Advocates want birth control separated from abortion laws

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Pax tecum!

These people keep themselves ignorant so that they can continue to support abortion. I remember debating a woman on another site on the issue of abortion. Everytime I made an argument she either said, “Nope, that’s not true” (and refused to give any information as to why it wasn’t) or she just called me a liar and again refused to give any information as to why. These people don’t want to know the truth. All they want to do is keep killing babies in the name of “choice” or “reproductive freedom” because it is empowering for them to be able to do something with “their own bodies” that no *man *can tell them what to do. It makes me sick. 😦

In Christ,
Rand
 
There is no reliable evidence that the Pill prevents implantation. The claims that it does are based on studies from the 1970s that suggested the Pill causes changes in the endometrium that could prevent implantation, but recent research doesn’t support this.

I posted two studies a few days ago that showed no post-fertilization effect from the Pill. I have yet to see anyone post a peer-reviewed, scientific study that shows that the Pill prevents implantation.
 
Any sort of post-fertilization effect from the Pill is far from a proven fact. I would be interested if someone were to post a link to a peer-reviewed, scientific study showing that the Pill prevents implantation.

A few days ago, I posted two links to studies that showed no post-fertilization effects from these contraceptives.
 
A few days ago, I posted two links to studies that showed no post-fertilization effects from these contraceptives
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These studies are showing the effects of ECs; therefore, this can’t be applied to POPs (Progestin Only Pills) or COCs (combined OCs).

There is no direct evidence that the pill prevents fertilization, but the the changes in the endometrium are documented. Once ovulation occurs, we don’t know what may happen to the endometrium. The endometrium may be receptive. Who knows? The contraceptive effect of the changes in the endometrium is hypothetical/theoretical.
 
Fair enough. I was a little sloppy with my previous post.

The problem I see around here is that people seem so certain that the Pill is an abortifacient that they never stop to evaluate the evidence. The fact is that there is no direct evidence that the Pill prevents implantation.

I freely admit it’s a possibliity and that changes in the endometrium do occur in non-ovulatory cycles. However, according to this paper, if ovulation does occur, it’s not certain that the endometrium is inhospitable:
In an ovulatory pill cycle, the estrogen and progesterone levels are, as discussed below, grossly increased for the seven days prior to implantation. The normal biologic response of endometrium to high levels of these hormones is growth of stroma, blood vessels, glands, and glandular secretions to help prepare the lining for implantation.
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Fair enough. I was a little sloppy with my previous post.
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The problem I see around here is that people seem so certain that the Pill is an abortifacient that they never stop to evaluate the evidence. The fact is that there is no direct evidence that the Pill prevents implantation.
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I freely admit it’s a possibliity and that changes in the endometrium do occur in non-ovulatory cycles. However, according to this paper, if ovulation does occur, it’s not certain that the endometrium is inhospitable:
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I believe you and I agree. I often find posts that seem to imply the pill is an absolute abortifacient. It is a potential abortifacient, which is still important information.

As I stated in my previous post, once ovulation occurs, we don’t know what may happen to the endometrium. The endometrium may be receptive.
 
astegallrnc said:
I believe you and I agree. I often find posts that seem to imply the pill is an absolute abortifacient. It is a potential abortifacient, which is still important information.

As I stated in my previous post, once ovulation occurs, we don’t know what may happen to the endometrium. The endometrium may be receptive.
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Let’s face it; the truth is beginning to gnaw away at their hardened hearts, which makes me think that sooner or later their house of cards will collapse … completely.
 
I don’t understand why abortion advocates call contraception “contraception” if it does not always prevent a women from concieving. They are the ones who want to have a double standard it seems.
 
matt1985 said:
I don’t understand why abortion advocates call contraception “contraception” if it does not always prevent a women from concieving.
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  1. One can be okay with contraception and not be an abortion advocate. Many people who are against abortion don’t have a problem with contraceptives.
  2. Something can be a contraceptive even if it doesn’t prevent conception 100% of the time. I think that something that is 98% effective can still be properly called a contraceptive.
(Please don’t misinterpret my posts here as being supportive of contraception. I don’t reject the Church’s teaching on contraception.)
 
matt1985 said:
I don’t understand why abortion advocates call contraception “contraception” if it does not always prevent a women from concieving. They are the ones who want to have a double standard it seems.
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‘Contra’ means ‘against’, not ‘100% effective prevention’.
 
