After an argument with a friend of mine, i am confused about SEX

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I’ll take arbitrary made-up percentages for 100, Alex.

Lots of people love their Priests. You either refuse to see that, or are lying in your asserions. Besides, no one is forcing you to post 1900 messagess here, many of them simple complaints.
Do you disagree with the basic assertion that I made or not? Ad hominem attacks are not bothersome to me, but of course you ignore the claim. I’m perfectly happy to reduce the figure to 75%. Does that make it more palatable?

I refuse to see nothing. I adore my priest, and have liked as far as I can recall all of them. I respect all of them as well. I assume they know a tad more than I about things Catholic. I assume that, out of respect. Sometimes I may know a bit more on a particular subject. I doubt I know more about what is best in the confessional. Of course, no one is forcing me to post here, why would you suggest that?

Thanks, I guess you call me a liar. I’m not sure what about. I am not going to produce all the threads wherein people regularly tell others their priest is wrong. There are plenty of examples in this thread alone. It’s a tad presumptuous to me.
 
Do you just copy and paste this same post in all the threads? We know, we know. We’re all right wing knuckle dragging ultra-conservative throw backs to the last century and you are the enlightened and evolved spokesperson for the future of Catholicism. :yawn:
Nope, I wrote it out. I’m sure over the last several months, I’ve had occasion to say similar things on other threads. but no, I don’t search out that material and cut and paste. That would take way more time than simply typing it anew.

I was unaware that the conclusion by some that most priests are not doing their job correctly correlated with ultra-conservativism. I’ll have to give that a thought or two before I respond. Theoretically, I think one could be ultra left and reach the same conclusion. You are too kind to raise me to that level dear, I reject being said spokesperson. I am totally unworthy. I’ve had a number of master’s level courses in biblical studies and theology but not nearly enough to argue that any priest is wrong in his teaching. I would conclude that any teaching is done in a context I may be unaware of. It would not occur to me that it was my place to give advice. My advice is always consult a priest or nun. I am of the same opinion when teens come here and ask questions. I direct them to a priest or parent for advice. I find it wholly improper to step into the middle of such a protected relationship.
 
You know I just don’t know why the Pope doesn’t simply remove about 95% of all American Priests. After coming here for a few months, I’m now sure that most of them have not a clue about what they are doing. The vatican should no doubt appoint the patrons of CAF to do the work themselves since they know better than most priests what to do. The low opinion of the priesthood at this forum is astounding. There is zero respect, and what most say about nuns is insulting and shameful.

It’s simply amazing.
Let me attempt to answer your post again. Your sarcasm is unwelcome AND confusing.

I don’t imagine that the Pope/Vatican should dismiss 95% or even 5% of the priests in the United States based on what you claim to witness stated at CA. Some people state complaint/concern while you invent numbers (percentages) to support your ‘drama queen’ mode of viewing things. You seem to have a need to be negative and you seem to satisfy that need with your posts in these forums. So be it. (Whatever.)
 
Perhaps you are right. but all i see here are: “My priest said this…”, followed by “Your priest is wrong, report him.” I find it somewhat amusing that the laity is so quick to believe it understands things better than the priest. One always has one or two of these in every parish, but it is definitely the norm here. One would believe from these threads that there are a couple of hundred theologians onboard at CAF.
Or on the other hand. We are people who have read the Catechism and believe it. We are loyal Catholics to the Pope and don’t try to change things to suit us. We just don’t appreciate these liberal priests who try to be all nicey nice and change things to suit their needs.
 
okay, that question has suffienctly been answered. now i ask. if my friend at one point KNEW that the sin was mortal, but after talking with the priest and being convinced by him otherwise, laving him truly believing that premarital sex with someone he truly loves is venial and not mortal, is his sin still considered to be in full consent if the priest convinced him that the sin is venial and not mortal?
 
i mean if he were to recommit the sin. like when we confess to little white lies. we know they are venial sins yet we confess them anyway sometimes, and when we commit them, we know we are sinning but its still not a mortal sin. if a person believes that their sin is venial (whether or not it is venial or mortal) are they still considered to be sinning in FULL knowledge of the sin he is commitin. because of this, sinc ethe answer seems like it owuld be NO, is his sin still mortal if he commits it again, thinking that the sin is not mortal?
 
is it ever a venial sin, and NOT a mortal sin, to have sex outside of marriage, under ANY circumstance whatsoever?
Hmm. Well, technically, yes, it is possible for adultery to fall short of a mortal sin, even for someone who is aware that it is a mortal sin, if the person’s will were in some way impeded. You have to have full consent of the will to have a mortal sin. You have to have all three: 1) serious matter 2) person aware of the gravity of the choice and 3) full consent to the choice. And, technically, deciding what is and isn’t full consent isn’t an armchair call for us to make.

