Affordable Health Care is a Christian Act

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What I would like to see is the the ability to purchase insurance across state lines. That is currently prohibited. So if I find a policy that I like in Ohio, I cannot purchase that policy because I live in Michigan.

That would put the consumer more in the drivers seat.
Brendan, it would put the consumer in the same drivers seat as one who attends a state university in another state. They sometimes double or triple the tuition to out-of-staters.

But since states are the ultimate regulators of all insurance within their states, buying across state lines would probably require some federal oversight. This setup wouldn’t be any better than Obamacare, IMO.
 
There is a public option which conveniently gets overlooked. I personally know of two cases in which the patients needed a life-saving operation, received their surgeries paid for by the state, and are alive today.
What is that public option and why do you think it is overlooked?
 
What is that public option and why do you think it is overlooked?
socialsecurity.gov/policy/docs/statcomps/supplement/2011/medicaid.html for one. States have their own programs.

I think it is overlooked because it doesn’t fit the narrative that the nation’s health care system is “broken”. The word “broken” conjures up images of a mechanical device or system that doesn’t work at all. But how can it not be working at all when 85% of those surveyed say they are happy with what they have?
 
I have a feeling that you have some bad personal experience with insurance that has colored your view and you paint all employers and insurance companies with the same broad brush.

For example.

No, it’s not. My husband has had high blood pressure since he was a student. He has never been denied or limited in his insurance coverage from an employer. I started a new job when I was 4 month pregnant and they never said a word about it being a pre-existing condition. I have worked in HR for and with dozens of companies and never encountered a plan that had those kind of limitations. That’s not to say they don’t exist but it’s nowhere near an “automatic” denial.

In my whole life, I have never encountered a situation where the decision of how to treat something was determined by the insurance company. The only decision they make is what to pay for. The doctor regularly give me his recommendation and only AFTER we discuss the options, does he check on the insurance coverage. Of course cost goes into the final decision, as it should, but the determination on care is always mine. Not the doctors, not the insurance company’s – MINE.

With the Affordable Health Care act, as we face it now, many of those decisions will be made by the government. Why do you trust the government to make medical decisions but not your doctor or insurance company?
Well stated. In addition, in the Obamacare plan, decisions will be done by an appointed panel which will decide what and who gets things done. And nowhere does it say that this panel will constitute physicians or those in the medical field. I don’t think I want uninformed people decide for me. And as far as insurance goes, one of my daughters was prescribed a cardiac stress test by her family doctor. The insurance company turned it down. She was then referred to a cardiologist who ordered the test, and lo and behold, it was covered.
 
socialsecurity.gov/policy/docs/statcomps/supplement/2011/medicaid.html for one. States have their own programs.

I think it is overlooked because it doesn’t fit the narrative that the nation’s health care system is “broken”. The word “broken” conjures up images of a mechanical device or system that doesn’t work at all. But how can it not be working at all when 85% of those surveyed say they are happy with what they have?
Two things about Medicaid: One is you must lose all but $2000 in assets to qualify. The other is many doctors will not take Medicaid patients. So while it may not be “broken”, it is quite rickety.
 
Totalitarianism is NOT a Christian Act
The Affordable Health Care Act of 2010 is no more an act of totalitarianism then Medicare. In fact it is an act of mercy on the tens of millions of people who did not have access to health care and the tens of thousands of people who died each year because a truly totalitarian system locked them out. The love of money is the root of all evil (1 Tim 6:3-10) and those calling “Obama Care” totalitarianism do so because its costing them something, MONEY!. Being truly pro life will always cost you something. Jesus said that unless you deny yourself and take up your cross and follow HIM you are not worthy of HIM.

Pax Christi,

David
 
The Affordable Health Care Act of 2010 is…an act of mercy …
No, it isn’t. It was a choice made by those who (apparently) believed it would work and it was a choice opposed by those who felt it would not. It was an entirely prudential decision and is no more moral to support or oppose it.
The love of money is the root of all evil (1 Tim 6:3-10) and those calling “Obama Care” totalitarianism do so because its costing them something, MONEY!
Are you unfamiliar with the prohibition against judging people and of the obligation of charity in interpreting their actions? It is astonishing to me that those who are so quick to cite some scripture passage to support their insults are so oblivious to the fact that they are … merely insults.
Pax Christi
You’re joking, right?

