Advice Please - Wife Going Overboard

[TheRealJuliane]

Okay, so here’s my two cents, hope it helps.
I’m a stay-at-home mom too. There’s lots of time to think. Lots. You start thinking am I being a good enough mom for my kids, am I raising them right in this very messed up world. Being a woman, I can say this. Women like to be in control of situations. What is a stay-at-home moms one thing she’s supposed to get right, raising her kids. Everything else is boring and gets old. So you look at what’s important to you, your kids, how you want them raised. How you can control how and what they grow up to be. That’s not how you explain it to yourself, but that’s what it is. It does happen that we forget about our husbands. Honestly, because, I know for myself, I get so into what is going on with my kids. That’s what I do all day, it’s hard to switch gears. Honestly, right now, talking to a priest that you both trust is going to be your best bet. No offense to you, but if she’s anything like me, she’s only going to believe it coming from a priest. I’ve just been doing something like this lately, and so you’re actually helping me out too. I’ve just been looking and thinking about how sinful I am and getting more and more depressed about how awful I am, that what’s God going to do when I meet him face to face. Will they let me in? But what are the major themes in the bible, do not fear and we have a very forgiving God. But I digress. I hope this helps out.

This is an excellent point! I know I took my vocation as a mother VERY seriously, and felt that it was incumbent upon me to make sure that both of our sons were in the optimum educational environment for THEM, “raise up a child in the way he should go” sort of thing. And when I found the system of homeschooling that made sense to ME, I was determined to fit our life into it, even if there were heavy objections to it from my husband. I simply ignored those objections and proceeded full-steam ahead with MY plan. I had the best in mind, and my reasoning was sound in some ways. Just as the OP’s wife has points to her plan, that are valid. Yet the way she is going about this is wrong. I learnt my lesson - I hope the OP is able to get through to his wife soon, because it can damage a relationship when one of the spouses is so stubborn.

 

[fpt]

Some questions for discerning if she is on the wrong way concerning **the state of marriage, the state of wife, the state of mother, the state of couple, the state of husband, the state of father: **rights, obligations, duties about this state of conjugal life, about the state of life of family in the respect of the true catholic teaching without the wrong acceptions, the wrong mentalities, the ideologies and the heresies.

1.** The theoretical providentialism: ** theuniversityconcourse.com/article/1915.html

“NFP, while distinguishable from contraception in not being absolutely immoral, is seldom licit and always regrettable.”
“Most married couples (especially in the wealthy West) are perfectly capable of having large families, and most reasons cited for not having large families are bogus.”
“Couples who choose to have large families are making the religiously and morally superior choice.”
“Since selfishness is such a near and present danger, no one should practice NFP without first consulting a priest.”
“The following do not constitute valid reasons for using NFP: wanting to finish your education; wanting to save up for children’s future education; being tired; being stressed; being burdened by debt; having to move; having a small, crowded house; being depressed; feeling overwhelmed, etc."

Does she agree with the theoretical providentialism? If yes, she is wrong.

1. “The natural family regulation is a birth control sinful;”
   or
   “The Natural Family Planning is diabolical [Evil];”
   or
   “Getting married at age 40, what a shame to lose her virginity at this age” [because the fact of getting family is very limited, no large family];
   or
   “The natural family planning is a concession to the human weakness. The ideal is to have sex only when you are happy to have children.”
   or
   “The formal yes of the confessor is morally necessary for using the N.F.P.”

Does she agree with that? If yes, she is wrong.

Does she agree with the quiverfull movement? If yes, she is wrong.

 

[Evania]

Dear Evania,

After spending time with Susie, my wife was introduced to other women in Susie’s homeschooling club. My wife started to become less and less the woman I married and more like Susie and these other moms, who were extremely strict ** It is an issue, the strictism is wrong, also the extremely strictism is very wrong] **in their practice of the faith.

