Affectionate father

[mom4truth]

What I meant by a “fine line” is that at the age of 21 yrs old, UNKNOWINGLY, a daughter OR father may feel some kind of physical/sexual attraction - this is not perverse but merely a normal physical reaction to the opposite sex. That is why I say don’t do it - lie next to your father on the sofa??? Give me a break!!! People are only human - moms, dads, sons, daughters. If my 19 yr. old daughter were to lie stretched out on the couch with her dad (which he wouldn’t do) I’d be keeping a close eye on the situation. As far as our culture: I meant in the U.S. I don’t think I can be much clearer than that. I don’t think it’s acceptable, in general, to display such behavior. In European countries it may be acceptable because they are more accepting in explicit sexuality in general. How do I know this? I have many relatives in Europe and have seen it. I’ve been there, too. It’s everywhere. Just my humble opinion.

 

[smallcat]

As far as our culture: I meant in the U.S. I don’t think I can be much clearer than that. I don’t think it’s acceptable, in general, to display such behavior. In European countries it may be acceptable because they are more accepting in explicit sexuality in general.

I think you need to re-evaluate this statment and re-evaluate what other cultures might or might not really be like. Yes, in Europe they are sadly more accepting of nudity and explicit sexuality. This is NOT what I meant by “culture”. My 90 yo Greek grandfather is physically affectionate like my dad was, and believe me, when he grew up in Greece in the early 20th century, European culture was nothing like it is now. He is scandalized by what he sees on TV. What I meant is that some cultures- particularly Middle Eastern or mediterranean ones-- are in general more comfortable with physical expression of innoncent, platonic, non-sexual love and friendship. There are no sexual overtones. This may be hard to understand if you’ve never seen physical affection this way, but it is true. Have you ever been at a big Greek party? The men are all sweaty and dancing with each other and there’s constant touching and hugging and kissing.

What I meant by a “fine line” is that at the age of 21 yrs old, UNKNOWINGLY, a daughter OR father may feel some kind of physical/sexual attraction - this is not perverse but merely a normal physical reaction to the opposite sex

I don’t know much about biology, but I can’t imagine myself ever feeling some kind of physical attraction toward my father, or any of my uncles for that matter. Just because you would never think of being so physically close to your father doesn’t mean that it is somehow morally wrong to do so. Please don’t assume the worst about families you might see doing this-- chance are they’re simply very loving, affectionate families.

 

[mom4truth]

Well we’re not talking about your grandfather’s generation are we? I think the original OP was of THIS generation (21) and in the US. So - I think YOU need to reevaluate your explanation. As far as the sexual aspect - I wouldn’t think that a daughter would have those kinds of feelings for her father. But, I suppose it could happen. Innocently. That’s why I’d never cross the “line”. O.K.? JMHO.

 

[yellowbird]

What I would’ve given for some affection from my father at that age! I think those of you who had that sort of relationship with your fathers were truly blessed.

I am the mother of teenage son and I don’t think we’d lie on the couch together. Sit yes - hug, kiss on the cheek - yes. Sometimes he’ll be sitting on his bed reading or whatever and I’ll flop down on the end of the bed to talk to him - but that’s about it.

 

[Lucania]

That is why I say don’t do it - lie next to your father on the sofa??? Give me a break!!! People are only human - moms, dads, sons, daughters. If my 19 yr. old daughter were to lie stretched out on the couch with her dad (which he wouldn’t do) I’d be keeping a close eye on the situation.

You say people are only human, but what you are describing is animal behavior. I find your logic as described in the above paragraph as paranoid & really weird. :twocents:

 

[ecp007]

Well we’re not talking about your grandfather’s generation are we? I think the original OP was of THIS generation (21) and in the US. So - I think YOU need to reevaluate your explanation. As far as the sexual aspect - I wouldn’t think that a daughter would have those kinds of feelings for her father. But, I suppose it could happen. Innocently. That’s why I’d never cross the “line”. O.K.? JMHO.

