Afraid of appearing too pious ?

  • Thread starter Thread starter marthaferretti
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I usually go to a very reverent OF Mass. In the US, the bishops have said that the norm is communion in the hand, standing, and so I do that. It turns out that there is one man who does receive kneeling. Last week I managed to trip on the poor guy.

I had no clue that he was going to kneel to receive. The line was very tight, and moving slowly but steadily. I was proceeding at the same rate of speed as the adjacent line, and staying out of the way of the person behind me.

Fortunately, the priest saw the impending collision and stepped back quickly to avoid spilling the contents of the ciborium. That would have been just too horrible to contemplate.

Both this gentleman and I went down in an unceremonious and very undignified heap. I have a bruise on my wrist from trying to break my fall onto the terrazzo floor.

I mean no irreverence about this, but is there any way that the kneeling people could signal their intent to the person behind them? And I agree, using the communion rail, if it still exists in your church, would be the way to go.
 
It’s like driving a car and rear ending someone. It’s always your fault for following too close. 🙂
 
I usually go to a very reverent OF Mass. In the US, the bishops have said that the norm is communion in the hand, standing, and so I do that. It turns out that there is one man who does receive kneeling. Last week I managed to trip on the poor guy.
I believe you are incorrect about the norm. It is true that the US Bishops have stated that the norm for receiving Holy Communion is standing. (Although I might add that it is a “norm” that the Holy See has said several times may not be enforced and those choosing to receive kneeling may not be denied).

But receiving in the hand is NOT a norm. In fact, as a matter of universal law, receiving on the tongue is the norm, and receiving in the hand is an indult.

So if you wish to follow the norm, you should receive on the tongue.
 
I know it can get dicey kneeling when no one else is kneeling, but there should be no problem receiving it on the tongue while standing.

Heaven forbid being forced to receive the Body in my hands.
 
I’ve read here and elsewhere about Catholics worried about how they’ll appear to other Catholics if they kneel for Holy Communion, receive Holy Communion on the tongue, wear a chapel veil, pray the Rosary before Mass etc., etc.

The Catholic Faith has inspired countless martyrs to die for the Faith and some worry that doing the above might cause other Catholics to think of them as ‘more Catholic than the Pope’, ‘Catholic fundamentalists’, or numerous other insults we’ve heard for years ? !!

C’mon and show some backbone. Who cares what other Catholic think. Just do it.

I personally began receiving Holy Communion while kneeling probably 12-13 years ago. I think I may have been the only one at the Cathedral where I live who received kneeling at the time and I was never refused.

If you are refused, tell them while still kneeling that they can’t refuse you Communion. If they still refuse you, stand, return to the pew w/o receiving. If you receive while standing like they want you to do, they’ve won. After Mass, give the priest a copy of the relevent information that states you can’t be refused Holy Communion for kneeling. Assist at Mass the following week and repeat until they do give you Communion. Don’t let the litugical bullies get the better of you.
How is not recieving a victory for you?

To me, the Eucharist is a gift. It is the greatest gift I will ever be given on this side of the grave.

But the woman came and did him homage, saying, “Lord, help me.” He said in reply, “It is not right to take the food of the children and throw it to the dogs.” She said, “Please, Lord, for even the dogs eat the scraps that fall from the table of their masters.” Then Jesus said to her in reply, "O woman, great is your faith! (Matthew 15:25-28)

I’m a beggar, a dog who eats the scraps from the master’s table. Who is a dog to demand to his master how he is to be fed? Who am I to demand of God how my sacraments are to be administered to me?

If Christ was willing to undergo being nailed to a cross then I should be able to endure standing to recieve that very same Christ. Personally, I’d rather stand and recieve than demand to kneel and be refused. Sure, it’s nice to kneel and recieve on the tounge when possible but there are people who walked hundred’s of miles to recieve just once in their life. I’d dance a jig and then stand on my head to recieve if that is what it took.

The only one who wins when anyone doesn’t recieve is Satan.

-Tim-
 
I believe you are incorrect about the norm. It is true that the US Bishops have stated that the norm for receiving Holy Communion is standing. (Although I might add that it is a “norm” that the Holy See has said several times may not be enforced and those choosing to receive kneeling may not be denied).

But receiving in the hand is NOT a norm. In fact, as a matter of universal law, receiving on the tongue is the norm, and receiving in the hand is an indult.

So if you wish to follow the norm, you should receive on the tongue.
Norms for the Distribution and Reception of Holy Communion Under Both Kinds in the Dioceses of the United States of America

http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/images/solidline.gif

Approved by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops
on June 14, 2001

  1. Holy Communion under the form of bread is offered to the communicant with the words “The Body of Christ.” The communicant may choose whether to receive the Body of Christ*** in the hand or on the tongue***. When receiving in the hand, the communicant should be guided by the words of St. Cyril of Jerusalem: “When you approach, take care not to do so with your hand stretched out and your fingers open or apart, but rather place your left hand as a throne beneath your right, as befits one who is about to receive the King. Then receive him, taking care that nothing is lost.”
 
