Newman Center on campus. Newman Centers are where Catholics hang out, led by solid Catholic volunteers.

 

[HouseArrest]

Okay - I’m “old” now, but I was in your situation once. I would go out to bars with everyone else, but never did the stuff that some of my friends and acquaintances did. They would play this game called “I never” in which they said “I never…” and added some behavior, like “I never shoplifted”. And then if you actually did do that, you’d have to take a drink. (You can imagine how raunchy that got). Well, I never had to take a drink. I never acted embarrassed or pretended I did any of those things. At first I’d get laughed at. When the game came to an end, inevitably somebody would come up to me and say how they respected my convictions. Then I would tell them they didn’t “have to” act that way, either. There were other situations besides the game in which chances to admit to moral behavior would come up. Sometimes just talking about how you live your life when the subjects come up is enough.

 

[LuxDei]

It is mostly the brief encounter, or momentary glimpse that leave the impressions that last a lifetime. God is the way of subtlety. If you can live the example for others to see, they will see it and that would be more powerfull than any oratory about Who they already know.

Don’t shout it. Live it humbly and quietly. The world is loud enough with others shouting their messege drowning out all. Make your noise in Mass on Sundays singing. Let the Church speak loudly for you in large things, but when asked personally let the Church guide your response tempered by charity. As Mother Teresa says in her book: “Smile for Jesus”

WELL SAID! I, too, am a college student (3rd year myself), and I encounter lots of people like this. But I think they’re everywhere. And Veri is right, we need to evangelize through our example and our compassionate presence rather than our rhetoric.

Having said that, sometimes, you just need to find some new friends! That doesn’t mean you cut off all contact with the others, but we all need support. Does your campus have a Newman Center? Mine does, and that’s a great way to meet other students who are serious about their faith.

No, you shouldn’t drop out of school…What are you gonna do, move to the Vatican and hide there? But seriously, people who are still deeply wounding themselves with grave sin are everywhere, and you’ll encounter them when you get into the working world too.

Just do your best to live out your values. And if someone asks, then maybe you could initiate a non-confrontational conversation about your faith. I think this truly fulfills, in most cases, our duty to “admonish the sinner.” First, we admonish him through our example. Then, we admonish him by being open about our faith. In most cases, they get the picture that you believe what they’re doing is sinful/immoral. If they inquire further, for example as to WHY you think premarital sex or drunkenness are wrong, then you could go a little further. Most people don’t do that, though. I’ve only had a few ask me about my beliefs, but I’ve found that it’s best to try to put things in a positive light rather than a NO NO light.

I’m a girl, so some of my responses would be different than yours, but just for example,

*all the lust issues - I would say something like “I think there’s a much more fulfilling and beautiful plan for human sexuality.”
*drinking excessively - I’d point out that I see value/beauty in our ability to reason, and I have no desire to cloud my capacity to do so. Or, on a more practical level, you could just say that you see how it makes people do STUPID things that they regret and that you’d prefer to stay in control of yourself.
*abortion - tough one for hardcore pro-choicers. I usually don’t try to battle that one out with friends; I just explain that I believe a new, unique human life is formed at the moment of conception (which is biologically true) and that I think it deserves a chance at life.
*bad language - that would be hard with guys. Maybe you could just stick to example on that one and refuse to use it yourself. Or, you could say something like “whoa there!” if they get REALLY vulgar.

• evolution - the Catholic Church permits both a literal and a metaphorical interpretation of the Creation Story in Genesis (see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_and_the_Roman_Catholic_Church)). I personally think it’s entirely possible that we did “evolve,” (and the Church permits me to have that interpretation as long as I acknowledge that GOD willed and guided that process, and that God set humans apart by endowing them with an eternal soul, and then they broke their relationship with Him, etc.). I wouldn’t fight with your friends on that one, since your own Church wouldn’t! (provided the things I mentioned earlier…which I know your friends don’t believe, but tackle those issues separately!)
  *existence of God - GOOD LUCK is all I can say. This one I would stick almost completely to witnessing by example rather than words. Unless someone confronts you/asks you about it…Then you should look into St. Thomas Aquinas’ logical proofs for the existence of God (the uncaused cause, etc.).
  *redirecting bad conversations - just change the subject or something, I guess.

