Advice please - my dear friend has changed & strongly dislikes muslims

[Petaro]

Sorry, Jharek
I changed my post to go for greater irony.
Point taken about Hindu extremism.
I just don’t see that as much of a worldwide phenomenon, however bad it might be for the locals.

Be careful Hansard, the Americans do not understand irony. I have been told to use smiley symbols to clarify sarcasm. But Australian sardonic humour is best left off these threads.
Your point is too clearly made, but we must always remember what Christ taught about how we will be judged by our judgement of others. But I, like many others, find it hard to unclench the fist so easily.

 

[manualman]

This issue is a bit like an onion that changes back and forth the more layers you peel off.

Layer 1:
The casual ignoramus can be Islamophobic just from the way news is presented in most western countries. It almost makes it sound like every muslim has an AK-47 and is just waiting for the word to hit the street and commit mayhem. Nonsense, of course. Just like the news likes to make it sound like every catholic priest is a secret sexual abuser of little boys.

Layer 2:
One comes to reject layer 1 when actually meeting a decent muslim or two. Suddenly the person involves recognizes the distortion and comes to reject the stereotype of muslims as being all time-bomb jihadis. This realization is often accompanied by an uncritical characterization of ALL criticisms of Islam as “Islamophobic.” The uncritical assertion becomes one of “it’s just a coincidence that all the suicide bombers of recent decades have been muslim” and “there’s no hidden significance in the fact that religious minorities are persecuted to greater or lesser degrees in pretty much ALL majority muslim countries.” People don’t often actually THINK these quotes, they just refuse to consider them to demonstrate to themselves and others that they aren’t Layer 1 bigots.

Layer 3:
Separating Islam from Muslims. Muslims are people like anybody else, so they are basically good, but have a fallen nature. Thus, you’d expect that most of them you meet will be decent people at heart. But this tells us nothing about whether Islam itself has a net negative or net positive effect on the people who believe in it. Many who reach this layer come to the opinion that Islam contains some teachings of Mohammed that are in fact morally abominable. Most muslims find ways to step over those aspects and remain decent human beings. Some muslims become inclined to violence and barbarism and find in Islamic teachings ready encouragement to those inclinations. In any case, reaching this stage allows recognition of the dangers that Islam poses to Western civilization without resorting to bigotry against individual PEOPLE.

Layer 4: (Another CAF member has tried to explain this to me, but I may not get it quite right yet)
As Christians, we understand that Islamic teachings that contradict Christian teachings are simply not true. As such, Christians should not be involved in determining what “real” Islam is and should not opine that muslims who are trying to ‘spiritualize’ some of the violent and barbaric teachings of Mohammed are ‘inauthentic muslims.’ This approach posits that since Islam isn’t actually a divinely revealed religion, it can and should be allowed to evolve over time into something that more and more closely resembles Christianity. Raising alarms about Mohammed’s teachings undermines these Islamic reformers and gives undue religious credentials to jihadis.

Layer 5:
Mohammed actually encouraged his followers to use deception against infidels (that would be us) while the infidels were strong and the muslims weak. This begst he question: Are the “moderate muslims” who try to spiritualize the violent aspects of Islam genuine or are they merely pawns used to lull the west to inaction while the dar al Islam grows stronger? Yikes. Am I back to Layer 1 or is this a real thing? Some of the behavior of CAIR and certain observations of mosques in which the published English literature is sweetness and light while the imam’s Arabic verbal exhortations are venom and hate suggest that this might actually be another layer to the onion.

I’ve got no idea how many more layers might lurk in this thing. But for now, my approach is to treat muslims as individual human beings worthy of the presumption of decency. But the IDEAS that make up Islam as a religion are worthy of discussion and criticism, even in direct conversation with muslims.

I do think it would not be unreasonable to require would-be muslim immigrants to take a values pledge that repudiates mysoginism, endorses elected government, validates the idea of innate human rights and endorses the freedom of religion of ALL people (including the right of any adult to convert according to his own conscience). Anybody who balks at that ought not to be eligible to immigrate to a western country. If they want to enjoy the fruit of our values they should expect to live according to them.

 

[drac16]

Be patient with her. That’s the only way to overcome agitation-- with love. She’ll come around eventually; now when I say that she’ll ‘come around’, I am not saying that she’ll believe any different than what she believes now, but she’ll be more sober minded about it.

It’s just fear that’s arising out of her. It’s like when you shake a bottle of Coke and then open it; it sprays all over the place. Therefore, countering agitation with anger only leads to the agitation intensifying, which is not good for your friend (since this causes stress on your friend). The best way to deal with apprehension is with patience and love. It’s hard to do, but that’s what is necessary to overcome fear as deeply rooted as your friend’s fears. Those fears don’t go away overnight.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

Thank you to those who actually responded to my post especially Trish & Drac.

Padster you are a STAR. Your post was TRUTH and nothing but the TRUTH.

Thank you to all the others who posted although I actually wanted advice not a debate. I know she is wrong and on the path of hatred fed by misinformation.

I don’t care how much wrong Islam has inflicted upon the world, I’m with one of the posters on here who said he will bless and pray for those who wish harm on him.

 

[Augustine3]

Hi everyone,

What would you do if you have a dear friend of 15 years whose views have radicalised over the past year?

I moved to a country town less than a year ago. We caught up recently in the city and I could not believe what was coming out of her mouth.

She was saying some awful things about Muslims, that they are satanic and will take over Australia and the world and kill all of us if we don’t convert. It’s time for a crusade blah blah blah you get the drift. I was speechless and attempted to change the conversation. This tirade happened in more than 3 conversations during the space of a weekend.