Norms for the Distribution and Reception of Holy Communion Under Both Kinds in the Dioceses of the United States of America

http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/images/solidline.gif

Approved by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops
on June 14, 2001

  1. Holy Communion under the form of bread is offered to the communicant with the words “The Body of Christ.” The communicant may choose whether to receive the Body of Christ*** in the hand or on the tongue***. When receiving in the hand, the communicant should be guided by the words of St. Cyril of Jerusalem: “When you approach, take care not to do so with your hand stretched out and your fingers open or apart, but rather place your left hand as a throne beneath your right, as befits one who is about to receive the King. Then receive him, taking care that nothing is lost.”
Thanks Paul. That’s just what I thought. It is not a norm to receive in the hand.
 
I fail to understand why everything has to be turned into a confrontation and a battle. If we are trying to teach each other and to promote authentic Catholic Spirituality, we must stay away from such rhetoric as “fight, sinister, plot, conspiracy, proof, etc”. The saints did not live in bubbles. The lived in a world very much like our own. There were issues within the Church and in the world around the Church. However, they did not raise the bar in conflicts. Instead, they brought great stability, peace and common sense to every situation.

Look at a modern saint, Bl. Mother Teresa. She lived in our world and in our time. She saw all kinds of things happen inside the Church and in the world around her. However, if one reads her writings and her talks, she talks about Jesus, the poor, sin, charity, mercy, justice, the Eucharist, the Blessed Mother and many other topics. She does not talk about people. She often became very upset when someone approached her with, “Did you know what Father X said or what Bishop Y did?” She didn’t want to know. As far as she was concerned, she had one duty in life, to please Jesus.

In order to please Jesus, she did many things that made her very different from other religious sisters. First, she ceased being a nun and became a sister. That was different. Long before Vatican II called for the revision of habits and their adaptation to climates, cultures and charisms, she gave up the use of a European habit and created an Indian one. When COTH arrived where her sisters and brothers were, she never prohibited it, contrary to a misquote that is going around. She said that she continued to receive COTT and she gave her reasons for it. Nevertheless, she never made it a mandatory rule for her two congregations. This was unique. In a world where everyone wants to control how everyone else adores God, this holy woman wanted to do nothing of the kind. She had every right to do so. She was the Superior General. Her position was that this was a personal choice and if the Church allowed it, then it was up to her sisters and brothers to choose for themselves.

Interestingly enough, long before everyone else started standing to receive Holy Communion, Mother Teresa began to do so in the mid 1940s. On her journey from being a Loretto Nun to being a Sister Missionary of Charity, she read the rule and life of St. Francis of Assisi. I do not know for sure that she read the Modus Procedendi of the Franciscans. However, the Constitutions of the Missionaries of Charity and her life suggest that she may have. They contain many Franciscan customs, one of them being chapels without communion rails and kneelers, which is a very old and standing to receive Holy Communion. Actually, you genuflect then stand.

She prayed alongside Muslims and Hindus. While they did their thing, she prayed her rosary, kneeling or sitting right next to them. When she arrived in an unknown city she would find the parish closest to the airport and announce to whoever opened the door that Christ wanted her to spend the night there.

The point is that she did tons of things that were very different from the way that other people did them. She did not notice it. However, she never spoke against anyone who did not do things her way, nor did she engage in battles with people.

She reminds me of St. Anthony of Padua who fought heresy by not talking about it. Now that’s a hoot. He became the Iron Hammer against heresy. He preached the truth. When he walked into a town where the heretics were preaching that the sacraments were unnecessary, Anthony would preach about the great love and mercy that God wants to share with us through the sacraments. He avoided mentioning that the guy over in the next building is talking nonsense. He deliberately avoided making such criticisms, because his spiritual father, Francis, showed respect and love for all people and preached the faith, rather than debate about the errors against the faith. One of Anthony’s greatest acts of charity was to conceal his knowledge until he was outed by the Minister Provincial.

