African Mass at St. Olaf's in Downtown Minneapolis

[TJD]

Originally posted by Bella3502
I do not like African priests. Therefore I would not attend an African Mass if I knew about it in advance. It is just not for me.

I must say I am perturbed by the first sentence of the quoted post. America is turning into a country dependent on missionary support. Unless we start encouraging our sons to the priesthood we best encourage African Priest’s to serve our spiritual needs. I have known 2 African priests recently and they were great. They offered Mass well. Christ was present in the Eucharist. One of them was even an excellent soccer coach for the kids.

By the way, they said The Mass in English and there was no dancing.

Christ’s Peace,

 

[TOME]

I see in a post Cardinal Arinze comments however this leads me to ask two questions. First was the good Cardinal (I say that sincerely - I do admire Cardinal Arinze) refering to the liturgies in Africa? It seems the Cardinal was refering to the Mass as celebrated in Africa. The second question is, what is the position of the local bishop about these liturgies? Has he approved them, allowed them with out comment or are they going against his will in their celebrations?

One final question about Liturgical Dance in the United States. While I know this has not been approved has it been specifically banned? If so how and when?

 

[palmas85]

The post by Cardinal Arinze was referring to the Church at large, not just in Africa. His statement was clear. DANCING IS NOT APPROVED IN THE MASS. No, I don’t think Liturgical dancing has been SPECIFICALLY banned in th United States, or anywhere else for that matter… But if you want to carry that line of reasoning furher ie: if not specifically banned it is permissable then numerous unsavory activities are not specifically banned either. Fornication in front of the altar is not SPECIFICALLY banned , but everyone knows you would not do it. At least I hope everyone knows.

 

[palmas85]

.One of them was even an excellent soccer coach for the kids.

I suppose this is one of the best qualifications for a priest.

 

[pnewton]

Bella3502:

I do not like African priests. Therefore I would not attend an African Mass if I knew about it in advance. It is just not for me.

I have only known two, from the Missionary Society of St. Peter and St. Paul in Abuja, Nigeria. I love them both dearly and find them to be faithful and obedient sons of the church. My whole family has taken to bringing them into our home and recreational life as guests here in America.

Fortunately, I already attend a parish that reaches out to the immigrants around us, many who are new and some who are undocumented. I would hope if I find myself abroad for long term, the Church does not abandon me.

 

[Patchunky]

palmas85:

Why not try using the universal language of the Church?

OH THANK THE LORD, THEY’RE GOING TO DO EVERYTHING IN OLD CHURHC SLAVONIC!!!:clapping:

 

[palmas85]

OH THANK THE LORD, THEY’RE GOING TO DO EVERYTHING IN OLD CHURHC SLAVONIC!!!:clapping:
[/quote]

If Old Church Slavonic is what the Byzantine Catholic Church uses traditionally, I say go for it. My major problem with modernists and reformers is that they seem to think the way we worship God is strictly our own business. We decide what God wants, needs and deserves and then give Him what WE want. I believe that God wants and requires worship in a certain way. Historically in Monotheistic cultures, worship has taken the form of ritualized activities to ensure uniformity. Jewish prayers for instance are supposed to be said in a certain way at certain times and in Orthodox Judaism in a certain tone of voice only. The same applies to Islam, Traditional Catholicism and I believe to the Eastern Orthodox Churches as well. I must admit though my experience with the Orthodox is confined to an Easter Service at a Greek Orthodox Church. Very stylized, very ritualistic, very very reverent, lots of chanting and incense.

No liturgical dancers though.

 

[Patchunky]

Actually, Old Church Slavonic is but **ONE **of the official UNIVERSAL languages of the Church!

 

[palmas85]

Patchunky:

Actually, Old Church Slavonic is but **ONE **of the official UNIVERSAL languages of the Church!

Not being Byzantine Catholic I don’t know what the official language is or if there even is one. I just said if it is the official or traditional language then go for it. Maybe your statement was made in sarcasm. Mine wasn’t. Sorry if you took offense.

 

[TOME]

It seems I have had one question answered - the Cardinal was speaking about the Church Universal and not the Local Church’s of Africa. But my other question remains, what is their Bishop’s position on these Masses?

 

[Detroit_Sue]

We have good friends from Nigeria. A priest and a nun. The nuns are of the order Daughters of Mary, Mother of Mercy (DMMM). The priest is a Son of Mary, Mother of Mercy (SMMM). My husband has assisted with masses at their convent. The nuns speak little English but have a vast Latin vocabulary. The priest speaks English to us and has acted as an interpreter for some of the nuns. The nuns wear habits in public, and native dress for family occasions (and it is gorgeous!). They dance, but not in Mass. It is entirely possible to keep one’s culture, and yet remain faithful to the Mass.

Sidebar: Nigerian vocations are soaring! There is not enough room in the seminary our friend attended, so a new one is being built. They had 300 ordinations last year. They are more solid and orthodox than most priests here.

