Advised against attending my first latin mass by a seminarian

[Shasta-Rose]

Also look for this booklet, which probably helps a lot.

Latin-English Booklet Missal For Praying the Traditional Mass.

Has the English and the Latin on opposite pages, so you can see what means what.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Some (not all) Latin Mass parishes will have this booklet available in the vestibule for people who don’t have their own missal. It’s a good little booklet.

 

[Patri]

But I’m surprised by all the condemnation in this thread. If you read all of my posts

I saw absolutely nothing wrong with your reply. You spoke of your experience which is very valid, more so for someone coming into the church. I too did not understand one or two replies you got. Keep posting and participating here.

 

[Fuerza]

Speaking for myself, your post implied that:

1. Catholics cannot learn the faith by attending and studying the TLM, as if all Latin-Rite Catholics were ignorant of their faith before 1970.
2. The EF is an “experience” in the Protestant sense of the word, when no one has used it that way.
3. That I somehow said it’s OK to be ignorant of the faith, simply because I don’t share your views. If you read my previous posts you would see that I included a link to a very informative website, and that I frequently provide resources for others to learn the faith.

You made it personal rather than seeking clarification after drawing an inference that is supported nowhere in my post. That’s the reason for my response.

 

[blackforest]

I am endlessly amazed by how many folks post here about clergy or laypersons who seem to oppose the Extraordinary Form.

I’m not hearing opposition to EF Masses. At all. Opposition doesn’t come in the form of "refrain from attending Latin Mass until . . . "

My only guess for this thread is that the OP is seeking validation from Catholic strangers to go against his advice. But validation is entirely unnecessary. @victorialauren check if out if you want to or wait a little if you want to.

Also, I’m sure I’ll get reamed for saying this, but it’s really no big deal either way. For one thing, there’s no hurry; Latin Mass isn’t on the endangered species list and will be there when you want to check it out. Also realize that this is a bit of a First World problem because there are only 588 TLM venus in the U.S, and you just happen to live hear one. God doesn’t care whether you attend EF or OF so long as you’re attending.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

there are only 588 TLM venus in the U.S, and you just happen to live hear one.

Just thought I would add a happy note to the thread after reading your post. I know you meant this comment as “there is only 588” but for me who has been through so many years without and remembers when you couldn’t find one anywhere, 588 sounds just pretty good. Shows it is growing in number.

 

[PetraG]

Someone in the RCIA team may also feel that the OP has plenty of fundamentals to learn without adding on the TLM. I wouldn’t subscribe to that, since I felt when I was a catechist that few things teach the Faith as well as a careful reading of the prayers of the Mass, if only the faithful are made aware of the riches that are packed in to it. It is a possibility, though.

 

[flamingpuppet]

But the extraordinary form mass is very different from the ordinary form, so I’m not sure that would really make a difference.

Pretty much what I was going to say. It’s a learning curve, but gloriously well worth the effort.

 

[flamingpuppet]

Another little benefit you’ll find in most parishes that offer the traditional Latin Mass–the Sacrament of Reconciliation before every Mass, every day. Be ready for some good spiritual counseling, too, especially from FSSP, Norbertines, etc.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

But, I humbly submit he was not wrong, in that he was asked for advice not for a canonical directive.

When asking for advice, it should be noted that what is received is an opinionated statement, and not an authoritative one.

The OP should attend if they want to, or not attend if that is their wish…Asking others here was probably a good approach, because now they have more opinions.

But clearly, the seminarians advice is not “just plain wrong” any more than any advice any of us give here is spot on.

I have debated for the past day or two whether this invites a response, but I think most people would agree that advice and opinions can be “right” or “wrong”, and that people of good will can legitimately disagree on where the “right” and “wrong” are found. I could “advise” someone to go run in traffic with scissors, or I could have the “opinion” that Pixy Stix are more nutritious than kale and quinoa. Both could fairly be challenged.

Back when there was the Latin Mass and only the Latin Mass, converts embraced the Faith by the millions, and didn’t suffer one bit. I really do not think that “Catholics in the pew” in the years before Vatican II sat there and sighed “ah, if only the Mass were in English, I’d like it so much better!”, no, they were told that the change needed to be made, and Catholics being what they were in those days, they simply obeyed. I studied the old Knights of Columbus pamphlets on the Mass, which were oriented towards the TLM (the Novus Ordo had only been introduced a few years before, and the KofC hadn’t yet updated their literature), before I ever even attended my first Mass. When I finally took my catechumen lessons, the priest assigned me the book Of Sacraments and Sacrifice by Fr Clifford Howell, a pre-Vatican II treatment of the Mass and sacraments, again, no harm done. Shortly after I came into the Faith — and I lived in an extremely liturgically conservative diocese — I got hold of Fr Stedman’s old My Sunday Missal, studied it, and asked “now precisely why did we get rid of this?”.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Be ready for some good spiritual counseling, too, especially from FSSP, Norbertines, etc.