But, over time everything became Catholic this, the Church that, Jesus this, prayer that - and I got kind of sick of it. Sometimes I just want to take my wife out for a nice dinner and drinks and not talk about religion. Sometimes I want to laugh at a PG-13 joke (obviously no kids around.) Sometimes I like to sit down on a Saturday evening and have a beer. I liked my wife in a pair of jeans, but now she will only wear long skirts and frumpy blouses [The fact of dressing up herself like a nun] Her style of dress has changed 180 degrees and to be honest, it’s not very appealing to me. She went from a Nordstrom woman to a dumpy, overly modest sexless housewife in the time of about 3 months** [Victorian wife, puritan wife]**. Of course I have not used those words to describe her, I would never say that to her face - but I want you to get the idea.

She has now also said that she wants to cover her hair and only go to Latin Mass** a lack of trust the the Ordinary form of mass] **We used to go to the Latin mass a few times a year to keep the kids familiar with it, but it’s not my regular preference. None of our friends attend that Mass and it’s just not something I connect with as well as regular Mass. I don’t mind going once a month or so, but now all my wife talks about is how irreverent the regular mass is (It is a sign of lack of trust in this mass), how it should be more solemn and how it’s so tacky she can’t bear it any more. Our regular Mass is totally fine and our priest is great, I have no idea what she’s talking about except for that I know Susie et. al. won’t go there.

My wife also now refuses to take communion from anyone but the deacon or priest, and will literally walk over to another line if she sees that a eucharistic minister is distributing communion in our line when we do go to regular mass. It is so embarrassing and rude, especially since she takes the two oldest with her. She has also started wearing a scarf on her head at mass. I do not like this practice but I have said nothing about it because I like to pick my battles and I am not going to get into a fight about a square of fabric. But, lately, she has been talking about wearing a hair cover at all times (like a nun, muslim wife) and I am really not cool with that. If I wanted to marry a Jew or a menonite, I would have. I think it looks ridiculous and overly pious. She says it helps her show reverence for the Lord, but I think at the heart of it she just wants to seem holier than thou.

She dresses like a nun, wants to wear a hair cover all times… It is very … There is a problematic,

The poster also provided a link so you can see what his wife wears…The clothes aren’t nun habits. You are taking his quote on that too literally. There is nothing wrong with a head covering. Many women choose to wear them as a sign of respect during Mass. You provided an exhaustive list on how she would be wrong if she believes in random off topic things. The OP hasn’t mentioned anything about the quiverfull movement, NFP,
or anything about lacking intimacy with his wife. I don’t think it is beneficial to anyone on this forum to speculate on such matters.

 

[lynnvinc]

My wife has always been somewhat insecure and these are her choices. I think she has always had a problem with wanting to be the “best” or the “most” at things. Like, when she takes up a new hobby, it’s 100%. She was like this with coupons for a while, and then was like this with selling Mary Kay… It’s a thing she does that she does not do anything just a little or part time. It’s feast or famine.

That also sounds like me a bit, and I’m thinking it might be an issue of being the 1st child. I’ve noticed in families that often parents focus very very strongly on the first child, and by the time they get to the last one, they figure he or she will grow up without much (name removed by moderator)ut.

However, this has consequences for the 1st – they have to be perfect, etc. A lot of pressure.

 

[daledalton]

You have to share your feelings and thoughts with her. Girls need proper explanation and discussions.

 

[aspirant]

You have to share your feelings and thoughts with her. Girls need proper explanation and discussions.

The OP’s wife is a woman, not a girl.

 

[fpt]

The poster also provided a link so you can see what his wife wears…The clothes aren’t nun habits. You are taking his quote on that too literally. There is nothing wrong with a head covering. Many women choose to wear them as a sign of respect during Mass. You provided an exhaustive list on how she would be wrong if she believes in random off topic things. The OP hasn’t mentioned anything about the quiverfull movement, NFP,
or anything about lacking intimacy with his wife. I don’t think it is beneficial to anyone on this forum to speculate on such matters.

Do not be naive, there are links of religious and spiritual mentalities between the called traditional catholic movements, the fundamentalist catholics, the sedevacantists, the theoretical providentialism, the quiverfull movements, the fundamentalist protestants and evangelicals: about the ends of marriage, about the marital act of love, about the role of mother, about the role of father, about the role of wife, about the role of husband, about the higher education of girls and boys, about the female corporeity, about the male corporeity, about the female garments, about the male garments, the female sports, the male sports, about the alcool, about the equality and equity between male and female…etc. All those topics are linked, a strict new habit is the door opened on the other topics. Do not be naive.