Nevertheless, I would hope that the priest would advise the penitent to pursue chastity with all diligence and to make every effort not to fall into the sin, and to promptly avail himself of the Sacrament of Reconcilliation if he failed in that effort.

The practice of chastity prior to marriage is foundational for the practice of chastity after marriage. It is very dangerous to give into temptation in the belief that “I just can’t help myself.” Well, sometimes you can’t, this is true, and compassion is in order. Starting with that attitude, though, success is hardly possible.

I say this on theoretical grounds. My confessor has a rule that it is good for a penitent to take his questions back to his confessor, and not share them with others, except with another confessor. Many times, what the original confessor said is misconstrued or wrongly related to others. When this happens, particularly when related to other people who know the priest, it can be a great cause of scandal and error, and is ardently to be avoided.
 
okay, that question has suffienctly been answered. now i ask. if my friend at one point KNEW that the sin was mortal, but after talking with the priest and being convinced by him otherwise, laving him truly believing that premarital sex with someone he truly loves is venial and not mortal, is his sin still considered to be in full consent if the priest convinced him that the sin is venial and not mortal?
That is a very interesting question.

I think, in this case, the “full knowledge” part of it being a mortal sin would not be fulfilled?

Kathrin
 
That is a very interesting question.

I think, in this case, the “full knowledge” part of it being a mortal sin would not be fulfilled?

Kathrin
Maybe…but the injury to the marriage that comes from not pursuing chastity would still be done. God’s laws are not arbitrary juridical concepts, after all. Mortal sins are actions or failures that do serious damage, even in cases where there is no culpability.

If the arsonist who burns your house down is truly “not guilty by reason of insanity”, and therefore has a moral excuse, your house is still a burned-down heap.

Which brings up another interesting question: is a person so easily swayed from what conscience dictates capable of a valid marriage? Don’t get me wrong: we can’t answer that! It is, rather, something for the young man to examine within himself. Who does he think is ultimately responsible for forming his conscience and making his choices: him or his confessor? Is it possible he’s mistaking priestly compassion for a priestly carte blanche? If I were his wife-to-be, I know what answer I’d want to hear.
i mean if he were to recommit the sin. like when we confess to little white lies. we know they are venial sins yet we confess them anyway sometimes, and when we commit them, we know we are sinning but its still not a mortal sin. if a person believes that their sin is venial (whether or not it is venial or mortal) are they still considered to be sinning in FULL knowledge of the sin he is commitin. because of this, sinc ethe answer seems like it owuld be NO, is his sin still mortal if he commits it again, thinking that the sin is not mortal?
I don’t know about you, but I’ve never had a confessor require me to decide whether a sin is mortal or not before confessing it. You play with fire when you get into that kind of hair-splitting.

You start with the most serious assaults you have made on virtue and your duties toward God and neighbor, in fact mentioning everything that even maybe falls into the category of “serious”, and if the list is not too long go on to anything that is less serious.

Do you wait around with a serious medical condition until even you, a non-professional, can see it clearly to be life-threatening? I hope not…especially not if your health care if free! You’d have to be a master of denial or else just plain nuts. And if your doctor shakes your confidence by seemingly taking serious symptoms lightly, even after questioning on your part, then, no offense intended Doc, you go find another doctor. If I asked the team doctor what to do in case I heard a really nasty “pop” and my knee gave way, I wouldn’t want him telling me to just finish the game and have him look at it on Monday…well, not until a second doctor said, “Your knees pop every time you walk. This other rule is the more appropriate rule for you, and here’s why, for you, this other way is the best way to care for your knees.”

On that account, I don’t feel comfortable applying any of what I said to this particular case. The guy ought to talk to his confessor again, and if the answer is the same, to at least one other confessor as well. He’d do the same for his knees. Why not his soul and his marriage?
 
I really don’t think that it is arguable. Fornication is a Mortal Sin. Sorry if I’m being harsh but it is and that’s it.
 
I really don’t think that it is arguable. Fornication is a Mortal Sin. Sorry if I’m being harsh but it is and that’s it.
Not according to Catholic doctrine. “For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must be met: mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent,” CCC 1857.

You’re correct that fornication is a grave matter and “that’s it” but you’re just assuming that the other criteria for a moral sin are present. Suppose the unmarried person who has sex is mentally challenged. You can’t just assume that the person has fully consented.
 
Yes, however in response to the aforementioned argument it seems that two normal mentally stable people fornicated and knew it was a sin. Under those circumstances it was a Mortal Sin.
 
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