Bottom line - It wouldn’t be healthy to spend every waking moment with people like that, so try to find some like-minded young people at a Newman Center or a nearby parish. Then, let your heart be guided by compassion for the Lord and for others.

To quote St. Francis of Assisi, “Preach the gospel at all times (and when necessary, use words).”

 

[Ceil-1]

And whatever it takes, get to daily Mass. You need spiritual nourishment to fend off temptations and receive the graces you need to be an effective witness. Make it a priority. In all reality, it is more important than your education.

It would be better for you to find a school situation that puts you around a better class of people. I worry about this for my own children. Pray, and Our Lord will send you what you need. God bless.

 

[nichjake]

Wow, you must go to a really crummy college if you come across stuff like that. Even in the biggest Atheist organization on campus NONE of that goes on. Our leader is a bartender but doesn’t drink…we’re mostly science geeks and we get to together and talk about deep philisophical concepts that can apply to everything. Really, its quite sad to assume all social degenerates are atheists…I have yet to meet an atheist that fits the description of your classmates.

I would say just stay away from them if their behaviour bothers you so much…in all reality theres not a thing you can do about it unless they’re old friends of yours. Like someone else said, seek out others who are more like minded to hang out with…not everyone in college is a bad influence

 

[pumpkinbeast]

Wow, you must go to a really crummy college if you come across stuff like that. Even in the biggest Atheist organization on campus NONE of that goes on. Our leader is a bartender but doesn’t drink…we’re mostly science geeks and we get to together and talk about deep philisophical concepts that can apply to everything. Really, its quite sad to assume all social degenerates are atheists…I have yet to meet an atheist that fits the description of your classmates.

I would say just stay away from them if their behaviour bothers you so much…in all reality theres not a thing you can do about it unless they’re old friends of yours. Like someone else said, seek out others who are more like minded to hang out with…not everyone in college is a bad influence

I have to agree with you on that one - there are some atheists that I get along with better than some ‘Catholics’. In fact, I’ve had some of the most heated arguments about abortion with a ‘Catholic’ who attends Mass every Sunday. One woman I met liked to talked about all the people she has had sex with, and that she has no problem having sex outside of marriage, and that she was “quite the Catholic”. x.x

 

[rwoehmke]

If you cannot change your surroundings for one reason or another, like can’t afford a better school, etc. My two remaining pieces of advice would be to avoid partying with these people and to not confront them about their values. Rather follow the advice of the poster above who placed more value on sexuality and keeping an unclouded mind. Keep those value statements personal and applied to self. People have to be totally blind not to notice and compare your values with their own. Some will change because of your example not because of your preaching.

I am sure that some of what you are hearing are those uncertain folks who feel they have to talk a good story to fit in or to look like a big shot on campus.

 

[RenaissanceMare]

I just wanted to add, that I feel we do more good for Christ living in this world amoungst everyone else, instead of hiding ourselves away in Christian only settings. As someone who wandered and then returned, I can tell you that the people who lived their faith, answered my questions without preaching, and expressed the love of Christ were the ones that helped me realize just how amazing life with Jesus can be.

 

[LSK]

I also think you can do more good than you realize by living a very Catholic life and showing, by your example, that such a life is not only necessary for salvation but DESIRABLE. Speaking as someone who wandered and sinned and fell away hard, one of the things that brought me back was seeing the kind of lives people like you had that I had thrown away. I also want to tell you that the people who welcomed me home with open arms did so without abandoning the Truth and yet were gentle and kind to me.

Having said that, I absolutely understand your frustration. I know I must have given good people like you more than a few headaches in my day. Pray, go to Mass and don’t give up hope. Believe it or not, people are watching and listening to you…be not afraid.

 

[Dameedna]

I’m not sure if this is going to help you, since I’m probably like one of those people you speak.

But there are some things I’ve learned along the way, as I’ve come across other’s who I really, really disagree with.

The first thing I do is accept…I’m NOT in charge.

As an agnostic, I say “It’s not me in charge”. As a christian, you will say “God is in charge”.

