Advice on encouraging my sons to attend Mass with the family?

[rbabs]

My wonderful sons, 18 and 12, still go to Mass each Sunday, but walk to the Catholic church in our neighborhood. The rest of us drive to the Catholic church 12 minutes away. Problem? The Church my sons walk to is rather “progressive” and I worry that the Eucharist is not licit, or valid, or both. The priest there has parishioners bake the communion bread in their homes each week, with a recipe that calls for honey. I am glad my boys go willingly to Mass but worry they’re not getting the full graces from a valid or licit Eucharist. How hard do I push for my boys to go with the rest of us? Or do I just sit happy that at least they’re going? Or is there no problem with “home-made” communion bread?

 

[jmcrae]

Your boys are at an age where it is good for them to go to Mass independently from the rest of the family - it is part of “trying their wings” in preparation for their adult life.

The real issue here is that the parish they attend may not have a valid Eucharist. If it were me, I would just start talking about it in conversation, and ask them what they think of it. Maybe they have not been catechized on why it is important to have valid matter for the bread.

Also, at the same time, have a conversation with the priest of that parish - tell him that you are happy that your sons seem to enjoy going to Mass at his parish, but that you are worried by the fact that they make home made bread instead of using what is provided by the Diocese. Perhaps he will then tell you that his recipe has received the approval of the Diocese, in which case it is most likely valid matter. (And it is also possible that he hasn’t thought of getting Diocescan approval, in which case you would be doing him a favour by mentioning to him that the Bishop has to approve the bread that he uses.)

 

[kage_ar]

18 year old, if not living under your roof, can decide to go to a illicit/invalid Mass. The 12 year old - you are the boss and he goes to mass where and when you say.

 

[Thomas63116]

My wonderful sons, 18 and 12, still go to Mass each Sunday, but walk to the Catholic church in our neighborhood. The rest of us drive to the Catholic church 12 minutes away. Problem? The Church my sons walk to is rather “progressive” and I worry that the Eucharist is not licit, or valid, or both. The priest there has parishioners bake the communion bread in their homes each week, with a recipe that calls for honey. I am glad my boys go willingly to Mass but worry they’re not getting the full graces from a valid or licit Eucharist. How hard do I push for my boys to go with the rest of us? Or do I just sit happy that at least they’re going? Or is there no problem with “home-made” communion bread?

Oh brother! I’ve never understood things like the home baked communion bread, but I’ve never gotten that upset about it either. It just seems silly to me.

Anyway, my best understanding is that it is probably valid, but not licit. The bread is still valid matter. I would guess that others can correct or confirm this understanding, and probably provide pages and pages of documentation from Vatican sources.

Personally, I would mostly be happy that they are going. I would be concerned about some of the abuses. Rather than “push” them to go with you, you might consider opening up a conversation with them about what is going on at the parish and how they feel about it.

 

[Lux_et_Tenebrae]

18 year old, if not living under your roof, can decide to go to a illicit/invalid Mass. The 12 year old - you are the boss and he goes to mass where and when you say.

Do you really think this is the best way to handle this situation? Better to discuss. If you use the “I’m the boss card” you may win the skirmish, but you’ll probably loose the war.

Lux

 

[kage_ar]

Do you really think this is the best way to handle this situation? Better to discuss. If you use the “I’m the boss card” you may win the skirmish, but you’ll probably loose the war.

Lux

With a twelve year old child - yes, this is the best way. Parents need to not be afraid to PARENT.

 

[aingil]

With a twelve year old child - yes, this is the best way. Parents need to not be afraid to PARENT.

Being a parent does not mean just pulling the boss card because you are the authority. It is about doing what is best for the particular child in the particular situation. If a child is reasonable and mature for their age, it is good to talk things through with them and give them some of the responsibility for the decision. Allowing them to learn about the process by which you go about making decisions is good for them. Pulling the boss card should wait until other methods have failed. Otherwise you aren’t parenting your child you are just bossing them…Parenting involves teaching and guiding…

 

[kage_ar]

Parenting involves teaching and guiding…

Yes, and you teach them that honey baked bread is illicit for use in Mass and you guide them to a real Catholic Mass.

