Afghan President pardons men convicted of bayonet gang rape

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Excerpts from article:
[
The Afghan president, Hamid Karzai, has pardoned three men who had been found guilty of gang raping a woman in the northern province of Samangan.
The woman, Sara, and her family found out about the pardon only when they saw the rapists back in their village.
“Everyone was shocked,” said Sara’s husband, Dilawar…
When showed copies of the presidential pardon and court papers, President Karzai’s spokesman, Hamayun Hamidzada, was visibly shocked and said that if the documents proved genuine, Mr Karzai would be “upset and appalled…”
Sara and Dilawar are again in hiding, having felt too vulnerable to stay in their village. Dilawar was prepared to discuss the case. In Afghanistan, speaking about rape means risking further dishonour, but when asked whether he minded Sara’s story being publicised, Dilawar said, “We’ve already lost our son, our honour, we’ve sold our land to pay for legal costs and we’ve lost our home – what else can we lose?”
](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...en-convicted-of-bayonet-gang-rape-907663.html)
Can Hamid Karzai be trusted? Afterall, everyone knows he’s merely a puppet. Musharaff (another puppet) is gone, and i think Hamid should be removed from office also. These people don’t take their work seriously.

Disagreeing with Muslims is one thing, but what an outrage and injustice for the Muslim victim and her family! :mad:
 
The problem with how the U.S. sticks its nose in Middle Eastern affairs is that we constantly get in bed with the wrong folks. Arming Saddam in the 1980’s backfired with WMD, training Bin Laden and creating Al Quaeda in the 1970’s and 80’s to create terror cells and IED’s agains the Soviets proved to be stupid, fomenting a military coup in Iran in the 1920’s through the CIA installing the Shah backfired later on, and Karzai as well as Musharraf have been blunders.

Stay out of the Middle East!!! Why can’t we learn that lesson? Radical Islam and the honor killings, all that stuff is just barbaric. We need to pray for these folks!
 
when will the middle east join the rest of the world?! i feel very sorry for the woman who did not get justice and now she has to hide.

i don’t think the middle east can be or will be changed. it might as well be
2008 b.c.e. there.
 
I truly hope the woman and her family gets the justice they deserve. Hamid can sack his military commanders for concealing facts but pardons rapists? I mean, c’mon! :rolleyes:
 
The problem with how the U.S. sticks its nose in Middle Eastern affairs is that we constantly get in bed with the wrong folks. Arming Saddam in the 1980’s backfired with WMD, training Bin Laden and creating Al Quaeda in the 1970’s and 80’s to create terror cells and IED’s agains the Soviets proved to be stupid, fomenting a military coup in Iran in the 1920’s through the CIA installing the Shah backfired later on, and Karzai as well as Musharraf have been blunders.

Stay out of the Middle East!!! Why can’t we learn that lesson? Radical Islam and the honor killings, all that stuff is just barbaric. We need to pray for these folks!
How can we NOT be involved in the Middle East? The region has enormous reserves of petroleum needed by ourselves and more by our allies (especially those in East Asia) to fuel our common interconnected economies. Like it or not, economic failures in Japan, Korea, and Western Europe threaten our own economic well-being at home. It is a vital national interest (and a matter of our own economic survival) to keep the flow of oil from the region steady and secure - if we want to maintain our own way of life.

Aside from the economic issues, many of those nations are becoming capable of producing/procuring weapons of mass destruction. Our presence over there (especially at sea in the Persian Gulf) serves as a deterrent and warning to rogue nations or terrorist groups that might decide to use these types of weapons against us. The media likes to report how vulnerable we are in the region, but never seems to report the converse of our seeming vulnerability - that we threaten the very survival (economic and political) of the nations that oppose our way of life. Our fear is that Middle East nations will cut off oil exports; their fear is that we will cut off their ability to sell oil (their primary means of generating revenue) AND their ability to import vital foodstuffs. Countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Oman can’t feed themselves - they have to sell oil to buy food. Currently, our ability to wreck their oil exporting and food importing infrastructure far outweighs any damage they can do to us - in a matter of hours we could bring the ability of nations like Iran to move oil and foodstuffs by land or sea to a standstill. Our presence in the area keeps that threat very real, and gives us leverage to counter any really overt and damaging actions they might contemplate taking against us.