He is another saint who was a very different kind of person and did not know it, because he did not pay attention to it. He was a religious for 18-years, first an Augustinian and then a Franciscan. He was a scholar, missionary, preacher, professor of theology and a superior. About three-years before he dies, he is ordained a priest. One would have thought that he would have been a priest, given his achievements. That was not the case. That’s not why he entered the Augustinians or the Franciscans. He entered the Augustinians to live a quiet life of penance. He left them and joined the Franciscans because he made a deal with the Franciscan superior. “If you promise me that I can go to the missions, I’ll join your order.” They agreed and he received the dispensation to leave the Augustinians and join the Friars Minor. The best part about it is that he did not look or act like a great scholar, theologian, preacher, priest and superior. He was boyish, very short, overweight, with a dumb look on his face, couldn’t grow the mandatory beard, and he was described as loving to laugh, sing, play and having a photographic memory. He read the scriptures and memorized them by page, chapter, number and verse.

Sanctity is achieved through great courage and in great peace, even if on the outside, it does not look like peace. The saints paid attention to the Church, to the Scriptures, and to Sacred Tradition. They were very spontaneous in their worship and in their charity. They never thought about being pious.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I’m just asking what the motivation is. I agree that at times people politicize Holy Communion. I am just interested what the OP is trying to say, if anything.

I understand when you “just have to do something”. My parish does not have a Tabernacle in the church proper - it’s in a chapel. Well, to go in or out of the church, one must pass the chapel. The Tabernacle is totally visible through the glass doors. I genuflect when I pass; I try to keep out of people’s way when I do. I am appalled at the number of people (the majority) who do not genuflect. But, I do because I simply can not pass by without genuflecting.

If someone asked me why, I would say we are obligated to, I personnaly must genuflect, and so should you. If that’s what the OP is saying about kneeling, fine, I am just curious why.
I had this exact same problem at the church I used to go to. Those glass doors face the side entrance and into the lobby, where everyone has to pass through to get in and out of the church… and … no one genuflected. My heart ached every time.

I pray for the architect that thought it would be a good idea to suggest this idea for Catholic churches, too.
How is not recieving a victory for you?

To me, the Eucharist is a gift. It is the greatest gift I will ever be given on this side of the grave. …]The only one who wins when anyone doesn’t recieve is Satan.
Beautifully said. 👍 And sadly, true …
 
How is not recieving a victory for you?

To me, the Eucharist is a gift. It is the greatest gift I will ever be given on this side of the grave.

I’m a beggar, a dog who eats the scraps from the master’s table. Who is a dog to demand to his master how he is to be fed? Who am I to demand of God how my sacraments are to be administered to me?

-Tim-
Who are priests to disobey the General Instruction of the Roman Missal and other decisions of the Roman Congregations? And why should we encourage their disobedience by going along with what they unjustly demand of us?

madisoncatholicherald.org/guestcolumn/2299-matenaer.html

One “always has the right to receive Holy Communion on the tongue, at his choice."

Communicants “should not be denied Holy Communion because they kneel.”

“Any refusal of Holy Communion to a member of the faithful on the basis of his or her kneeling posture to be a grave violation of one of the most basic rights of the Christian faithful.”

"The faithful should not be imposed upon nor accused of disobedience and of acting illicitly when they kneel to receive Communion.”
 
Br. JR, your post is inspiring. We truly have so far to go to reach the sanctity of the saints.
 
Who are priests to disobey the General Instruction of the Roman Missal and other decisions of the Roman Congregations? And why should we encourage their disobedience by going along with what they unjustly demand of us?

madisoncatholicherald.org/guestcolumn/2299-matenaer.html

One “always has the right to receive Holy Communion on the tongue, at his choice."

Communicants “should not be denied Holy Communion because they kneel.”

“Any refusal of Holy Communion to a member of the faithful on the basis of his or her kneeling posture to be a grave violation of one of the most basic rights of the Christian faithful.”

"The faithful should not be imposed upon nor accused of disobedience and of acting illicitly when they kneel to receive Communion.”
The bold is mine. While I agree with the entire article, I disagree with your introduction because it’s confrontational. The goal when receiving the Eucharist is to achieve great holiness. We never achieve great holiness through confrontation or by cultivating confrontation thinking in ourselves or in others.

We achieve great holiness by focussing on Jesus and by directing others to do the same. My advice is to receive in any manner that helps you to remain in a state of grace and place great distance between yourself and the rhetoric of the world. Speak only with silence and great charity.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Br. JR, your post is inspiring. We truly have so far to go to reach the sanctity of the saints.
Maybe it’s inspiring because men and women like Bl. Teresa of Calcutta and St. Anthony of Padua are inspirations.

Thank you for your kind words.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I have always received the Holy Eucharist on the tongue; I always wear a chapel veil; and I always pray my Rosary before Mass. I arrive about 45 minutes early for Mass to allow myself time for the Rosary and some Scripture reading and quiet time with the Lord before Mass.