And that’s really the case. You CANNOT change these people. And your ahgnst is not because of their particular sins, but I suspect you are coming up against your own impotence. You cannot change them. And it hurts you.

Quite honestly? Get over it. You aren’t in charge, and you aren’t responsible for changing them. (tho I commend you for caring). They are just people, your role in life is not to spend your time morally analyzing them. That isn’t your job. Just get to know them. And really get to know yourself as well(the nurturing of your soul IS your job)

Despite all the drugs, parties and what-not, you will also see a friend, stay up till 3am to help another friend finish an assignment. You will see a friend(who is sober), get out of bed at 4am to drive another friend home, so they don’t have an accident. You will see a friend, berate another friend for flirting with some-one’s partner. You will see them volunteer their time to the animal shelter, or take in a stray and hungry cat. You will see honestly, beauty and goodness where-ever you go if you only but look for it. Stop the moral judgments if you can, and allow yourself the freedom to explore the world.

Don’t be so worried about their sins, since you don’t decide for them. Look for their souls and their humanity and you will learn to let the rest go.

And don’t preach to them what they don’t want to hear. It wont’ work.

 

[GuanYuWarGod]

I’m not sure if this is going to help you, since I’m probably like one of those people you speak.

But there are some things I’ve learned along the way, as I’ve come across other’s who I really, really disagree with.

The first thing I do is accept…I’m NOT in charge.

As an agnostic, I say “It’s not me in charge”. As a christian, you will say “God is in charge”.

And that’s really the case. You CANNOT change these people. And your ahgnst is not because of their particular sins, but I suspect you are coming up against your own impotence. You cannot change them. And it hurts you.

Quite honestly? Get over it. You aren’t in charge, and you aren’t responsible for changing them. (tho I commend you for caring). They are just people, your role in life is not to spend your time morally analyzing them. That isn’t your job. Just get to know them. And really get to know yourself as well(the nurturing of your soul IS your job)

Despite all the drugs, parties and what-not, you will also see a friend, stay up till 3am to help another friend finish an assignment. You will see a friend(who is sober), get out of bed at 4am to drive another friend home, so they don’t have an accident. You will see a friend, berate another friend for flirting with some-one’s partner. You will see them volunteer their time to the animal shelter, or take in a stray and hungry cat. You will see honestly, beauty and goodness where-ever you go if you only but look for it. Stop the moral judgments if you can, and allow yourself the freedom to explore the world.

Don’t be so worried about their sins, since you don’t decide for them. Look for their souls and their humanity and you will learn to let the rest go.

And don’t preach to them what they don’t want to hear. It wont’ work.

For a Christian, God is in charge of what exactly?

Please rationalize. This philosophy on freedom of yours is none other than a philosophy that states, “Do whatever I wish for I am free”. Such is a damning philosophy that ruins the very structure of human morality and love, the ultimate goal of human life. Man is a free being but man must use not misuse such a gift. Unfortunately man is an imperfect being and his will is imperfect and falls into fallible judgment at times. This imperfection on man’s part is NO excuse to stop the exercise of moral good in life. Think about it.

 

[Dameedna]

For a Christian, God is in charge of what exactly?

Human beings are not in charge of this universe nor each other.

As an agnostic, I recognize this. I’m not in charge. I do not decide for another what they do…I can attempt to 'control" them, but I can’t.

As a christian, I believe people say that “we…humans are not in charge, we are not in control, god is”.

does that make sense?

 

[GuanYuWarGod]

Human beings are not in charge of this universe nor each other.

As an agnostic, I recognize this. I’m not in charge. I do not decide for another what they do…I can attempt to 'control" them, but I can’t.

As a christian, I believe people say that “we…humans are not in charge, we are not in control, god is”.

does that make sense?

1. Are you agnostic or Christian???

As a christian, I believe people say that “we…humans are not in charge, we are not in control, God is”.

