Africa.

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BSHoop96 said:
lemonbeam…

The Catholic Church does not believe in the use of condoms…period…therefore they do not believe in the use of condoms in Africa.

I have a slight problem with this myself. Third world countries are fully of dying people, children and adults. Starvation, AIDS and/or both. Telling people in a third world country that the use of condoms is a sin against God is probably not only totally foreign to them but unnatural and the same for abstinence. Seeing that a condom is a barrier method and not an abortifacient, I have a problem with the wisdom of this. However, in no way does this mean that the Catholic Church “wants” to spread HIV/AIDs. That’s ridiculous.
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I agree with you. I have problems with this…😦
 
VociMike said:
So, do you think anybody should trust their very life to a condom? Because anybody who promotes condoms to reduce HIV is saying exactly that.
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If you are having sex, then wearing a condom can dramatically reduce the risk of catching an STD and HIV. Laboratory studies on condoms show that they provide a barrier to microorganisms, including HIV, as well as sperm.

thebody.com/content/art17057.html
 
Having sex with only your spouse is 100% effective in preventing the spread of AIDS.
 
I just look at the Roman Catholicism section on the bbc website, and it lists the following:

**'But the Church does not condemn things like the pill or condoms in themselves. What is morally wrong is using such things with the intention of preventing conception. Using them for other purposes is fine - for example, using the pill to regulate the periods of a woman who is not in a sexual relationship is not wrong.

The Church teaches that using artificial contraception is wrong because:

it is against ‘natural law’
it breaks the natural connection between the procreative and the unitive purposes of sex
it turns sex into a non-marital act
it gives human beings the power to decide when a new life should begin - that power belongs to God
it leads to widespread immorality
it damages the institution of marriage
it reduces male respect for women
it gives human beings the idea that they can have complete power over the body’**

bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/christianethics/contraception_5.shtml

So why wouldn’t using condoms in a country like Africa, with a HIV epidemic, be okay? Women/Men in Africa would not want to use condoms so that they could prevent having children, they would want to stop the spread of HIV. From what I have read (listed above), it would be not be a problem.
 
lemonbeam said:
If you are having sex, then wearing a condom can dramatically reduce the risk of catching an STD and HIV. Laboratory studies on condoms show that they provide a barrier to microorganisms, including HIV, as well as sperm.

thebody.com/content/art17057.html
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At the same time, you are essentially telling people “It’s OK now, everything is safe” and so people who might otherwise be cautious will not be cautious. Like I said, very immoral.
 
ricko said:
Having sex with only your spouse is 100% effective in preventing the spread of AIDS.
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Yes I agree, but there is this epidemic. It is killing adults and children alike, and it needs to be stopped in its tracks.
 
VociMike said:
At the same time, you are essentially telling people “It’s OK now, everything is safe” and so people who might otherwise be cautious will not be cautious. Like I said, very immoral.
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Yes I agree, it is a double-edged sword, but people are dying because of this evil disease. It needs to be stopped.
 
lemonbeam said:
Yes I agree, it is a double-edged sword, but people are dying because of this evil disease. It needs to be stopped.
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But people who might otherwise avoid putting themselves at risk may end up dying because of the false belief that condoms make everything safe. Don’t those new deaths count for anything?
 
lemonbeam said:
If you are having sex, then wearing a condom can dramatically reduce the risk of catching an STD and HIV. Laboratory studies on condoms show that they provide a barrier to microorganisms, including HIV, as well as sperm.

thebody.com/content/art17057.html
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Abstinence is 100% certain - condoms are not.

I hope you read the “This Rock” article on Uganda which ricko linked in his post #11.

I’m not sure just when the article was written, but I seem to recall hearing (and my memory could be wrong, not sure if it was Uganda or some other African nation) that in the last few years a “competitive” push for condoms was introduced - competitive to the strong push for responsible sex which had been put forward by the country’s leaders for quite a few years, and which had succeeded in reducing the HIV rate to a very low level. But now, one of the results of the increased use of condoms is an increased rate of HIV! Condoms encourage irresponsible sex habits - which is what causes the problem in the first place.

Anyone who truly cares about stopping HIV should be helping to spread the message of abstinence on the part of those who have HIV, and teaching God’s morality regarding sexual union to all.
 
lemonbeam said:
I just look at the Roman Catholicism section on the bbc website, and it lists the following:

**'But the Church does not condemn things like the pill or condoms in themselves. What is morally wrong is using such things with the intention of preventing conception. Using them for other purposes is fine - for example, using the pill to regulate the periods of a woman who is not in a sexual relationship is not wrong.