As for getting “in bed” with the wrong people, what can you do when all choices are bad? Guided by the old (but mostly true) saw that “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” we held our nose and supported Saddam Hussein against Iran, Bin Laden against the Russians in Afghanistan, and Musharraf against the radical Pakistani Islamists. What were our options? To not support these former allies would have ceded control, power and influence to groups even more determined to damage our interests and threaten our citizens. That part of the world is too volatile and too important to complacently leave to the Iranians, Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, and other terrorist groups. Eventually, they would develop the means to attack us over in North America; if nothing else, 9/11 serves as a warning to that potential threat.

Do some radical Islamic factions have barbaric customs? You bet. Does our despair and distaste for their way of life justify us leaving the area? No way - they would eventually gather enough strength to threaten us here in the U.S. and around the world.

I do agree with you that we need to pray for these people.

Peace!
 
that was well said emerald coast. it doesn’t do any good to hide our heads in the sand like the ostrich.
 
The problem with how the U.S. sticks its nose in Middle Eastern affairs is that we constantly get in bed with the wrong folks. Arming Saddam in the 1980’s backfired with WMD, training Bin Laden and creating Al Quaeda in the 1970’s and 80’s to create terror cells and IED’s agains the Soviets proved to be stupid, fomenting a military coup in Iran in the 1920’s through the CIA installing the Shah backfired later on, and Karzai as well as Musharraf have been blunders.

Stay out of the Middle East!!! Why can’t we learn that lesson? Radical Islam and the honor killings, all that stuff is just barbaric. We need to pray for these folks!
Say what you will about Iraq, but we were justified going into Afghanistan.

Sometimes leaders of other countries (or our own) aren’t going to be perfect. Shocking, I know.
 
that was well said emerald coast. it doesn’t do any good to hide our heads in the sand like the ostrich.
We also can’t be the world’s police force either. It is our presence in Saudi Arabia that originally prompted Bin Ladin and his Saudi nutjob friends to start retaliations against the U.S. Our presence in that region is offensive to them, especially in Saudi. They view us as occupiers. I fail to see how an orthodox Catholic who follows the just war doctrines of the Church that go back to the time of Augustine can view military interventions all over the middle east as just and a great alternative to “burying our heads in the sand.”

Emerald is dead wrong about the enemy of my enemy is my friend philosophies. Saddam was a bad bad guy in the late 1970s all the way through to his execution. Hard to believe we jumped in bed with that guy. Arming a maniac to hold another maniac regime in check isn’t logical or moral IMO. Those WMD’s we gave good ole’ Saddam were used to wipe out the Kurds. Maybe burying our heads in the sand would’ve been prudent there!

And if we’d do like the Republicans are saying and drill for more oil HERE and find alternative fuel sources, we wouldn’t have to kiss arab behinds to get fossil fuels…

It’s amazing the arguments we’ll make in the name of some crude…
 
We also can’t be the world’s police force either. It is our presence in Saudi Arabia that originally prompted Bin Ladin and his Saudi nutjob friends to start retaliations against the U.S. Our presence in that region is offensive to them, especially in Saudi. They view us as occupiers. I fail to see how an orthodox Catholic who follows the just war doctrines of the Church that go back to the time of Augustine can view military interventions all over the middle east as just and a great alternative to “burying our heads in the sand.”

Emerald is dead wrong about the enemy of my enemy is my friend philosophies. Saddam was a bad bad guy in the late 1970s all the way through to his execution. Hard to believe we jumped in bed with that guy. Arming a maniac to hold another maniac regime in check isn’t logical or moral IMO. Those WMD’s we gave good ole’ Saddam were used to wipe out the Kurds. Maybe burying our heads in the sand would’ve been prudent there!

And if we’d do like the Republicans are saying and drill for more oil HERE and find alternative fuel sources, we wouldn’t have to kiss arab behinds to get fossil fuels…

It’s amazing the arguments we’ll make in the name of some crude…
Waving…

I am for off-shore drilling and finding alternative fuel sources–sign me up! What kind of gas prices are you finding in your next of the woods? We are about $3.59 here.
 
i don’t know if you saw the movie charlie wilson’s war about the guy from texas who managed to get a lot of money from our government to train and arm the army in afghanistan when they had been invaded by the russians.

i recommend this movie. with tom hanks and julia roberts.

anyhow, the government kept giving charlie wilson all the money he asked for.

eventually, the afghans did defeat the russians and they retreated. the russians lost after a long battle. well, i suppose there was still a lot of money left over in that country from when we were funding their army and i think that is how al qaeda was able to get started. yes, we trained bin laden,
but we were also trying to help them defeat russia. once russia left and how we ignored how al qaeda was becoming so strong, i don’t know. the 80’s were crazy times as the movie shows.

this world is upside down sometimes and i don’t have all the answers. i can’t explain the suffering. it is all politics and money and greed. and there is a lot of corruption. just look at all the money wasted here every 4 years for our presidential elections and political conventions.

i think if we have oil in our country we are stupid to be paying high prices to these middle east countries for their oil. we need to use our resources if we can.

the world is a dangerous place and we learned on 9/11 how quickly our lives can be turned upside down. look what happened in georgia recently. our allies are very important.

just be thankful you live in america and not in afghanistan.
 