Ender
 
The Affordable Health Care Act of 2010 is no more an act of totalitarianism then Medicare. In fact it is an act of mercy on the tens of millions of people who did not have access to health care and the tens of thousands of people who died each year because a truly totalitarian system locked them out. The love of money is the root of all evil (1 Tim 6:3-10) and those calling “Obama Care” totalitarianism do so because its costing them something, MONEY!. Being truly pro life will always cost you something. Jesus said that unless you deny yourself and take up your cross and follow HIM you are not worthy of HIM.

Pax Christi,

David
Except, of course, that nobody really knows what Obamacare will or won’t do for anyone. Nobody know what the premiums for a “non-subsidized” person will be. Nobody even knows what the net premium for a “subsidized” person will be. The people who passed Obamacare didn’t read it, and admitted that. Nobody, apparently, had any thought that Obamacare would result in Obama forcing Catholic institutions to pay for abortion and contraceptive coverage. But nobody other than a fool would think “mandated, no-co pay” contraceptive and abortifacient coverage will NOT be paid for through insurance premiums. And this government has, through obamacare, pretty much carte blance authority to mandate whatever it wants to mandate.

Obama didn’t want Obamacare, and even he admits there will be a large number who won’t be covered; 20 million or so.

Estimates of the net cost to the nation of Obamacare are all over the board. The only thing truly known is that it will be at least in the hundreds of billions, and that doesn’t count the increased premiums to the middle class portion that will get no subsidies, or even to the subsidized portion.

Nor does anybody know what the massive increase in the number now to be covered by Medicaid instead of private insurance will do for those with such coverage. Medical groups already limit the number of Medicaid people they will see. Where are all the new Medicaid recipients to go?

Nobody knows.

I think before anybody decrees that Obamacare is somehow a “Christian” response to healthcare needs, they need to answer all of those questions, and tell us how all of those problems are to be resolved.

Yes, and why is it “Christian” to provide no co-pay coverage for contraceptive and abortifacients to wealthy women? Obamacare does that, you know.
 
Regarding my “Two things about Medicaid: One is you must lose all but $2000 in assets to qualify. The other is many doctors will not take Medicaid patients. …”,
And why are these two statements the case?
I don’t know. I only mention them to refute your assertion that the existence of medicaid is proof that our current health system is not “broken” and that a viable public option already exists. I merely point out that the public option you refer to has serious limitations. Or did I misinterpret your posting #231?
 
…In fact it is an act of mercy on the tens of millions of people who did not have access to health care and the tens of thousands of people who died each year because a truly totalitarian system locked them out. …
Maybe they don’t have access because they have misplaced priorities like they didn’t study in school so they could get a good job that allows them to afford it. Maybe they would rather spend their money on RVs and home theaters with expensive satellite sports packages. What kind of social justice allows kids to throw away their only opportunity to be self-sufficient later in life?
 
Maybe they don’t have access because they have misplaced priorities like they didn’t study in school so they could get a good job that allows them to afford it. Maybe they would rather spend their money on RVs and home theaters with expensive satellite sports packages. What kind of social justice allows kids to throw away their only opportunity to be self-sufficient later in life?
Speculating on the moral deficiencies that lead the needy to be needy has long been the rationalization used by some who are materially blessed by God for why they are blessed in this way and others are not.
 
Speculating on the moral deficiencies that lead the needy to be needy has long been the rationalization used by some who are materially blessed by God for why they are blessed in this way and others are not.
How about answering my question, “What kind of social justice allows kids to throw away their only opportunity to be self-sufficient later in life?”

247:
Speculating on the moral deficiencies that lead the needy to be needy has long been the rationalization used by some who are materially blessed by God for why they are blessed in this way and others are not.
I was hoping you would say something like that. I think your entire justification [there is poverty out there, so let’s throw money at it to assuage my conscience] for redistributing wealth is just speculation, so I guess that makes us even.

243:
Regarding my “Two things about Medicaid: One is you must lose all but $2000 in assets to qualify. The other is many doctors will not take Medicaid patients. …”,

I don’t know. I only mention them to refute your assertion that the existence of medicaid is proof that our current health system is not “broken” and that a viable public option already exists. I merely point out that the public option you refer to has serious limitations. Or did I misinterpret your posting #231?
I would suggest you find out before advocating the destruction of a system that 85% of those polled say they are happy with.