This reminds me of another post regarding someone who touched someone else on the shoulder to get their attention to talk.

Touching and closeness is cultural. And in case you haven’t noticed the US is very culturally diverse. I was born and raised in Miami, FL and the culture there is very Hispanic. People contantly kiss and hug each other at any age, any gender, and almost any relationship from father / daughter to just recent acquaintance.

I like feeling warm and close to people. (I am an American (of Cuban descent) married woman). I have an 11 year old boy, and I often lay down in bed with him to read and pray at night. We hug in bed. I can’t imagine a time when this would not be appropriate. My husband does the same with my 5 year old daughter. I can’t imagine EVER being suspicious of my husband and his affection to my daughter.

Now, I don’t think he would spoon with her when she was 21… the the OP already said that wasn’t the case.

I remember I had a boyfriend in Miami who was 20 and his brother was 22. They were always hugging their mom. She would sit on the couch and they would lie down with their head in her lap, or sit next to her with their head on her shoulder. It was a beautiful family. I try to model my family after theirs.

 

[mom4truth]

I don’t think what I said was WEIRD at all - I beg your pardon! I thought the OP said that the 21 yr. older lied flat out on the sofa with her dad. Why would a girl of that age sprawl out next to her father and why would the father allow it? Sure, I can see hugging/kissing your kids of either sex up to a certain again - and lying in bed with them. But when they GROW UP, I think it’s time to stop that close bodily contact. If you’re not - that’s what I call WEIRD. By the way, I as my 19 yr. old daughter and husband if they would ever do that. They both looked at each other, then at me, and went EEEEEWWW!

Take that!

 

[KCtheMommy]

As daughters get older there need to be different boundaries. The same is true for mothers and sons. There is a difference between affection and what you described. I am speaking as a daughter, a mother, and a child and family therapist.

I agree with you 100%. I experienced an uncomfortable experience as a grown, married woman with my dad. It may have meant simply nothing to me at 19, or at 9, but at 27 it wasn’t right. It’s not as though my dad was being sexual, or anything like it, but it was most certainly inappropriate and uncomfortable to ME. The story being I have a terrible back, and I had just fixed a huge Thanksgiving dinner at dad’s for him and his girlfriend, as well as my sis and her family. I had my two kids, but my DH was deployed. I laid down on the floor saying “arghhh my back is killing me” and dad came over and gave me a good old back rub. Nothing sexual, again, or even sensual, and it was over clothes, also in front of everyone, but I felt really creepy about it. That’s the only way to describe it. I know I’ll always be his little girl, but in my mind I am DH’s girl, so dad’s affection was not appropriate.

Same goes with mother’s and son’s. We have a member of the family who is in his 60’s. For ten years he dated a lady (throughout his late forties and fifties) who had two children. He often confided how uncomfortable and creeped-out he was by the affection she gave to only her son. Both kids were adopted, and now I don’t know what that has to do with anything – but he mentions it, maybe trying to right it in his mind? So this mom does get overtly affectionate with her son often, and said family member says it wasn’t right, it was too sexual or sensual for mother/son contact. There was no cultural sensibilities to explain it away. However, the son was not married, but then again well into his late teens early twenties – so who knows. I guess maybe more of the creep factor being she would be that affectionate to only the boy, and the girl she would barely acknowledge.

I think as children grow and change in many ways our acceptable affections shrink.

 

[smallcat]

OK, I can’t believe I’m getting into the fray with this again, but…

Why would a girl of that age sprawl out next to her father and why would the father allow it?

This is what I (and a few others here) are saying-- it’s normal in some families! Why would we do it? Because it’s affectionate. Because we love our dads and they love us. Why would you give your grown son a hug and a kiss when you see him? Same reason!

By the way, I as my 19 yr. old daughter and husband if they would ever do that. They both looked at each other, then at me, and went EEEEEWWW!