I never gave one thought to what others might think of me; why would any Catholic object to another Catholic praying the Rosary? That does not even make sense to me.:confused:

My church is a Basilica and people light votive candles before the Blessed Mother and St. Joseph and stop and pray. I doubt if another Catholic would think they are being “too Catholic.” 🤷

I don’t kneel to receive the Holy Eucharist because I am physically not able to do so; but, on occasion I do attend a nearby church where they still have the altar rail and the Holy Eucharist is always distributed at the rail and kneeling; never in a Communion line.

:knight1:
 
I have always received the Holy Eucharist on the tongue; I always wear a chapel veil; and I always pray my Rosary before Mass. I arrive about 45 minutes early for Mass to allow myself time for the Rosary and some Scripture reading and quiet time with the Lord before Mass.

I never gave one thought to what others might think of me; why would any Catholic object to another Catholic praying the Rosary? That does not even make sense to me.:confused:

My church is a Basilica and people light votive candles before the Blessed Mother and St. Joseph and stop and pray. I doubt if another Catholic would think they are being “too Catholic.” 🤷

I don’t kneel to receive the Holy Eucharist because I am physically not able to do so; but, on occasion I do attend a nearby church where they still have the altar rail and the Holy Eucharist is always distributed at the rail and kneeling; never in a Communion line.

:knight1:
The red is mine.

This is the key to great holiness and to quiet prayer. One is focussed on the moment as Brother Jean-Pierre de Caussade explains in the Sacrament of the Present Moment.

To focus on what everyone else should be doing is presumption. To speculate on what others think about what we’re doing is pride. They are two sides of the same coin.

It is much holier to focus on the present moment.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Who are priests to disobey the General Instruction of the Roman Missal and other decisions of the Roman Congregations? And why should we encourage their disobedience by going along with what they unjustly demand of us?

madisoncatholicherald.org/guestcolumn/2299-matenaer.html

One “always has the right to receive Holy Communion on the tongue, at his choice."

Communicants “should not be denied Holy Communion because they kneel.”

“Any refusal of Holy Communion to a member of the faithful on the basis of his or her kneeling posture to be a grave violation of one of the most basic rights of the Christian faithful.”

"The faithful should not be imposed upon nor accused of disobedience and of acting illicitly when they kneel to receive Communion.”
Southpaw, you are exactly correct. This was part of the point of my OP.

I’m accused of being the bully in this hypothetical instance by one of the previous posters because I would object to a priest refusing to give me Holy Communion for kneeling. In actuallity it would be the priest who is the bully because he’s the one being disobedient and trying to force another to follow his disobedience.
 
This the the Catholic Church. Universal. We do things together.

There is no way to receive kneeling without creating a stir. I would have to ask why you feel compelled to do that. Do you feel everyone should, so you disrupt the line to show them? Or do you only feel that you should?

You are definitely making a statement - what is that statement? How do you* want *to appear to other Catholics?
PiV,

Your statement about causing a ‘stir’ is completely falacious. As I stated above, I’ve received kneeling for many years and never caused a ‘stir’. I’ve seen numerous other Catholics receive Holy Communion while kneeling at the NO Mass when most were receiving standing and never once did I witness a problem.

The argument that someone following the kneeling communicant might trip is also bogus. If this problem did actually occur, it’s a result of the person following the kneeling communicant. Just like a driver who rear-ends another motorist. It always the fault of the person who hits from behind.

My question to you is why is my completely legitimate way of receiving Holy Communion (the manner in which all Latin Rite Catholics received Holy Communion for centuries) makes you defensive?

If you’re so concerned about the universality of the Church, then you should be in favor of the use of Latin as the language of the Mass. There’s nothing more universal then the whole Church celebrating the sacrifice of the Mass in the same language. Are you in favor of a universal language for the celebration of the Mass? If not, then you’re not being consistent in your argument.
 
PiV,

Your statement about causing a ‘stir’ is completely falacious. As I stated above, I’ve received kneeling for many years and never caused a ‘stir’. I’ve seen numerous other Catholics receive Holy Communion while kneeling at the NO Mass when most were receiving standing and never once did I witness a problem.

The argument that someone following the kneeling communicant might trip is also bogus. If this problem did actually occur, it’s a result of the person following the kneeling communicant. Just like a driver who rear-ends another motorist. It always the fault of the person who hits from behind.

My question to you is why is my completely legitimate way of receiving Holy Communion (the manner in which all Latin Rite Catholics received Holy Communion for centuries) makes you defensive?

If you’re so concerned about the universality of the Church, then you should be in favor of the use of Latin as the language of the Mass. There’s nothing more universal then the whole Church celebrating the sacrifice of the Mass in the same language. Are you in favor of a universal language for the celebration of the Mass? If not, then you’re not being consistent in your argument.
Marthaferretti,

Thanks for posing this answer. You said everything that I was wanting to say and in a much better way than I could express.

God Bless.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top