Be ready for the possibility of big penances as well

That’s interesting if the Norbertines in your area are the TLM type. There is an abbey of them here that are very holy good men but are significantly left of center if you get my drift.

 

[Genesis315]

Personally, I think attending a traditional Latin Mass is a great way to expand one’s knowledge and foundation in the faith. In fact, it has been said foundation for most Catholics for most of the Church’s history.

I’d actually argue that stronger knowledge and foundation in the faith and the Church’s traditional rites is more important to the novus Ordo than vice versa. The traditional rite and the faith that permeates it were, presumably, the basis for the new rite, and obviously not the other way around.

Unfortunately, when the Mass was simplified in words and actions, a lot of the helps that reinforce the truths of the Mass were taken away. The old Mass communicated in not just its words, but also its actions, language, symbols, etc. what Mass is as understood by the Church. In addition, what the new Mass does communicate is often obscured by the manner it is usually celebrated, the usual music, vestments, etc. The new Mass is the same in substance, but much more knowledge, catechesis, and spiritual understanding is needed to “see it.” I know for me personally, I didn’t “get” what Mass really was until attending the old Latin Mass for a while. Now I can better see it in the new Mass and worship at it more fruitfully.

 

[augustinegirl]

Just to be clear, believing that the Church made a mistake in adopting the Novus Ordo does not logically lead to a rejection of the Church, or even of the Pope.

But…doesn’t the insistence that “the church made a mistake” in a council with the authority of the Church in matters of faith and morals - thus by Catholic teaching, led by the Holy Spirit - reveal some rejection of the Holy Spirit’s role in the Church? That’s how the logic reads to me, but perhaps there’s another way of explaining it (or at least I hope there is)

 

[Fuerza]

Not necessarily. The reforms called for by VII were much less extreme than what happened several years later in 1970. For many it’s the execution that was the problem, not the concept envisioned in Sacrosanctum Concilium.

 

[flamingpuppet]

Well the only ones I’ve encountered have been supply priests for a parish that offered both forms. They seemed very orthodox. But perhaps different chapters differ.

 

[Emeraldlady]

Not necessarily. The reforms called for by VII were much less extreme than what happened several years later in 1970. For many it’s the execution that was the problem, not the concept envisioned in Sacrosanctum Concilium.

But returning completely to the old Tridentine Mass rather than participating in the reform of the reform, seems counterproductive to what VII envisioned?

 

[Fuerza]

I never advocated such a thing. Even though I would love a complete return to the EF and other traditional western liturgies, I recognize that many people would not be as enthusiastic. I think there is a middle ground, with a slightly more traditional version of the OF, in line with SC, while still allowing for celebration of the EF under Summorum Pontificum. That, however, is a completely different thread (one which has come up before, and usually ends in fighting).

I also think that, alternatively, some reforms could be worked into the EF (slightly expanded use of the vernacular, more options for the people to respond, etc.), but that again is another thread.

 

[victorialauren]

That is very helpful to know! My RCIA program does no include group ‘practical’ experiences, it resembles an online course, with an actual session every 4 weeks.

I would be interested to see how other RCIA programs have been run in other parishes

 

[PetraG]

I never advocated such a thing. Even though I would love a complete return to the EF and other traditional western liturgies, I recognize that many people would not be as enthusiastic. I think there is a middle ground, with a slightly more traditional version of the OF, in line with SC, while still allowing for celebration of the EF under Summorum Pontificum. That, however, is a completely different thread (one which has come up before, and usually ends in fighting).

I also think that, alternatively, some reforms could be worked into the EF (slightly expanded use of the vernacular, more options for the people to respond, etc.), but that again is another thread.

The Extraordinary Form is just fine in the forms that existed prior to Vatican II. Knowing that you are participating in the Mass in a way that is as close to the way it had been offered for centuries is an irreplaceable experience. I realize that yes, it did change over the centuries, but I mean I would not introduce forms not already in existence in the past.

I’d say a new Catholic ought to be fully conversant in the OF because, well, it is the Ordinary Form and the one most likely to be encountered on travels and so on. Having said that, any Catholic who would rather attend only EF Masses ought to feel free to do that, if that can be arranged.

 

[victorialauren]

Thank you so much for your prayers, it means an incredible amount to me , God Bless