You actually think a 12 year old, a kid in middle school, should be able to choose what Church to go to?

 

[jmcrae]

Yes, and you teach them that honey baked bread is illicit for use in Mass and you guide them to a real Catholic Mass.

Right - you have a conversation about it. You don’t just say “I am the boss and it’s my way or the highway, kid.”

You actually think a 12 year old, a kid in middle school, should be able to choose what Church to go to?

Not at all - but he is old enough to be told the reasons behind the decisions that are being made, and to share in the conversation about them.

 

[allhers]

…Yes, there are licit and valid recipes for Eucharistic bread to be used at Mass. Only wheat flour and water can be used and nothing else. The Byzantine and Orthodox churches add yeast to symbolize the Resurrection but they have always done this and it is VALID and LICIT for them to do so. Western (Latin Rite) Catholics are forbidden to use leavened bread. It would be ILLICIT but still VALID. Adding milk, honey, sugar, eggs, etc. would INVALIDATE the matter (bread)

(the above was answered by Fr. John Trigilio on 08-05-2004 on EWTN’s question and answers)

ewtn.com/vexperts/showresult.asp?RecNum=407542&Forums=0&Experts=0&Days=2004&Author=&Keyword=Valid+matter&pgnu=1&groupnum=0&record_bookmark=25&ORDER_BY_TXT=ORDER+BY+ReplyDate+DESC&start_at=

I wouldn’t want either of my sons to go there, explain to them why and kindly explain to the Pastor why too. Perhaps he doesn’t know. (If he doesn’t care, why would you want either of your sons to go there?)

 

[FastLearner]

If there is a parish with an invalid Eucharist, in your area, that’s a bigger issue than just your kids. First, you should probably go to speak with the priest to make sure you understand the situation correctly, then if you do, see if you can get it corrected. If there is a problem, and you correct it, you’re not just doing a good thing for your kids, but for everyone that attends Mass there. In addition, it’s a good way to teach your kids about the Eucharist. Then, once it’s been corrected, there’s no problem anymore, right? Or is there some other reason you don’t want them to attend there?

 

[Bluegoat]

…Yes, there are licit and valid recipes for Eucharistic bread to be used at Mass. Only wheat flour and water can be used and nothing else. The Byzantine and Orthodox churches add yeast to symbolize the Resurrection but they have always done this and it is VALID and LICIT for them to do so. Western (Latin Rite) Catholics are forbidden to use leavened bread. It would be ILLICIT but still VALID. Adding milk, honey, sugar, eggs, etc. would INVALIDATE the matter (bread)

(the above was answered by Fr. John Trigilio on 08-05-2004 on EWTN’s question and answers)

ewtn.com/vexperts/showresult.asp?RecNum=407542&Forums=0&Experts=0&Days=2004&Author=&Keyword=Valid+matter&pgnu=1&groupnum=0&record_bookmark=25&ORDER_BY_TXT=ORDER+BY+ReplyDate+DESC&start_at=

I wouldn’t want either of my sons to go there, explain to them why and kindly explain to the Pastor why too. Perhaps he doesn’t know. (If he doesn’t care, why would you want either of your sons to go there?)

Hmm. If Eastern Churches use leaven, then they would have to use a sugar of some kind, I would think?

 

[allhers]

Hmm. If Eastern Churches use leaven, then they would have to use a sugar of some kind, I would think?

Perhaps you missed this part?

The Byzantine and Orthodox churches add yeast to symbolize the Resurrection but they have always done this and it is VALID and LICIT for them to do so.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Hmm. If Eastern Churches use leaven, then they would have to use a sugar of some kind, I would think?

---

**You think wrongly.

No recipe for Prophora (as the Altar Bread is called) calls for any sweetener–sugar, honey, or anything else.