This doesn’t prove anything. When I first served DH and his sister a dish traditional to my father’s family, complete with organ meats and intestines, he and his sister looked at each other, then at me, and went EEEEEEEWWW! Why? They weren’t used to it. It was new to them. It made them uncomfortable. They weren’t used to thinking of organ meats as edible. Does that mean eating tripe soup or haggus or fried chicken hearts is immoral?

 

[ecp007]

This doesn’t prove anything. When I first served DH and his sister a dish traditional to my father’s family, complete with organ meats and intestines, he and his sister looked at each other, then at me, and went EEEEEEEWWW! Why? They weren’t used to it. It was new to them. It made them uncomfortable. They weren’t used to thinking of organ meats as edible. Does that mean eating tripe soup or haggus or fried chicken hearts is immoral?

great point!

 

[mom4truth]

smallcat:

I don’t think you can even BEGIN to compare eating Tripe to lying flat out on the sofa with your father (if you’re the daughter). I mean - there’s not a heck of a lot of room on a sofa!!! I don’t see how they could be doing anything other than spooning. Did the father have his hands straight down against his body or behind him? Did the daughter have her arms around the dad? It’s just not appropriate. I wouldn’t lie down with my son on the sofa either (he’s 16). He wouldn’t even want me to. While I think it’s great to be affectionate (parents with children/children with parents), there is a line that needs to be drawn at a certain age. I don’t think my idea on this subject is weird or twisted in any way, either. JMHO.

 

[deb1]

I was wondering if anyone can answer the appropriateness (sp) of a Dad lying on sofa watching television or sitting and having his 19 or 21 year old daughter lie down or snuggle next to him There is nothing strange going on between them (there are 2 different daughters in question )…just wondering if it is ok

I don’t see this as automatically wrong, but I seem to be in the minority on this thread.

I think that it depends on the family and its history as to whether this is appropriate behavior. If the dad has crossed other boundary lines, like walking in when his daughters are dressing or treating them like surrogate wives, then yes the activity the OP describes is inappropriate. But if this is just an affectionate man, then no it isn’t inapprorpriate. We are all commenting on a single post without enough information for any of us to make any type of decision either way.

 

[deb1]

smallcat:

I don’t think you can even BEGIN to compare eating Tripe to lying flat out on the sofa with your father (if you’re the daughter). I mean - there’s not a heck of a lot of room on a sofa!!! I don’t see how they could be doing anything other than spooning. Did the father have his hands straight down against his body or behind him? Did the daughter have her arms around the dad? It’s just not appropriate. I wouldn’t lie down with my son on the sofa either (he’s 16). He wouldn’t even want me to. While I think it’s great to be affectionate (parents with children/children with parents), there is a line that needs to be drawn at a certain age. I don’t think my idea on this subject is weird or twisted in any way, either. JMHO.

I am from the south and I know a lot of girls who are very affectionate toward their dads here. Unless the Op gives us more information we don’t know if this is a cultural issue or something more.

 

[ecp007]

smallcat:
I don’t think you can even BEGIN to compare eating Tripe to lying flat out on the sofa with your father (if you’re the daughter). I mean - there’s not a heck of a lot of room on a sofa!!! I don’t see how they could be doing anything other than spooning. Did the father have his hands straight down against his body or behind him? Did the daughter have her arms around the dad? It’s just not appropriate. I wouldn’t lie down with my son on the sofa either (he’s 16). He wouldn’t even want me to. While I think it’s great to be affectionate (parents with children/children with parents), there is a line that needs to be drawn at a certain age. I don’t think my idea on this subject is weird or twisted in any way, either. JMHO.

Mom4Truth, please see the note from the OP below:

I hope I didn’t make it sound like they are actually having “full body contact” if they lay on the couch…it is more like he is lying down and one of the girls may be half sitting, lying close to him…he may even be dead asleep…I think they just like to be close…the whole family is affectionate…All in all, from the variety of answers, I would have to say they are just a loving happy group…thanks to all of you again…

We are not talking about spooning here… just physical closeness. The appropriateness of which, as has been said before, depends upon the culture and customs of the family in question.