Hint: The reason you don’t know is that you are refusing to face the fact that socialism has never worked in its whole history, and there is plenty of evidence for that. You might also research out why there are “serious limitations” to Medicaid. You might also read QUOD APOSTOLICI MUNERIS (On Socialism) Pope Leo XIII
ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/L13APOST.HTM

marymyheroine said in 231:
…I truly believe that there should be a Public Option for those who need it. I personally don’t, but I know that it would greatly help my daughter and her little family. …
Why should strangers be expected to pay for her daughter’s needs when marymyheroine and her daughter are not willing to themselves?
 
No one on this thread has addressed the core cause of the problem with medical care in the USA. The base reason for the problem is that the Physicians, with the AMA have a monopoly on medical care and all that is related to medical care.
The fact is that Medical Doctors can charge anything they like. Insurance Companies and Medicare can limit what they will pay a doctor, but the rest of the doctors fees are the responsibility of the patient. They get away with this by disguising their fees by calling them “facility usage fees” etc.
Part of the problem, especially amongst young doctors is the exhorbatent cost of their medical education. As an example, the tuition at a prominant medical school in the North East costs close to a million dollars. Newly graduated doctors are up to their eye balls in debt. Because of this, Interns at a major NYC teaching hospital are paid a minimum of $70,000 a year-so they can make payments on this debt.
Part of the problem is that the only people who can get into medical school are those acceptable to the doctors and the AMA. By limiting the number of people in their profession, the doctors can continue charging what they will.
Of course, the public has been fed a constant diet of pro-medical profession propaganda about the selfless doctor, constantly saving lives. Wake up, after a young doctor finishes his residency and goes into private practice, most work only 4 days a week. Many specialists who teach only practice medicine 1 or 2 days a week…while earning well over $100,000 a year.
These economic facts have spread into other medical professions such as Dentistry and Veterinary Medicine. Take your cat to the vet in NYC and it will cost as much as it does to take a child to the MD. Of course, the high cost of medical care has spread to the drug manufacturers and pharmacies. Why should doctors make all the money?
To date, all the laws, rules, and regulations by the Federal Government have done nothing to curb the costs of medical care. In fact, they have driven up the costs.
Until the Federal Government makes medical schools to have open admissions and controls the cost of a medical education and restricts the pricing of medical services, we are studk with the problem.
Socialized medicine and Federalized medical insurance is not the answer. That would just continue the problem and open up the Federal Treasury for the benefit of the few.
If the doctors don’t like it, what are they going to do, quit or go to Australia or Mexico?
 
No one on this thread has addressed the core cause of the problem with medical care in the USA. The base reason for the problem is that the Physicians, with the AMA have a monopoly on medical care and all that is related to medical care.
The fact is that Medical Doctors can charge anything they like. Insurance Companies and Medicare can limit what they will pay a doctor, but the rest of the doctors fees are the responsibility of the patient. They get away with this by disguising their fees by calling them “facility usage fees” etc.
Part of the problem, especially amongst young doctors is the exhorbatent cost of their medical education. As an example, the tuition at a prominant medical school in the North East costs close to a million dollars. Newly graduated doctors are up to their eye balls in debt. Because of this, Interns at a major NYC teaching hospital are paid a minimum of $70,000 a year-so they can make payments on this debt.
Part of the problem is that the only people who can get into medical school are those acceptable to the doctors and the AMA. By limiting the number of people in their profession, the doctors can continue charging what they will.
Of course, the public has been fed a constant diet of pro-medical profession propaganda about the selfless doctor, constantly saving lives. Wake up, after a young doctor finishes his residency and goes into private practice, most work only 4 days a week. Many specialists who teach only practice medicine 1 or 2 days a week…while earning well over $100,000 a year.
These economic facts have spread into other medical professions such as Dentistry and Veterinary Medicine. Take your cat to the vet in NYC and it will cost as much as it does to take a child to the MD. Of course, the high cost of medical care has spread to the drug manufacturers and pharmacies. Why should doctors make all the money?
To date, all the laws, rules, and regulations by the Federal Government have done nothing to curb the costs of medical care. In fact, they have driven up the costs.
Until the Federal Government makes medical schools to have open admissions and controls the cost of a medical education and restricts the pricing of medical services, we are studk with the problem.
Socialized medicine and Federalized medical insurance is not the answer. That would just continue the problem and open up the Federal Treasury for the benefit of the few.
If the doctors don’t like it, what are they going to do, quit or go to Australia or Mexico?
I agree with almost everything you said, though I think it’s entirely possible that “medical tourism” by the wealthy might well cause there to be clinics in places like Monterrey, with some of the very best American physicians in them. People fly from all over the U.S. to M.D. Anderson. It’s not all that much farther to Monterrey. Maybe even a new “medical city” with its own airport.