But, lately, she has been talking about wearing a hair cover at all times??? The words “All the times” are the problematic, that could mean a lot.

liliesapparel.com/photoindex.html

neo-puritan garments, neo-victorian garments…etc. Does she want to stay catholic? This type of garments means a wrong reaction, it is a sign of a wrong road,** it is fundamentalism. I keep my idea, do not be naive, behind there are probably many deep issues.**

 

[JackieMom]

Maybe those dresses could be considered on the spectrum of “normal” in the midwest or somewhere… But in California you would absolutely be labeled as a member of the FLDS, a Menonite or in a costume. Even the sedes shop at regular department stores around here. My husband would keel over dead if I bought one of those outfits, and I don’t blame the OP one iota for finding them totally unappealing. And the full-time hair covering just seems like a plea for attention. OP - has your wife had a history of needing a lot of attention or reassurance?

 

[Evania]

Do not be naive, there are links of religious and spiritual mentalities between the called traditional catholic movements, the fundamentalist catholics, the sedevacantists, the theoretical providentialism, the quiverfull movements, the fundamentalist protestants and evangelicals: about the ends of marriage, about the marital act of love, about the role of mother, about the role of father, about the role of wife, about the role of husband, about the higher education of girls and boys, about the female corporeity, about the male corporeity, about the female garments, about the male garments, the female sports, the male sports, about the alcool, about the equality and equity between male and female…etc. All those topics are linked, a strict new habit is the door opened on the other topics. Do not be naive.

But, lately, she has been talking about wearing a hair cover at all times??? The words “All the times” are the problematic, that could mean a lot.

liliesapparel.com/photoindex.html

neo-puritan garments, neo-victorian garments…etc. Does she want to stay catholic? This type of garments means a wrong reaction, it is a sign of a wrong road,** it is fundamentalism. I keep my idea, do not be naive, behind there are probably many deep issues.**

I’m not being naive. However I do think that you are way too consumed in finding fault with this woman.

 

[kuppermom]

behind there are probably many deep issues.

Maybe you’re right, but honestly…when you stay at home… all day…with the kids…with no adult conversation…thinking. Then you meet some people that seem to have it all together, you start thinking, well maybe I’m doing things wrong. One thing leads to another…and here you go. Not everything has to be some “deep issue” somethings just get out of hand without you realizing it. I’m not saying your wrong, maybe there is. But sometimes doesn’t feel like in the society that we live in with lots and lots of dramatic tv. I feel like we are starting to over emphasize on things thinking there has to be more to something than there really is. I still vote having a sit down with a priest is the best route.

 

[cheezey]

Maybe you’re right, but honestly…when you stay at home… all day…with the kids…with no adult conversation…thinking. Then you meet some people that seem to have it all together, you start thinking, well maybe I’m doing things wrong. One thing leads to another…and here you go. Not everything has to be some “deep issue” somethings just get out of hand without you realizing it. I’m not saying your wrong, maybe there is. But sometimes doesn’t feel like in the society that we live in with lots and lots of dramatic tv. I feel like we are starting to over emphasize on things thinking there has to be more to something than there really is. I still vote having a sit down with a priest is the best route.

and then maybe a doctor…maybe.

 

[Evania]

Maybe those dresses could be considered on the spectrum of “normal” in the midwest or somewhere… But in California you would absolutely be labeled as a member of the FLDS, a Menonite or in a costume. Even the sedes shop at regular department stores around here. My husband would keel over dead if I bought one of those outfits, and I don’t blame the OP one iota for finding them totally unappealing. And the full-time hair covering just seems like a plea for attention. OP - has your wife had a history of needing a lot of attention or reassurance?

Ummm… Have you been to the Midwest? I’m pretty sure they dress the same as anyone else. The OP’s wife likes the outfits.

 

[floresco]

The OP’s wife likes the outfits.

So do I. Most of those dresses were things that I would like to wear. I thought they were really pretty.

