Aerial Toll Houses

[SteveVH]

All the reasonable sources deny such “toll stations” as gnostic clap-trap. It could be straight out of the ancient Egyptian book of the dead. The peasant folk took a liking to the silly superstition as they tended to in Roman Catholicism as well. Among the simpler, uneducated folk, fear and terrifying tales of punishment were or are strong deterrents to immorality.

Ok. Now I’m really confused. Purgatory is a Catholic doctrine. Are you telling me that 'toll stations" are not Orthodox doctrine? If not, is there an official EO doctrine concerning this issue?

 

[Per_Crucem]

Ok. Now I’m really confused. Purgatory is a Catholic doctrine. Are you telling me that 'toll stations" are not Orthodox doctrine? If not, is there an official EO doctrine concerning this issue?

It’s not doctrine, no. If I were to point to a Catholic equivalent, it would be the theory of Limbo (except that it has much stronger patristic support).

 

[Per_Crucem]

But it brings up another. What about those who die in a state of grace, yet are imperfect? Do you believe in any sort of purification process before entering heaven?

Thanks again.

Steve

Yes, it’s theosis. The dead in Christ will continually be purified as they grow closer to the image of Christ. However, it’s not a separate state of existence apart from paradise and it doesn’t involve punishment (which I know the Latin Church has moved away from as well). It’s part of growing closer to the face of God.

 

[PatrickC]

Ok. Now I’m really confused. Purgatory is a Catholic doctrine. Are you telling me that 'toll stations" are not Orthodox doctrine? If not, is there an official EO doctrine concerning this issue?

An official doctrine? Not really, no.

 

[PatrickC]

Obviously I’m one of those who doesn’t believe in the concept at all. Some do.

 

[SteveVH]

Yes, it’s theosis. The dead in Christ will continually be purified as they grow closer to the image of Christ. However, it’s not a separate state of existence apart from paradise and it doesn’t involve punishment (which I know the Latin Church has moved away from as well). It’s part of growing closer to the face of God.

Okay. If you are equating paradise with heaven, then my question would be how can someone who still needs to be purified enter into the gates of heaven? Are you saying that there are impure souls in heaven who are going through a process? Doesn’t purgatory make better sense?

As far as the punishment thing goes, I have never understood purgatory to be a place of punishment. It will be a place of some anguish but this is due to the realization of the degree to which we have offended God. So some will suffer more than others.

Peace.

Steve

 

[Per_Crucem]

Okay. If you are equating paradise with heaven, then my question would be how can someone who still needs to be purified enter into the gates of heaven? Are you saying that there are impure souls in heaven who are going through a process? Doesn’t purgatory make better sense?

I want to address this in a longer post, Steve. Suffice it to say that the categories your church uses to formulate purgatory are foreign to Eastern thought.

As far as the punishment thing goes, I have never understood purgatory to be a place of punishment. It will be a place of some anguish but this is due to the realization of the degree to which we have offended God. So some will suffer more than others.

Peace.

Steve

But the two churches haven’t talked about the subject since the Council of Florence. The imagery used for purgatory at that point in history are very different than what they are now.

 

[SteveVH]

I want to address this in a longer post, Steve. Suffice it to say that the categories your church uses to formulate purgatory are foreign to Eastern thought.

Very well.

But the two churches haven’t talked about the subject since the Council of Florence. The imagery used for purgatory at that point in history are very different than what they are now.

I suppose, since “Aerial Toll Houses” is not a doctrine of the Orthodox Church it probably isn’t high on the priority list.

I am aware of the some of the imagery that has been used in the past. But how does one convey the pain we will feel for our offenses, once we have had a glimpse of God? It is likened unto burning flames, many times, but this still does not translate into punishment. The pain we feel is not imposed by God. It is pain of our own making.

Peace.

Steve

 

[czarlazar]

There is alot in the EOC that is not doctrine.