Who knows? They may never learn. Either that or they just don’t care. :mad:
 
bones_IV said:
When is it ever going to be the day they finally admit that when the pill, or other birth control agent, acts to prevent the embryonic child from implantating in the womb, that action is abortion? Some people just never learn. :mad:
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Most of us don’t know the facts. I never knew that one of the effects of birth control pills prevents implantation until it heard it on Catholic Radio.

We are a confused society because we have turned away from God.

Take notice! Protestants will avoid this thread like the plague.

I have a Baptist friend who himself isn’t quite sure when life begins. **He’s not quite sure! **Baptists are usually THE most reliable group with the opinion that life begins at conception. But even some of these folks are struggling.

Actually, the debate about separation of abortion and birth control is a good opportunity to help people understand the abortificient effects of birth control pills.

Once that door is opened, its a little easier to drag people through the nfp door.
 
Benedictus said:
Any sort of post-fertilization effect from the Pill is far from a proven fact. I would be interested if someone were to post a link to a peer-reviewed, scientific study showing that the Pill prevents implantation.

A few days ago, I posted two links to studies that showed no post-fertilization effects from these contraceptives.
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Wow…
You say you accept the Church’s teachings, but here you are, the advocate of The Pill…
So what if you don’t force your wife to take the pill? In your mind, you’re defending that industry that has done so much damage to our society… And God cares GREATLY what you think.
We don’t need any studies to just SEE for ourselves what it has done to the world.

The fact remains… The Pill is an artificial drug that keeps you from having babies. (whether there are studies or not. All you have to do is SEE.)
If you want to be blind, then you might reconsider how strong is your commitment to the Church, because your statements are quite disturbing.
Specially the message you are trying to give to the youth.
 
Benedictus said:
Any sort of post-fertilization effect from the Pill is far from a proven fact. I would be interested if someone were to post a link to a peer-reviewed, scientific study showing that the Pill prevents implantation.

A few days ago, I posted two links to studies that showed no post-fertilization effects from these contraceptives.
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Perhaps you don’t recognize abortion as a violation of human rights.
 
I didn’t interpret Benedictus as an advocate of the pill but rather presenting the facts about the pill.
 
astegallrnc said:
I didn’t interpret Benedictus as an advocate of the pill but rather presenting the facts about the pill.
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Thank you.

To everyone else reading this:

I am 100% opposed to abortion. I accept the Church’s teaching on contraception.

I believe we need to be as accurate as possible when discussing issues surrounding abortion and contraception. If research supports abortifacient effects of the pill, then we should make that known to everyone we can. If there is little or no evidence to support abortifacient effects from the pill, then we shouldn’t claim that the pill is an abortifacient.
 
Creating a distinction between actual versus potential affects is pointless from a moral standpoint. If you know something may potentially result in a gravely immoral outcome, it should be avoided just the same as something that you know will cause a gravely immoral outcome.

I have heard people say the pill causes abortion, others that it potentially causes abortion, still others prefer to say it may potentially cause a miscarriage. It really doesn’t matter, if any of those 3 are correct, then it is really the same thing. In any of those three cases, it still contributes to the death of a child.
 
Creating a distinction between actual versus potential affects is pointless from a moral standpoint. If you know something may potentially result in a gravely immoral outcome, it should be avoided just the same as something that you know will cause a gravely immoral outcome.

I have heard people say the pill causes abortion, others that it potentially causes abortion, still others prefer to say it may potentially cause a miscarriage. It really doesn’t matter, if any of those 3 are correct, then it is really the same thing. In any of those three cases, it still contributes to the death of a child.
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The pill is immoral whether it causes early abortion or not. Church teaching regarding contraception is clear.

With that said, I prefer accurate information. It is not an absolute fact that the pill is an abortifacient. If there is direct evidence, I am eager to read it.

The effects on the endometrium may prevent implantation; however, this may not occur and so no it would not contribute to the death of a child. Would this make the pill acceptable? No.

I am not sure why a potential abortifacient would be perceived less grave.

No problem Benedictus. It is troubling that your loyalty to Church teachings was questioned.
 
Benedictus is right: If the pill does not kill embryos between fertilization and implantation, we cannot lie and pretend it does simply because we know that contraception is evil. I want to destroy contraception and abortion with nothing but the truth, and if Benedictus is right and there is no real research-based data that suggests chemical contraceptives cause abortions, then I’m not going to claim they do.

God bless.
 
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