How can we NOT be involved in the Middle East? The region has enormous reserves of petroleum needed by ourselves and more by our allies (especially those in East Asia) to fuel our common interconnected economies. Like it or not, economic failures in Japan, Korea, and Western Europe threaten our own economic well-being at home. It is a vital national interest (and a matter of our own economic survival) to keep the flow of oil from the region steady and secure - if we want to maintain our own way of life.

Aside from the economic issues, many of those nations are becoming capable of producing/procuring weapons of mass destruction. Our presence over there (especially at sea in the Persian Gulf) serves as a deterrent and warning to rogue nations or terrorist groups that might decide to use these types of weapons against us. The media likes to report how vulnerable we are in the region, but never seems to report the converse of our seeming vulnerability - that we threaten the very survival (economic and political) of the nations that oppose our way of life. Our fear is that Middle East nations will cut off oil exports; their fear is that we will cut off their ability to sell oil (their primary means of generating revenue) AND their ability to import vital foodstuffs. Countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Oman can’t feed themselves - they have to sell oil to buy food. Currently, our ability to wreck their oil exporting and food importing infrastructure far outweighs any damage they can do to us - in a matter of hours we could bring the ability of nations like Iran to move oil and foodstuffs by land or sea to a standstill. Our presence in the area keeps that threat very real, and gives us leverage to counter any really overt and damaging actions they might contemplate taking against us.

As for getting “in bed” with the wrong people, what can you do when all choices are bad? Guided by the old (but mostly true) saw that “the enemy of my enemy is my friend” we held our nose and supported Saddam Hussein against Iran, Bin Laden against the Russians in Afghanistan, and Musharraf against the radical Pakistani Islamists. What were our options? To not support these former allies would have ceded control, power and influence to groups even more determined to damage our interests and threaten our citizens. That part of the world is too volatile and too important to complacently leave to the Iranians, Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, and other terrorist groups. Eventually, they would develop the means to attack us over in North America; if nothing else, 9/11 serves as a warning to that potential threat.

Do some radical Islamic factions have barbaric customs? You bet. Does our despair and distaste for their way of life justify us leaving the area? No way - they would eventually gather enough strength to threaten us here in the U.S. and around the world.

I do agree with you that we need to pray for these people.

Peace!
And that is precisely why bin laden attacked you .

This argument looks sound on the surface and is violently destructive at core. The middle east doesnt ooppose your way of life , it opposes your meddling in its affairs.

keep on interfering and keep on fearing.
 
We also can’t be the world’s police force either. It is our presence in Saudi Arabia that originally prompted Bin Ladin and his Saudi nutjob friends to start retaliations against the U.S. Our presence in that region is offensive to them, especially in Saudi. They view us as occupiers. I fail to see how an orthodox Catholic who follows the just war doctrines of the Church that go back to the time of Augustine can view military interventions all over the middle east as just and a great alternative to “burying our heads in the sand.”

Emerald is dead wrong about the enemy of my enemy is my friend philosophies. Saddam was a bad bad guy in the late 1970s all the way through to his execution. Hard to believe we jumped in bed with that guy. Arming a maniac to hold another maniac regime in check isn’t logical or moral IMO. Those WMD’s we gave good ole’ Saddam were used to wipe out the Kurds. Maybe burying our heads in the sand would’ve been prudent there!

And if we’d do like the Republicans are saying and drill for more oil HERE and find alternative fuel sources, we wouldn’t have to kiss arab behinds to get fossil fuels…

It’s amazing the arguments we’ll make in the name of some crude…
i am an arab and a muslim , i have nothing against america in principle to stop selling oil to it ( if i was saudi ruler) . and no body has to kiss any body’s behind for that .

Teh summary of arab problems with america is as follows :

1- unjust support for israel over arab legitemate rights.

2- support and installing of dictatorships and talking democracy while only caring about its immediate interests no matter of ethics .