 

[Xantippe]

“Maybe those dresses could be considered on the spectrum of “normal” in the midwest or somewhere… But in California you would absolutely be labeled as a member of the FLDS, a Menonite or in a costume. Even the sedes shop at regular department stores around here. My husband would keel over dead if I bought one of those outfits, and I don’t blame the OP one iota for finding them totally unappealing. And the full-time hair covering just seems like a plea for attention.”

The look is also very, very 1980s, which was not an unusually holy era, as I recall.

I think owning one or two would not be weird (especially for girls up to about 12 or in the less fashion-forward parts of the country), but it would look bizarre in a major metropolitan or coastal area of the country on an adult woman.

Modesty is relative to cultural norms. If our cultural norm was hot pants for every female from 12-90, wearing hot pants would be modest…in our culture.

 

[JackieMom]

Ummm… Have you been to the Midwest? I’m pretty sure they dress the same as anyone else. The OP’s wife likes the outfits.

Yes I’ve been. And the wardrobe choices of the women tend to be more conservative and less current than here in southern California.

There are ways to dress conservatively that aren’t a total turn-off to one’s husband and a renouncement of one’s sexuality. The OP said she used to dress more normally. I doubt her sense of style and taste made a radical change in such a short period of time.

 

[Kithrus]

I’m half wondering if this is my father posting from the past

My mother did EXACTLY what the OP is bringing up and all its brought my family is pain. she new has a son who hates her (me) a son who doesn’t want to come home to visit her unless he has to (my brother) and a daughter who is feeling torn between her two brothers and mom.

God did not call the average catholic to be hermits and not live in this world. when I was younger a very devote priest who was friends with my family warned me that our family was becoming ‘too holy’. Granted he admitted that wasn’t exactly what he was trying to say but I finally understand him now more then ever.

When a parent insist that the family has the collected knowledge of a 7 year theologian and to behave like a Cloister then there is a major problem. If your not called to be a priest you shouldn’t have to study like one. If your not called to live in a monestary you shouldn’t have to live like your in one.

I understand the world isn’t getting any better lately but (and this may shock you) it isn’t getting any worse either. Its just with modern media your becoming aware of the evil that used to be able to hide.

Hiding your family away is not the answer and it really boils me when traditional Catholics think its the only solution to survive the ‘end time’

Reality check, the end will come like a thief in the night. Be ready but not sitting in your back yard shaved head flogging yourself every night ready.

That’s called burying your talent and is the waste of the gift God gave you to give to the world because you’d rather sit at home reading your bible instead of living in the world a filling the destiny God made you for.

Go reread Matthew 25:14-30 then come back to me and tell me with a straight face that what the OP’s wife is doing is not invoking the very damnation she wants to avoid.

dashes into a small room and screams in blood curdling frustration

Okay I’m calm now…

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Please folks, let’s stop this discussion over the clothing! It doesn’t matter if you like the dresses and someone else doesn’t. The point here is that the changes are coming from one side of the spousal unit, being inflicted upon a home that was happy and the wife is now making the husband decidedly UNhappy.

Let’s wait to hear what his wife says.

 

[fpt]

Please folks, let’s stop this discussion over the clothing! It doesn’t matter if you like the dresses and someone else doesn’t. The point here is that the changes are coming from one side of the spousal unit, being inflicted upon a home that was happy and the wife is now making the husband decidedly UNhappy.

Let’s wait to hear what his wife says.

The unilateral new habit is the key. I am on the same line than you. The strong reaction via her unilateral changes is the problematic.

 

[Evania]

I would rather wear an ugly dress than demonstrate ugly behavior by judging a stranger harshly based on hearing only one side of a situation. Gosh, some of these comments are downright mean.

However, I’m glad to hear that the OP and his wife are working through these issues. Sounds like she’s willing to hear him out.

 

[Kithrus]

I would rather wear an ugly dress than demonstrate ugly behavior by judging a stranger harshly based on hearing only one side of a situation. Gosh, some of these comments are downright mean.

However, I’m glad to hear that the OP and his wife are working through these issues. Sounds like she’s willing to hear him out.

As much as i understand where your coming from saying that the husband/OP is not your standard bias other side of the argument.

As for how mean some of these posts get as the child now adult of this kind of story I promise you most of the comments are quite justified. This kind of thing rarely brings joy.