 

[GBH]

Bella3502:

I do not like African priests. Therefore I would not attend an African Mass if I knew about it in advance. It is just not for me.

I now see where you are coming from, but surely your mindset is outside the realm of Catholicism.

 

[rwoehmke]

Ray Marshall:

Minneapolis and Minnesota are rarely thought of as centers of African or African-American culture. But St. Olaf’s parish in downtown Minneapolis makes an attempt to rectify that perception.

It has sister parishes in Africa and on the third Sunday of each month, an African Mass is held at noon with participation by Catholics from many African countries who have moved permanently or temporarily to Minnesota.

If you are going to be in town on one of those days, you might want to fulfill your obligation by visiting St. Olaf’s and gaining some experience on how God has revealed Himself to various peoples on the African continent.

The Mass is the Novus Ordo. What makes the difference is the wonderful music, and dare I say it, a little bit of liturgical dance.

Songs and readings done today were in the following languages: Mina and Lingala (Togo), Swahili (Kenya), Twe (Ghana), Igbo and Yoruba (Nigeria), English and French. Even though the words are projected on the wall on either side of the altar, it can be difficult to sing in a foreign language; but clapping as accompaniment :clapping: by the congregation is encouraged.

The “liturgical dance” :dancing: is limited to the entrance procession and the presentation of the gifts, including a procession of the entire congregation as they personally “dance” towards the altar to drop their envelopes in a basket. Admittedly the dancing of the white folks is not very inspiring. That of the native Africans, especially the native women who dress to the nines, though, contributes a lot to the beauty and inspiration of the Mass.

Ray, Thanks for a beautiful description. I wish I could have been there. The twin cities are probably reaching a point where Africans, Latinos, and Asiatics combined are a larger portion of the populus than the old Lutheran Swedes and Norwegians. Unfortunately we Catholics are required to be solemn and reverent at Mass at all times. Any displays of happiness or joy in the Lord (even sounds protestant, doesn’t it) are to be strictly suppressed. Just ain’t fittin. We do not want to be a “feel good church.” I will say though that most liturgical dance I have been exposed to was so out of place it would make a maggot gag. Somehow I think this dance you mention, where the whole congregation is involved in procession would be beautiful in the eyes of the Lord…

 

[jbuck919]

On the matter of the language of the readings, and I am not trying to hijack the thread, I was very disappointed at the funeral Mass of John Paul II that they did one reading in English and one in Spanish. Only the Gospel was in Lating (and sung beautifully according to the ancient tone, I might add). If anyone remembers the funeral of Paul VI (already Novus Ordo, of course), they did all the readings in Latin, and according the ancient custom of a papal pontifical Mass, repeated the Gospel in chanted Greek.

I have never seen the point of having the readings deviate from the way the rest of the Mass is being celebrated. A few months ago I heard a recording of last year’s broadcast of Ash Wednesday services from Westminster Cathedral in London. It is a relatively conservative site with an extremely fine choir and typically British sense of aesthetics in worship. It was a wonderful service, but they did the one reading (spoken) in English!

In the old days (and I am not going to use this forum to say we need the Traditional Latin Mass back just the way it was), the sermon was an interruption to the liturgy. Traditionally, parish priests, at least, started by reading the readings in the vernacular, already having read them in Latin. Now it seems that if there is a Latin liturgy, the “interruption” begins with the first reading. It is at least aesthetically very jarring and pastorally questionable when there are many ways, including taking the trouble of having translations for the congregation, to convey the text of the readings in a language that all can understand.

To bring this back on topic, I find it no honor to African culture to have multiple mutually unintelligible African languages used in one service. If the situation were reversed, and I attended a service where the main language was Swahili and the readings were in Icelandic, Dutch, Polish, Portuguese, and Serbo-Croatian in honor of the fact that everyone there was European or of European descent, I would feel at best that a bone was being thrown.

 

[Glennon_P]

I once was invited to attend a Mass at the Vietnamese Catholic parish here in Lincoln. The Mass was to celebrate Tet, the lunar new year, which is a major celebration in the Asian nations.

The Mass was in Vietnamese, of course, and featured heavy doses of incense (the most I’ve ever experienced in a Mass, by the way), lots and lots and lots of singing and chanting. The only part I understood was when the pastor spoke words of greeting in English and the Bishop (Bruskewitz) delivered some remarks at the end.

During the Mass, I thought, “How wonderful it is that the Faith reached the people of Vietnam.” That was followed by another thought…“How wonderful it is that the Faith reached the people of Germany…and Bohemia…and Poland…and Austria…and all the other countries where your ancestors lived before coming to the U.S.”

Was this Mass in Minnesota celebrated with authorization of the local Bishop? Was the priest validly ordained? Were approved readings used? Were the rubrics of the Mass followed? Were proper Eucharistic elements used?

Those are the things that detemine its validity…not the languages used for the readings or used by the priest celebrating the Mass. This applies to Vietnamese, Spanish, English, German, Czech, Polish and yes, even Latin.