The Church teaches that using artificial contraception is wrong because:

it is against ‘natural law’
it breaks the natural connection between the procreative and the unitive purposes of sex
it turns sex into a non-marital act
it gives human beings the power to decide when a new life should begin - that power belongs to God
it leads to widespread immorality
it damages the institution of marriage
it reduces male respect for women
it gives human beings the idea that they can have complete power over the body’**

bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/christianethics/contraception_5.shtml

So why wouldn’t using condoms in a country like Africa, with a HIV epidemic, be okay? Women/Men in Africa would not want to use condoms so that they could prevent having children, they would want to stop the spread of HIV. From what I have read (listed above), it would be not be a problem.
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I am no expert in RC canon law, so the reply I can give is not an official RC one.
But it seems to me that your point is not valid. Because yes, condoms would here be used to prevent the spread of HIV, but it would be used outside of marriage, and therein lies the problem: People sleeping with people they’re not supposed to be sleeping with…
 
VociMike said:
But people who might otherwise avoid putting themselves at risk may end up dying because of the false belief that condoms make everything safe. Don’t those new deaths count for anything?
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In fairness VOC, I think you are looking at this from a totally different cultural mindset. This is a third-world country. These are tribes. These are villages. They are not at the office, dropping off for a beer after work and thinking that if only they had a condom they might be safe but since they don’t, they’ll abstain. They are having sex. They will continue to have sex. They are totally unprotected.

I read the link. It is interesting but I did notice that it said they pushed abstinence and condoms if necessary. I thought it was a little insincere to apply the rate dropping to abstinence only. How many of those, especially the young used condoms? I do believe that, of course, abstinence and Christian values should be taught but that will be a long effort.
 
LutheranDK said:
I am no expert in RC canon law, so the reply I can give is not an official RC one.
But it seems to me that your point is not valid. Because yes, condoms would here be used to prevent the spread of HIV, but it would be used outside of marriage, and therein lies the problem: People sleeping with people they’re not supposed to be sleeping with…
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What about a celibate couple, waiting to be married. One has HIV (has had sex once before, unprotected, and caught it), the other doesn’t, has never had sex. What then? What is to stop the other person who is free of the disease, from catching it, apart from condoms, if they want to have sex after marriage?
 
lemonbeam said:
Soutune, I am not what you say I am! I have questions. Why, is that wrong? I thought that that was what this forum was for. Asking Questions. This is an open forum, you can ask what you like in regard to the Catholic faith, which I have done, and will continue to do. What is your problem!?
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My problem is people identifying themselves as Catholics in their profile and then asking very unCatholic or naive questions in order to ensnare credulous Catholics who are either lurking or posting.As a Catholic you should not have to be told extremely elementary things about your faith.As a Catholic you have a duty and responsibility to know these things or become knowledgeable.I suggest that you start with the Catechism of the Catholic Church or at least the compendium.
Again, I ask the question which I have been asking all afternoon-ARE you a baptised PRACTISING Catholic or not?If so my apologies but Holy Moley do you need some Catachesis!If you are NOT a Catholic please change your profile.The problem is some anti-Catholics post here as “Catholics” in order to question the faith and perhaps draw other weak, credulous and naive Catholics away from the True Faith of Catholicism and I RESENT deceit and underhandedness.Surely if you are a Catholic you can understand my concern.Over to you.
 
lemonbeam said:
What about a celibate couple, waiting to be married. One has HIV (has had sex once before, unprotected, and caught it), the other doesn’t, has never had sex. What then? What is to stop the other person who is free of the disease, from catching it, apart from condoms, if they want to have sex after marriage?
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Again, you have practically condemned the uninfected person to death in your scenario. Condoms have a typical failure rate of 15% (!!!). That’s about the same “failure rate” as Russian Roulette.
 
Soutane said:
My problem is people identifying themselves as Catholics in their profile and then asking very unCatholic or naive questions in order to ensnare credulous Catholics who are either lurking or posting.As a Catholic you should not have to be told extremely elementary things about your faith.As a Catholic you have a duty and responsibility to know these things or become knowledgeable.I suggest that you start with the Catechism of the Catholic Church or at least the compendium.
Again, I ask the question which I have been asking all afternoon-ARE you a baptised PRACTISING Catholic or not?If so my apologies but Holy Moley do you need some Catachesis!If you are NOT a Catholic please change your profile.The problem is some anti-Catholics post here as “Catholics” in order to question the faith and perhaps draw other weak, credulous and naive Catholics away from the True Faith of Catholicism and I RESENT deceit and underhandedness.Surely if you are a Catholic you can understand my concern.Over to you.
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I have been baptised, and have had Confirmation. I am not a poser. I am asking a legitimate question here. This forum is not just for know-it-alls. I hope that doesn’t sound rude! People post here, because they don’t know something and they want to know the answer. Just like me. Tell me one question that I have posted that is…wrong? I am doing Bible study, I sometimes have valid questions, regarding the Bible, things I read online etc. I should be able to ask without accusations being thrown at me that I’m somehow doing something wrong, or being fake!
 
The Church seems to think that the evils associated with the use of condoms, such as contraception, fornication, adultery, degradation of women, etc., outweigh any good, such as hindering the spread of sexually transmitted diseases, that might come from their use.
 
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