 

[Lovemyfaith]

We just came home from my friend’s house. Her sofa is HUGE with foot rests that come up from the bottom. Her husband was stretched out with his feet up and her 17 year old had a pillow propped up leaning on her dad while she was stretched out laying across the sofa. They were watching a movie and the dad would pull the pillow up at all the scary parts (half joking but I think it worked that she didn’t see them!)
There was a big gang there for Memorial day and not one person remarked that it was odd for a dad and daughter to sit close to each other. I thought it was sweet that the dad was protecting her. I know this family very well. These days the daughter could have been out raising heck with other teenagers and the fact that she was hanging with her family and friends should give you a clue that she is a really nice kid. I think her dad would be pretty hurt to think anyone would think there was something wrong with him sitting with his daughter watching a movie.

 

[Wammy101]

I am 52 years old. Our 27 year old married DD came over last night after work. She was tired, & after talking to us (her Father & I) about the day’s events she promptly curled up on her Father’s lap in his recliner. We are a very close family & have never held back on showing affection. She is libel to lay on the couch with either her Father or I on any given occasion. It’s always been that way & I actually never gave it a second thought because it is natural for us. She will always be" our little girl’ &" Daddy’s little girl" no matter what age! My Dear Father died when I was almost 12. I was his “Princess.” What I wouldn’t do to be able to sit on his lap and snuggle, a place where I always felt safe, secure & loved. I find it very weird that some find it inappropriate. Affection does not always equal sexual .

Agreed.
I still hug my dad alot, and i still remember txting him when i was bored in class during highschool
Family’s are made to be close and loving.
The fact that people second guess a father and daughter lying together just speaks as to where their minds are at.
personally me and my dad dont watch alot of TV together, so i never really did stuff like that, but he always gave me piggybacks (even during my pudgy stage ) and hugs and stuff all through adolescents.
I find it weird that people find family affection weird…
I have got to stop drinking coffee…

 

[Katie1723]

… If my 19 yr. old daughter were to lie stretched out on the couch with her dad (which he wouldn’t do) I’d be keeping a close eye on the situation…

Why is that? You don’t trust them?

Kathy

 

[mom4truth]

Katie:

You must be a youngster. I just know that people are all too human. My daughter would find it uncomfortable and so would my husband. Where do you get off saying I don’t trust them? You don’t know me or my family. I don’t think you’ve lived much - from that short post you’ve made, but hey, what do I know? I’ve run out of things to say to defend my position, so I’ll just let it go now. For all of you who think it’s o.k., good luck. It may be o.k. for you - fine. I, personally, don’t find it permissible. That’s all folks!

And may the Good Lord Bless Us All!!!

 

[deb1]

Katie:

You must be a youngster. I just know that people are all too human. My daughter would find it uncomfortable and so would my husband. Where do you get off saying I don’t trust them? You don’t know me or my family. I don’t think you’ve lived much - from that short post you’ve made, but hey, what do I know? I’ve run out of things to say to defend my position, so I’ll just let it go now. For all of you who think it’s o.k., good luck. It may be o.k. for you - fine. I, personally, don’t find it permissible. That’s all folks!

And may the Good Lord Bless Us All!!!

I looked up Katie’s profile. She is thirteen years older then me.

I think that different families have different levels of physical affection that they are comfortable with. What might be out of place in one family, is not in another.

I understand your concern. There are some parents who do overstep boundaries with their children. We can’t know though if that is the case in this situation. There hasn’t been enough information given.

Laying next to your daughter or snuggling the opposite sex child does not automatically mean possible sex abuse. You would have to look at the bigger picture of the family’s overall dynamics to decide that.

 

[Lucania]

Katie:

You must be a youngster. I just know that people are all too human. My daughter would find it uncomfortable and so would my husband. Where do you get off saying I don’t trust them? You don’t know me or my family. I don’t think you’ve lived much - from that short post you’ve made, but hey, what do I know?/quote]

I think you were unfair to Katie. She asked a legitimate question given the words you used. If that’s not what you meant, maybe you should choose your words more wisely.