3-presence of troops on muslim or arab lands.

none of the above if abandoned gives rise to any remote threat to america or americas dominance. Infact america will come back once more to be loved by 300 million arabs and 1,3 billion muslims.

its just prejudice that blinds the truth.

meedo
 
Excerpts from article:
%between%
Can Hamid Karzai be trusted? Afterall, everyone knows he’s merely a puppet. Musharaff (another puppet) is gone, and i think Hamid should be removed from office also. These people don’t take their work seriously.

Disagreeing with Muslims is one thing, but what an outrage and injustice for the Muslim victim and her family! :mad:
btw hamid Karzai is an oil guy who was installed by the US.
 
i am an arab and a muslim , i have nothing against america in principle to stop selling oil to it ( if i was saudi ruler) . and no body has to kiss any body’s behind for that .

Teh summary of arab problems with america is as follows :

1- unjust support for israel over arab legitemate rights.

2- support and installing of dictatorships and talking democracy while only caring about its immediate interests no matter of ethics .

3-presence of troops on muslim or arab lands.
Why don’t the Muslim countries of the M.E come together to stop selling oil to “America the S_tan?” Do they even agree with one another? Get OAPEC to boot America out of the picture. In fact, get OAPEC to stop selling oil to the other countries that need it. Then you can do what you do best. Exhort,blackmail and play the victim.
 
Why don’t the Muslim countries of the M.E come together to stop selling oil to “America the S_tan?” Do they even agree with one another? Get OAPEC to boot America out of the picture. In fact, get OAPEC to stop selling oil to the other countries that need it. Then you can do what you do best. Exhort,blackmail and play the victim.
before you take me as your enemy try to rationalize a bit. We dont hate america nor what it stands for . and we dont blakmail nor exhort and we ARE victims in the 3 points that i have told you before. We have the good and the bad just like you do . dont let yourself be draw n by prejudice and dont let your faith as a catholic and our faith as muslims prohibit you from understanding that we have legitemate greiviances . I dont think of america as a satan nor does anybody that i know . Yes the foreign policy of america has a very bad image due to the points i mentioned but these things can be solved. imagine if they were , what reason would there be for dispute?

who told you we want to stop selling oil to america . do you think oil is a blessing ? do you think all arabs are swimming in seas of oil? one day it will go away . if we are not rid of these dictators that rule us by then then we will remain behind the advanced world .

any way , good luck with your thread , sadly you dont seem interested in honest answers .

bye
 
meedo,

i feel sorry for the middle easterners because i see all of the wealth from the oil going to a small group of people. if they could distribute the wealth from the oil and improve the infrastructures of the countries and improve the way of life for the people it would help. i see the opulenct lifestyle of the royalty and the dictators and yet i see the people very poor.

you have to understand, that we are only able to understand the middle east from the perspective given to us by the media. a majority of americans have never been to the middle east and probably will never get a chance to go.

so we are limited in the information we have as to what the average middle easterner thinks of the u.s. when we turn on the news and see thousands of people burning the american flag, or jumping on our flag or burning an effigy of george bush, the message seems pretty clear that these people hate us. average americans are over here working hard to earn a living and provide security for our families. how do you think we feel when we see images like that on our tv’s? even after 9/11 happened, you didn’t see people in the streets burning the flags of any middle eastern countries.
i hope someday, the life for the people in the middle eastern countries will improve. some of the countries are more advanced than the other. i am sure there are many intelligent and gifted people in the middle east that could be contributing to the arts, literture, cinema, medical, science and many other aspect of our worldwide culture, but they are being stifled.

the middle east to us is still some of a mystery. we don’t understand the thinking or the hate.

i don’t agree with the arab view of israel either. israel is one little country and there are so many arab countries with so much land and resources. and yet, you want to destroy israel. i don’t get it.
 
meedo, please don’t think of me as a hickey (i’m not from America anyway). I do have Muslim friends who are dear to me. Contrary to your beliefs, not all Christians agree with US’ foreign policy or cheer every time the Israeli forces guns down a Palestinian. I am aware of the way Fox News (for eg) potrays M.E Muslims. Some things i agree, others i do not. I even read the English version of Al-Jazeera (to understand from their perspective) and let me tell you this; they are just as bias as Fox, if not, worse.

News aside, i too believe that we should get rid of the implanted dictators. Go back and re-read what i wrote. Unfortunately, i am in no power. But, if i could change things, i’d get rid of all those who work for Sesame Street and replace them with legitimate leaders. I don’t care if they are Muslim or not, as long as they just and fair and are not afraid of international pressure.

Going back to the OP, don’t you think Hamid Karzai as a Muslim should have done a better job than to let rapists roam free?
 
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