Affordable Health Care is a Christian Act

[Cristiano]

…How is socialized medicine Christian?

There are some forms of socialized medicine that could be really Christian. I would hesitate to say that everything that is socialized is not Christian. A great example of socialized life is the life or religious people or at a secular level we have the example of Nomadelfia, the community funded in Italy in the 1930’s. We just must remember that “socialized” does not always imply “socialist policies” and it does not imply universal.

 

[Nate13]

There are some forms of socialized medicine that could be really Christian. I would hesitate to say that everything that is socialized is not Christian. A great example of socialized life is the life or religious people or at a secular level we have the example of Nomadelfia, the community funded in Italy in the 1930’s. We just must remember that “socialized” does not always imply “socialist policies” and it does not imply universal.

I would consider that to be like a self-insured religious community here in the U.S. Insurance in general would be “socialized” by your definition. When these kind of policies are taken upon by the federal government they then become “socialist policies”.

 

[Cristiano]

…When these kind of policies are taken upon by the federal government they then become “socialist policies”.

I disagree with you on this point, that is not always true. Sometime government social policies can be the only reasonable approach, that it is one of the reasons why we have a government to start with. Here I am using a general definition of government and I am not referring to the US federal system.

 

[Nate13]

I disagree with you on this point, that is not always true. Sometime government social policies can be the only reasonable approach, that it is one of the reasons why we have a government to start with. Here I am using a general definition of government and I am not referring to the US federal system.

Yes, my bad you are correct. National defense would be the prime example. It would make no sense for every State to have its own form of national defense. The qualifier we use to know when such federal programs are necessary though, is that its not possible for the states or another form of local government to do it or would do so in a very ineffective way. Considering Obama is using Massachusetts model as the model for Obamacare that works it would seem he is saying that health insurance at the State level is completely possible. Thus there is no grounds for a higher form of government to come in where the State government or an even lower form of government is perfectly capable of performing the duty.

 

[medaroge]

Here’s an example of the utter nonsense that goes on. This person was initially receiving treatments at $6,000 a pop from a private doctor. Once Medicare kicked in, this person had to be treated at a hospital. What was the cost for the same treatment? $33,000.

Yup. Also, many co-pay assist groups only help out if you are *not *on a government funded plan (they know the gov. will pay full price!).

 

[Cristiano]

…Thus there is no grounds for a higher form of government to come in where the State government or an even lower form of government is perfectly capable of performing the duty.

Are you telling me that you do not like the idea of an absolute new world order?

 

[Nate13]

Are you telling me that you do not like the idea of an absolute new world order?

Do I get a number etched into my wrist so I can be identified at any time?

 

[Jerry_Miah]

:clapping:

Thank you CMatt25 and the others for your support.

CMatt25, I agree with you. I am tired of the debate. The right and wrong is so clear here, but our country seems to let unreasonable and extremist views control the debate until we are arguing absurdities. My European clients can’t believe it when I tell them that birth control has become a leading issue of the land, and they’re shocked that we have had no system to ensure access to affordable health care for everyone in the country. These were elementary steps to basic civilization that all other industrialized countries took long ago.

About the questions and criticisms concerning my original post, most of them can be answered if the poster would just reread my original post. There’s really no need for me to repeat it, except: Creating a system for universal health care access is in itself a humane act that would certainly qualify as Christian.

I’m thinking now of what Mother Teresa would have done if she had been offered the chance to stop the unnecessary, painful deaths of 45,000 people per year, to stop the suffering of the uncountable hundreds of thousands more who survive.

I would also direct the naysayers to this article about a woman who opposed “Obamacare”, changed her party affiliation from Democrat to Independent because of it – and then later publicly apologized to Obama after she got cancer and the Affordable Health Care Act was her "lifesaver — perhaps literally."

 

[Nate13]

Thank you CMatt25 and the others for your support.

CMatt25, I agree with you. I am tired of the debate.

Your right its about time we could move onto food justice!

“Do you like buying the food you want? Your so greedy and heartless! Here you are eating organic while this guy eats mac and cheese 7 times a week. The only solution is we all pay into a government food insurance program which then divvies out the money equally to all and appropriates it to different kinds of foods we are to buy. I mean heck, if we have a right to healthcare we sure as heck have a right to eat healthy don’t we?”

 

[Brendan]

"Cristiano:

There are some forms of socialized medicine that could be really Christian. I would hesitate to say that everything that is socialized is not Christian. A great example of socialized life is the life or religious people or at a secular level we have the example of Nomadelfia, the community funded in Italy in the 1930’s. We just must remember that “socialized” does not always imply “socialist policies” and it does not imply universal.

I would consider that to be like a self-insured religious community here in the U.S. Insurance in general would be “socialized” by your definition. When these kind of policies are taken upon by the federal government they then become “socialist policies”.