My only argument with you is that I think it’s much worse than you say. I could go on for a long time, but I’ll add a few things.

Something additional needs to be said about medical school admissions. By and large, medical schools are money losers. Graduate schools make up the shortfall. Additionally, the qualifications strangely set high value (ultimately) on mathematical ability. Perhaps it’s no accident that a recent study suggested that 30% of physicians have some level of Asperger’s. Meanwhile, there are a good number of NPs out there who can far outperform your average Family Medicine physician. Not enough, but most NP programs emphasize research and publication, which is just crazy. (It’s a Masters’ Degree, you see.)

Government skews costs in a number of ways, not the least being the “discounts” on Medicare and Medicaid reimbursement. That is going to get much worse, as Obamacare puts even more people on Medicaid and imposes insurance “mandates” for political purposes. (no co-pays for contraceptives and abortifacients for rich women? We’ll all pay for that unless we are women who want them, and even they will, indirectly.)
 
I was hoping you would say something like that. I think your entire justification [there is poverty out there, so let’s throw money at it to assuage my conscience] for redistributing wealth is just speculation, so I guess that makes us even.
I never claimed justification for any such thing. I just called you on your expression of Prosperity Theology.
I would suggest you find out before advocating the destruction of a system that 85% of those polled say they are happy with.
You must be confusing me with someone else. I didn’t advocate the destruction of Medicaid or anything else.
Hint: The reason you don’t know is that you are refusing to face the fact that socialism has never worked in its whole history, and there is plenty of evidence for that. You might also research out why there are “serious limitations” to Medicaid.
The reasons why Medicaid has these limitations are irrelevant to the point I was making, although I can see why it would be more convenient for you to deflect the discussion away from your outrageous statement that a viable public option already exists. Just admit that statement was inaccurate and I will go away. (unless you meant the statement sarcastically, in which case I understand completely.)
 
No one on this thread has addressed the core cause of the problem with medical care in the USA. The base reason for the problem is that the Physicians, with the AMA have a monopoly on medical care and all that is related to medical care.
The fact is that Medical Doctors can charge anything they like. Insurance Companies and Medicare can limit what they will pay a doctor, but the rest of the doctors fees are the responsibility of the patient. They get away with this by disguising their fees by calling them “facility usage fees” etc.
Part of the problem, especially amongst young doctors is the exhorbatent cost of their medical education. As an example, the tuition at a prominant medical school in the North East costs close to a million dollars. Newly graduated doctors are up to their eye balls in debt. Because of this, Interns at a major NYC teaching hospital are paid a minimum of $70,000 a year-so they can make payments on this debt.
Part of the problem is that the only people who can get into medical school are those acceptable to the doctors and the AMA. By limiting the number of people in their profession, the doctors can continue charging what they will.
Of course, the public has been fed a constant diet of pro-medical profession propaganda about the selfless doctor, constantly saving lives. Wake up, after a young doctor finishes his residency and goes into private practice, most work only 4 days a week. Many specialists who teach only practice medicine 1 or 2 days a week…while earning well over $100,000 a year.
These economic facts have spread into other medical professions such as Dentistry and Veterinary Medicine. Take your cat to the vet in NYC and it will cost as much as it does to take a child to the MD. Of course, the high cost of medical care has spread to the drug manufacturers and pharmacies. Why should doctors make all the money?
To date, all the laws, rules, and regulations by the Federal Government have done nothing to curb the costs of medical care. In fact, they have driven up the costs.
Until the Federal Government makes medical schools to have open admissions and controls the cost of a medical education and restricts the pricing of medical services, we are studk with the problem.
Socialized medicine and Federalized medical insurance is not the answer. That would just continue the problem and open up the Federal Treasury for the benefit of the few.
If the doctors don’t like it, what are they going to do, quit or go to Australia or Mexico?
Actually, I addressed it in post #207.
 
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