Not quite. Humans are beings who inherently have a rational nature albeit exercised in varying degrees of perfection. Thus freedom and “being in charge” is an aspect of rational human’s faculty that is not perfect but the fact remains that yes, humans exercise control. They exercise this “control” over themselves but not other distinct beings who are metaphysically distinct from them and whose being is distinguishable from their own being. Here, man is in possession of the faculty of willing an event but not necessarily its desired outcome for man is imperfect. As such, God possesses as well a faculty of control. As a perfect being, his understaning of this control is a perfect understanding of control. A perfect understanding of this concept thus means that God cannot violate the metaphysical laws of being by “taking control” of another being’s being (and taking it as His) and faculty of will for this involves a contradiction of being and God is perfectly free from contradiction.

Humans exercise a certain control with regards to the universe. That is why there is history, a product of man’s actions on his environment. This control is a control that is limited and imperfect however. Yet, it remains that human beings DO have a certain control over events and proximate causes that trigger them. God as well as control and His is an Ultimate Cause of the Universe.

 

[GuanYuWarGod]

1. Are you agnostic or Christian???

As a christian, I believe people say that “we…humans are not in charge, we are not in control, God is”.

Not quite. Humans are beings who inherently have a rational nature albeit exercised in varying degrees of perfection. Thus freedom and “being in charge” is an aspect of rational human’s faculty that is not perfect but the fact remains that yes, humans exercise control. They exercise this “control” over themselves but not other distinct beings who are metaphysically distinct from them and whose being is distinguishable from their own being. Here, man is in possession of the faculty of willing an event but not necessarily its desired outcome for man is imperfect. As such, God possesses as well a faculty of control. As a perfect being, his understaning of this control is a perfect understanding of control. A perfect understanding of this concept thus means that God cannot violate the metaphysical laws of being by “taking control” of another being’s being (and taking it as His) and faculty of will for this involves a contradiction of being and God is perfectly free from contradiction.

Humans exercise a certain control with regards to the universe. That is why there is history, a product of man’s actions on his environment. This control is a control that is limited and imperfect however. Yet, it remains that human beings DO have a certain control over events and proximate causes that trigger them. God as well as control and His is an Ultimate Cause of the Universe.

 

[sanctamaria17]

Hey, I’m in college too and yes, there are times I have to deal with this too.

After games, the team usually has a party at one of the girls’ houses or apartments. Yes, it usually involves kegs and vulgar songs. What do I usually do?

If I’m really tired, I don’t go. If I do go, I refuse to drink or take part in the vulgar songs. The girls know that I refuse but they are completely fine with it. They know I have strong, Catholic values and respect that I’m willing to stand up for them. Also, another girl on the team is also Christian and refuses to take part in those activities so we tend to stick together. Girls have even apologized to me when they’ve gotten too vulgar. Basically, we’re all really crazy about our sport and that’s what we have in common. What someone believes is between them and God, at least that’s the general attitude on the team. People are more impressed by example than words any way and of course, praying for them helps too.

I’m also heavily involved in Christian and pro life groups on campus. It’s helped me find people of faith to whom I can turn when I need something. We have a wonderful priest on campus and I have friends who I go to Mass with, pray with, etc. I especially love getting lost in theological conversations with people, especially the guys b/c they always have interesting stuff to say. I also am friends with a lot of evangelical Christians, due to an interdenominational Christian club on campus. We build each other up and I’ve had opportunities to clarify the Church’s position on some issues. I also met a Catholic friend through this club and it turned out that he was the only one until he found out that I was as well, so it’s definitely provided an opportunity to witness.

I’ll be praying for you! Hope this helps!

 

[St_Gabriel]

I can see that you are in a very difficult situation. The problem is, is that many of these people that you are with probably weren’t catechised at all or very little. They are all at different levels in their spiritual journey, so you don’t want to overload them or they’ll just right you off as a religious nut and ignore anything that you try to teach them. What you might want to do, is to try to find out where they are in their journey so that you can find some common ground. Let them know where you stand on tops such as abortion and stuff as it comes up but don’t give them too much at one time. It may take years for the stuff to sink in (just plant some seeds) and they will come to you when they need advice. Keep yourself pure by taking part in the sacraments frequently. It’s going to be tough trying to evangelise all of them at once, but let the Holy Spirit do the work (he’s good at it ). It is quite the challenge. As St. Augustine said, “Rome wasn’t created in a day”. I’ll be praying for you.