In a religious community, every donation is voluntary. I have yet to see a governmental program where that is the case.

When the ‘donations’ are coerced, when charity is no longer a voluntary act, then that is a radical departure from what happens in the religious life.

 

[Birdpreacher]

In a religious community, every donation is voluntary. I have yet to see a governmental program where that is the case.

When the ‘donations’ are coerced, when charity is no longer a voluntary act, then that is a radical departure from what happens in the religious life.

Yeah next thing you know the govt will start forcing people to fight in the wars

 

[severus68]

In a religious community, every donation is voluntary. I have yet to see a governmental program where that is the case.

When the ‘donations’ are coerced, when charity is no longer a voluntary act, then that is a radical departure from what happens in the religious life.

I think that is the basic wrong premise. Basic health care is a right which is owed to everyone. It is not charity.

 

[Nate13]

I think that is the basic wrong premise. Basic health care is a right which is owed to everyone. It is not charity.

Hmm well then food, water, clothing, and shelter would all be rights too would they not? Those would all come before healthcare at least in my book.

 

[kingofseoul]

The fact is we agree that there is a problem yet disagree on the solution. It seems to me that if you see a problem with the food situation we should handle it the same way you want to handle healthcare. We will all pay into a big pot of money and the government will breakdown how much money we can spend on each product and give out the same amount of money to everyone. This is essentially what you want it to do for healthcare.

I think we have a reasonable solution for food with food stamps and I’m asking you why we don’t use that same kind of system for those who don’t have healthcare? Why does the government have to take over everyone’s healthcare when its only something like 5-10% of the country that don’t have it? Why not set up a program for healthcare tied into the welfare/unemployment system so those without jobs and healthcare can get access to it?

This is why you have conservatives throwing a fit. There are a lot of different ways this problem could be approached and the liberals have just happened to pick the one that involves the most federal government (name removed by moderator)ut and makes 80% of the country dependent on the government that don’t need to be.

Also please stop demonizing conservatives as “not caring” just because we don’t agree with your way of trying to solve the problem.

Fist of all, I didn’t buy into your food analogy because I don’t see the same problem with food as I do with healthcare. I would venture to say that you don’t see a food problem either but wanted to make an example. I get that.

I never said conservatives don’t care. I only made one statement that there are people who are for healthcare reform as long as they don’t have to pay for anyone else’s healthcare. They may be conservative; they may be not.

I don’t see the cult of individualism as a conservative or liberal thing. But there are plenty of people in this country who are happy to get government benefits (medicare, etc.) but then fight to deny those same benefits to others.

I’ve lived in countries with government-run healthcare. It’s cheaper and the care just as good. The difference? I got an MRI done in South Korea for $350 and insurance didn’t cover it. How much is an MRI in the US even with insurance? $2,500?

Obama’s plan isn’t even close to government-run healthcare. I think a government-run plan is the best way to attain the Church’s goal of universal healthcare (affordable healthcare for all). But that’s just my opinion I mean, if there was an alternate plan that worked, I’m happy to listen. But before Obama’s plan, there was nothing. And I don’t forget that just a few years ago the Church supported Obama’s plan as long as it had an exemption. It seems the only alternative I ever hear is that “the system is fine”. But it’s not. And I think we all agree on that.

Here’s a link on the bishop’s view on healthcare (one I completely support):

old.usccb.org/sdwp/national/brochure1.pdf

 

[maryjk]

I’ve lived in countries with government-run healthcare. It’s cheaper and the care just as good. The difference? I got an MRI done in South Korea for $350 and insurance didn’t cover it. How much is an MRI in the US even with insurance? $2,500?

Mine was $175. Maybe you should learn a little about the health care in the US before you knock it.

 

[Nate13]

Fist of all, I didn’t buy into your food analogy because I don’t see the same problem with food as I do with healthcare. I would venture to say that you don’t see a food problem either but wanted to make an example. I get that.

You haven’t heard about the injustice? Don’t worry you will if you follow the liberal circles.

feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/hunger-facts/child-hunger-facts.aspx

