AFP: Lefebvrites - no intention of “responding” to Vatican ultimatum [Fr. Z]

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The spokesman of the SSPX is reported by the Agence France-Presse about the Five Conditions. This is reported in
Le-Croix.com.
Here is my translation with by **emphases **and comments.
PARIS: 27 June 2008 (AFP) – The Lefebvrites have no intention of responding to the Vatican’s ultimatum.
The Fraternity of Sain Pius X [SSPX], founded by [Archbishop] Lefebvre, has no intention of responding to the “ultimatum” which was put to the Vatican to bring to a conclusion the schism provoked twenty years about for the traditionalist movement, the spokesman for the SSPX indicated.

“The SSPX has no intention of responding to this ultimatum”, SSPX spokesman Fr. Alain Loran declared by phone from Ecône (Switzerland) to the AFP. [Okay… pretty clear: we are not going to respond.]

“We do not envision any practical or canonical accord before treating doctrinal questions which have arisen since Vatican II”, the one in charge [blah blah blah]…

"[Bp.] Bernard Fellay (Superior General of the SSPX) is surprised by the existing discrepency between the ultimatum’s procedural character and the ultimatum’s content, which is very imprecise, Fr. Lorans added.
The Italian daily *Il Giornale *[blah blah blah… review of what has been reported]…
The Vatican had given to the SSPX until 28 June to respond positively to these questions.
These five conditions posed by the Vatican deal with the recognition of the authority of the Pope and the committment to say nothing against the Church, but the contain no reference to the Second Vatican Council
According to Fr. Lorans, the Superior General of the SSPX, [Bp.] Fellay wrote a letter to the Vatican authorities on Thursday. [Ummm… isn’t this a response?]
Okay… there might be a nuance to “répondre” I am not getting. I know there is an idiom “répondre aux conditions” which suggests “satisfy requirements”. On the other hand, later in the article I read “répondre positivement à ces questions”, which suggests that the use of “répondre” above doesn’t automatically hint at a positive response.

Still, what I am getting from this is that they responded to say they aren’t going to respond.

Also, a long time ago I began explaining that whereas some in the Vatican wanted the big family photo with the group hug right away (which has its merits, believe me), the SSPX wanted to discuss theological issues first, and worry about the group photo later.

Still, what is required now, more than ever… right now… is a dramtic gesture of humility on the part of the leadership of the SSPX, even at the risk of alienating their benefactors (read: money).

Full entry…
 
Fr. Z still thinks it’s worth our while to pray, and so I’ll continue to pray.

But, I think it’s time to stop worrying abou the “The SSPX” as a group and concentrate on helping individuals find their way home.
 
Unfortunately, the attitudes and tactics of the SSPX crowd may cast the “regular” tradtionalist Catholic crowd in a bad light.
 
ethelzguy said:
Unfortunately, the attitudes and tactics of the SSPX crowd may cast the “regular” tradtionalist Catholic crowd in a bad light.
Click to expand...
So very true. I don’t know much about the SSPX but their latest behavior makes them look awful. One thing I now know. If they ever return en mass they had better be distributed and not kept as a big clump because they could end-up really being a boil on the Church.
 
Catholic_Opinion said:
…Still, what I am getting from this is that they responded to say they aren’t going to respond…

Also, a long time ago I began explaining that whereas some in the Vatican wanted the big family photo with the group hug right away (which has its merits, believe me), the SSPX wanted to discuss theological issues first, and worry about the group photo later…
Click to expand...
Is there anyone in politics on the Mediterrean who does not know how to handle political saber-rattling? Certainly anyone of consequence in Vatican City ought to. I am far less concerned with what they’re telling the newspapers–that is what they’re telling the rank-and-file, not the Pope–and a lot more concerned with what they’re telling the Vatican.

If you’re trying to make up with your wife, and she crosses her arms, turns away, and says, “I don’t want to talk about it”, that is a lot better than if she quietly looks you in the eye, spits on your tie, then turns around, slams the door and screams out of the driveway. This is much more important than what she tells the neighbors who ask how things are going at your house, too.

As for the “group photo”, if the Vatican is willing to have it, that is a good sign. When the SSPX wants it and the Vatican will have none of it, that’s when I’ll know things are really on the rocks and the tide is out. After all, there are members of Roman Catholic Womenpriests tell the newspapers that they “reject” their excommunications. They’re much farther from the fold than the SSPX.

The leadership of the SSPX has a ticklish job here, by the way. It is not as if their rank-and-file are the branch of the Traditionalists who are going to give an inch purely in the name of obedience. If they were to capitulate to the humble thing to do, instead of the “right” thing to do, they’d leave a bigger chunk of their following behind. The traditionalists who think that way are still in the Church!

Once you’ve given yourself permission to spit on Rome because they don’t know the faith as well as you do, then whether you are right or wrong doctrinally, you have one foot out of the sheepfold already, and the other in the air.
 
Spiller said:
So very true. I don’t know much about the SSPX but their latest behavior makes them look awful. One thing I now know. If they ever return en mass they had better be distributed and not kept as a big clump because they could end-up really being a boil on the Church.
Click to expand...
I think it will also create further angst among the tradtional crowd, as it appears that it was their hope that a return of the SSPX would bolster their numbers and advance their agenda.

If the SSPX were to be declared in schism, some of the rogue traditionalist crowd might discover that THEY are the new “fringe”.
 
ethelzguy said:
I think it will also create further angst among the tradtional crowd, as it appears that it was their hope that a return of the SSPX would bolster their numbers and advance their agenda.

If the SSPX were to be declared in schism, some of the rogue traditionalist crowd might discover that THEY are the new “fringe”.
Click to expand...
I think that the “traditional crowd” that longs for this matter to be cleared up, and cleared up in charity, would include the Holy Father. The SSPX puts him in a very difficult position, a difficult position shared by many other traditionalists who would love to have this cleared up.

If you define a traditionalist as one whose spirituality includes Latin, the TLM, the rosary, and the veneration of the saints, and not a desire to wipe out the liturgies that came out of Vatican II, then they don’t belong on “the fringe.” Their position is legitimate and smack in the middle of orthodox Roman Catholicism.
 
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