My other half would just get up and leave the room without a word as if he was going to the toilet except he never returned. He said in private that he would not sit still and listen to that drivel.

She is a good friend and is due to visit us next weekend and I want to have a chat with her but unsure as how to bring up the topic. I don’t want her and my hubby to clash because they are both hotheaded.

I don’t want to lose her friendship. I suspect her new friends have influenced her. She has never espoused those views previously.

I’m really stressed because I don’t like ‘confrontation’. Any advice would be appreciated.

Your friend shouldn’t think of these radicals as murderers, but rather lost souls in need of prayer. It would please God if she prayed for them rather than condem them…

Why don’t you ask your friend to organise a vigil to pray for peace and conversion?

 

[Moro_Rock]

You have to admire Muslims. They are true to their faith. It is the non-attendance of many so-called Catholics that threatens the Christian Church, not Muslims. In fact, I want Islam rammed down their disbelieving throats at every opportunity. I want a mosque on every street corner so these so-called Catholics can complain that there is no church for them NOT to attend; no baptism charade for them to go through, or nice wedding venue for them to use (and abuse).

I mean, look at Islam. It’s brilliant. The Muslims haven’t watered down their faith like we have, yet it is the fastest growing religion on the planet. How did they manage that?

Best wishes,
Padster

Be aware that a mosque at every street corner will mean that you will be wakened
at 4.30 AM for prayers every morning . The mosque is likely to be built on higher ground than the surrounding houses and to have sound amplifiers on the
outside walls for the poor of hearing !

 

[Padster]

Be aware that a mosque at every street corner will mean that you will be wakened
at 4.30 AM for prayers every morning . The mosque is likely to be built on higher ground than the surrounding houses and to have sound amplifiers on the
outside walls for the poor of hearing !

Bring it on! These so-called Catholics need shaking up. In the godless sh*t-tip known as Britain, it was once against the law to be Catholic. You simply couldn’t be a Catholic unless you quite fancied playing a dangerous game of hide and seek with the authorities. Now that people are free to attend Mass, they don’t want to go. We are having to cut the number of weekend Masses down.

So yes. I want to hear Allahu Akbar blasting out at full volume every morning to remind these people of the void they have created.

Best wishes,
Padster

 

[Kal2012]

I live in SE Michigan which has the largest population of immigrants from the Middle East in America.

We get them all; Sunni, Shi’a, Chaldean Christians, secular, apparently Hezbollah has a presence in the area.

The Dearborn Public schools have changed their calendars to reflect the majority Muslim population in town. Hamtramack, which used to be Polish immigrants, is now Muslim immigrants and they do have the call to prayer (from what I understand) every day. We have a lot of Mosques in the area and people freak out every time there’s a plan to build a new one. We have social service brochures in both Spanish and Arabic.

The thing is that it’s complicated. Muslims aren’t all terrorists. And I tend to prefer having Muslim neighbors because some are better parents than native born parents.

Not sure I really have a point, but I’m just sharing that I don’t want the States to become like England or Australia where there is a more significant Islamic influence. A lot of people come to the West, but they don’t want to adopt Western culture.

 

[drac16]

Not sure I really have a point, but I’m just sharing that I don’t want the States to become like England or Australia where there is a more significant Islamic influence. A lot of people come to the West, but they don’t want to adopt Western culture.

Yeah, but can you blame them?

 

[cath4alltime]

Hi everyone,

What would you do if you have a dear friend of 15 years whose views have radicalised over the past year?

I moved to a country town less than a year ago. We caught up recently in the city and I could not believe what was coming out of her mouth.

She was saying some awful things about Muslims, that they are satanic and will take over Australia and the world and kill all of us if we don’t convert. It’s time for a crusade blah blah blah you get the drift. I was speechless and attempted to change the conversation. This tirade happened in more than 3 conversations during the space of a weekend.

My other half would just get up and leave the room without a word as if he was going to the toilet except he never returned. He said in private that he would not sit still and listen to that drivel.

She is a good friend and is due to visit us next weekend and I want to have a chat with her but unsure as how to bring up the topic. I don’t want her and my hubby to clash because they are both hotheaded.

I don’t want to lose her friendship. I suspect her new friends have influenced her. She has never espoused those views previously.

I’m really stressed because I don’t like ‘confrontation’. Any advice would be appreciated.

I agree with your friend, they are completely evil and pulling the wool over peoples eyes who think there are good muslim

 

[Hockeygurl]

1. For what reason does one have to call another person a fundamentalist? There was NEVER an ID of her religion… she could have been RC for all we know…(The F word has very negative meanings to some… so please refrain from name calling).
2. I understand her point of view… there have been MANY interviews of radical muslims who talk about having as many kids as they can so they can eventually overtake the west. Just look at the recent articles about british jihadists who went to Syria to fight. I read that one refuses to come back until the UK “flies under the Islamic flag”… (could find the article but I’m to lazy right now. )
3. Back maybe 8 years ago or so… there were TV interviews with some of the Iraqi people who stated that their mission was to end Christianity and take over the western world.
4. yes, this a voice of (maybe) the few, but how long does it take to learn from Hitler? It happens people and IF they wanted to they COULD hurt us. (we don’t know where a ton of nuclear weapons from Russia are… Iran? Syria? )
5. Healthy respect and fear never hurt anyone… and I think we have had enough evidence that we need to keep watch ( no crusade BTW) But we also need to be careful and definitely not let our guard down.
6. I have a good friend who is Muslim… Love him tons and he is definitely not radical. And that’s not how I view the majority of the group.
7. And last point (finally) is that the media tends to oversensationalize things to some extent… so we really need to be picky and discern what we listen to.