Usual recipe:

3 Cups flour
1 Tbs yeast
1 Cup water
Dash of Salt (Optional)

Frequently the yeast is started by mixing a bit of flour with the warmed water, and then sprinking the yeast on top. The yeast will soften, dissolve naturally, and soon go to work; you’ll have a foamy head on top when it’s ready.

Proportions will occasionally vary. There’s no bread as personal to the baker as Prosphora.**

 

[Bluegoat]

I see - so it wouldn’t be as puffy as Wonderbread then.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

My wonderful sons, 18 and 12, still go to Mass each Sunday, but walk to the Catholic church in our neighborhood. The rest of us drive to the Catholic church 12 minutes away. Problem? The Church my sons walk to is rather “progressive” and I worry that the Eucharist is not licit, or valid, or both. The priest there has parishioners bake the communion bread in their homes each week, with a recipe that calls for honey. I am glad my boys go willingly to Mass but worry they’re not getting the full graces from a valid or licit Eucharist. How hard do I push for my boys to go with the rest of us? Or do I just sit happy that at least they’re going? Or is there no problem with “home-made” communion bread?

I would first verify that I understood correctly what the recipe for the bread is and that it was truly provided by the priest. Then, based on what I learned, I would go speak to the priest about it. Asking him why he is using an invalid matter, if he truly is. Hopefully you will learn that the bread is perfectly licit and valid and all is well. If not, I would take the next steps of letting the bishop know for the well-being of all the other parishioners there.

Throughout all of this I would explain to my sons what I was worried about, why I was asking questions, and what the implication of an invalid matter is. I would also ask them why they wanted to attend this parish–because friends are there? Because they can sleep later and just rush over at the last minute? Their reasons for attending would definately be a subject for discussion. There may be simple changes that the family could make to accomodate them without disrupting everyone else. Perhaps attend Mass at a different time at the other parish, occasionally invite a friend along, or come home for lunch instead of going out.

 

[aingil]

Yes, and you teach them that honey baked bread is illicit for use in Mass and you guide them to a real Catholic Mass.

You actually think a 12 year old, a kid in middle school, should be able to choose what Church to go to?

No I don’t. My post didn’t say that. Since when does teaching and guiding mean letting them do their own thing?

 

[rbabs]

Thank you all for your advice. Yes, having good conversation with my boys is always a good route. I have mentioned to my boys that I have some concerns about how the Eucharist is treated at this particular parish and that I would prefer they attend with us. The 12 year old does occasionally join us but I think he does enjoy being his own Catholic “grownup” self. My 18 year old really just wants to be independent.
I will indeed ask the pastor about the communion bread; brilliant idea to direct my question to the source!

Peace in Christ!

 

[m134e5]

My wonderful sons, 18 and 12, still go to Mass each Sunday, but walk to the Catholic church in our neighborhood. The rest of us drive to the Catholic church 12 minutes away. Problem? The Church my sons walk to is rather “progressive” and I worry that the Eucharist is not licit, or valid, or both. The priest there has parishioners bake the communion bread in their homes each week, with a recipe that calls for honey. I am glad my boys go willingly to Mass but worry they’re not getting the full graces from a valid or licit Eucharist. How hard do I push for my boys to go with the rest of us? Or do I just sit happy that at least they’re going? Or is there no problem with “home-made” communion bread?

Putting honey in the altar bread is a grave sacrilige as it invalidates the Mass. There is no problem with home-baked altar breads if they are done properly.

 

[Timothysis]

Putting honey in the altar bread is a grave sacrilige as it invalidates the Mass. There is no problem with home-baked altar breads if they are done properly.

Agreed. The bishop should be notified of this at once. I cannot believe that more here have not responded in this manner. Canon law states that the host is to be made from pure, unbleached flour and water. Anything else is NOT valid matter, so no Eucharistic Sacrifice takes place. What is more important, that your so goes where he prefers with an invalid sacrament , or that he attends a licit, valid Mass? I hate to think what this priest does in the confessional.