Facts of Child Hunger in America

Nearly 14 million children are estimated to be served by Feeding America, over 3 million of which are ages 5 and under.
According to the USDA, over 16 million children lived in food insecure (low food security and very low food security) households in 2010.
20% or more of the child population in 40 states and D.C. lived in food insecure households in 2009. The District of Columbia (32.3%) and Oregon (29.2%) had the highest rates of children in households without consistent access to food.
In 2009, the top five states with the highest rate of food insecure children under 18 are the District of Columbia, Oregon, Arizona, Arkansas, & Texas. iii
In 2009, the top five states with the lowest rate of food insecure children under 18 are North Dakota, New Hampshire, Virginia, Maryland, & Massachusetts. iii
Proper nutrition is vital to the growth and development of children. 62 percent of client households with children under the age of 18 reported participating in the National School Lunch Program, but only 14 percent reported having a child participate in a summer feeding program that provides free food when school is out.i
54 percent of client households with children under the age of 3 participated in the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC).i
32 percent of pantries, 42 percent of kitchens, and 18 percent of shelters in the Feeding America network reported "many more children in the summer" being served by their programs.i
In 2010, 16.4 million or approximately 22 percent of children in the U.S. lived in poverty.
Research indicates that hungry children have do more poorly in school and have lower academic achievement because they are not well prepared for school and cannot concentrate.
In fiscal year 2009, 48 percent of all SNAP participants were children
During the 2010 federal fiscal year, 20.6 million low-income children received free or reduced-price meals through the National School Lunch Program. Unfortunately, just 2.3 million of these same income-eligible children participated in the Summer Food Service Program that same year.

It’s an epidemic out there! 20% of children live in food insecure households in America! Compare that to the 15.6% of American’s that don’t have health care. 8 million children without healthcare compared to 16 million children who are “food insecure”. What good does healthcare do them if they don’t have food? I think Obama is concentrating on the wrong problem. By these stats we should have got universal food insurance before we got universal healthcare.

How can you promote universal health care and not promote universal food insurance?

I never said conservatives don’t care. I only made one statement that there are people who are for healthcare reform as long as they don’t have to pay for anyone else’s healthcare. They may be conservative; they may be not.

Sure there are people out there like that. That position does not reflect the Republican position though.

I don’t see the cult of individualism as a conservative or liberal thing. But there are plenty of people in this country who are happy to get government benefits (medicare, etc.) but then fight to deny those same benefits to others.

I’m all for helping those in need, but universal health care is an obvious power grab that is unnecessary. The problem could be addressed in other ways.

 

[Nate13]

This has some interesting points.

health–savings–accounts.com/article-8-john.htm

et another myth is that although the United States spends more on health care, we don’t get more. That argument is often supported by pointing to life expectancy, which is not that much different among developed countries, and infant mortality, which is actually higher in the United States than it is in most other developed countries. What do we get for our money? The first thing we need to do is separate those phenomena that have little to do with health care from those that do. In the United States, life expectancy at birth for African American men is 68 years, while for Asian American men it’s 81 years. We find wide differences in life expectancy among women, too. Nobody thinks that those differences are due to the health care system. What, then, would we want to look at if we really wanted to compare the efficacy of health care systems? We would look at those conditions for which we know medical services can make a real difference. Among women who are diagnosed with breast cancer, only one fifth die in the United States, compared to one third in France and Germany, and almost half in the United Kingdom and New Zealand. Among men who are diagnosed with prostate cancer, fewer than one fifth die in the United States, compared to one fourth in Canada, almost half in France, and more than half in the United Kingdom.

 

[kingofseoul]

Mine was $175. Maybe you should learn a little about the health care in the US before you knock it.

Quite right. I keep forgetting that rates are different for everyone here.
My private insurance passes MRI payments to me unless I’m over my $10,000 deductible.

 

[Nate13]

Quite right. I keep forgetting that rates are different for everyone here.
My private insurance passes MRI payments to me unless I’m over my $10,000 deductible.

Whats preventing you from finding another provider and plan?

 

[kingofseoul]

You haven’t heard about the injustice? Don’t worry you will if you follow the liberal circles.

feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/hunger-facts/child-hunger-facts.aspx

It’s an epidemic out there! 20% of children live in food insecure households in America! Compare that to the 15.6% of American’s that don’t have health care. 8 million children without healthcare compared to 16 million children who are “food insecure”. What good does healthcare do them if they don’t have food? I think Obama is concentrating on the wrong problem. By these stats we should have got universal food insurance before we got universal healthcare.

How can you promote universal health care and not promote universal food insurance?

Because I don’t need to promote one first before I support the other. If I support one solution to one problem, it doesn’t mean I need to support a similar solution to another problem. There’s nothing in the handbook about that.

But I do agree with you that we should be trying to feed the hungry. That most certainly is a Christian value.

And you were right in an earlier post that food stamps had been one of the few really effective programs. I never thought about how we could expand the program, but maybe you have some idea about that?

I’m all for helping those in need, but universal health care is an obvious power grab that is unnecessary. The problem could be addressed in other ways.

As I said before, I support universal health care because it is the position of the Church. I think the Church is right on the money that all people should have affordable health care.
Hence,I agree with the OP’s title that affordable health care is a Christian act. But that’s not only my opinion, it’s the opinion of my Church.

And politics aside, I don’t think you disagree with me on that…only the method by which it is attainted. And if that’s your opinion, I totally respect that. I think it’s healthy (pardon the pun) to disagree on methods if we all have the same goal in mind.