After death... and marriage

[rosebudfantasy]

I have a thought that won’t go away. I am newly married, and have been annulled from my first marriage. Someone recently asked if I would remarry if my husband died. It made me very, very sad because we are so blessed to have found our love. I told them never, because to me our marriage is more than til death do you part. What happens to that person when they die after their husband passes away if they were to have remarried? Don’t we reunite with our loved ones after death? I know our goal is to be with God but what about our spouses? Then I was thinking selfishly that I didn’t want my husband to remarry if I were to pass because I wanted us to be together in the afterlife, not with his new wife. Please help me out of this very confusing state of sadness!

 

[StephanieC]

I will probably get corrected on this, but the concept of being married to someone for time and all eternity sounds more like Mormon teaching than Catholic.

Should we gain heaven, we will be united with Christ. There is much written about the “bride/bridegroom” metaphor for Christ and His love for the Church.

However, Rosebud, I’d say it’s normal to have these occasional fears, especially as a newlywed. I know I did, and still do from time to time. When you open your heart to love, and are loved, you realize how vulnerable you have made yourself to any random accident that could snatch you from each other in a blink of an eye. If/when you have kids, you go through it all over again.

Our destination or goal is Heaven, but our work is here, in this life. Our spouses are to help us gain Heaven through our vocations as husband and wife. So my husband is my partner on the journey; HE is not the destination!

I will do a little searching for more written on the topic for you; perhaps you can do a search here on the forums, or on the CA homepage for more food for thought.

 

[Verbum_Caro]

Stephanie,

That was quite a beautiful and insightful response to rosebud’s post. Thank you for sharing it.

VC

 

[rosebudfantasy]

ohhh thank you sooo much! yes it was so very beautiful. it does make me think about my selfishness now. i really think my husband could bless someone else by helping her lead her on the path to God. he has helped me so much with that i can’t even tell you. i asked for an angel and God certainly has given me one!

 

[Deacon_Ed]

The Eastern Catholic (and Orthodox) teaching is that death does not end the marriage. The Latin Rite teaching is that death ends the marriage. Regardless of the teaching, the reality is that when we die we are united to God sharing in His divine life. Because of this, we are also united to all those who share this divine life in ways we cannot even imagine. Thus, we are never separated from our loved ones and the intensity and depth of the relationship takes on entirely new definitions and meanings.

While it is certainly true that our destination is God and union with Him, it is equally true that the Communion of Saints is an important aspect of eternal life, and we cannot devalue this. God did not create us simply for Himself – we are created, live, die and are saved in the context of the Communion of Saints. This communion does not end with death but is fully realized only in death!

I, of couse, cannot remarry should my wife die – deacons are bound to celibacy if the wife dies. Yet, even should that happen, our relationship will be different but no less real.

Deacon Ed

 

[Joseph_Bilodeau]

Deacon Ed:

The Eastern Catholic (and Orthodox) teaching is that death does not end the marriage…

I had not heard this before, could you explain further? What are the ramifications of this thought regarding the remarriage of widows or widowers who are members of these churches?

 

[rosebudfantasy]

thank you deacon, i was hoping for a priest/deacons thought on this. i wasn’t sure either what you meant by the communion of saints so i asked my husband who studied theology and is very insightful in our religion and he gave a great response to help me so i thought i would share…

"beautiful … he says that by being “one” with God we are also one with all others who are one with Him … the saints … and each other. in perfect union. Through God, we are all connected … our souls intermingled in divine ecstasy "

 

[Deacon_Ed]

Joseph Bilodeau:

I had not heard this before, could you explain further? What are the ramifications of this thought regarding the remarriage of widows or widowers who are members of these churches?

In general, both Eastern Catholics and Orthodox (from whom we derive our theology) discourage second marriages, even those entered into after the death of a spouse. Both, of course, permit them – although they should not be the celebration that takes place with the first marriage. Such marriages are generally seen as being supportive in the sense that the Church recognizes the need for human beings to have a “help mate.” That is, the second marriage is permitted out of pastoral concern for one who cannot, or will not, live out a celibate life.

Deacon Ed

 

[crobynb]

I guess I have my own issues with this subject.

I realize the goal of Heaven is to have the perfect union with Father, Son, Holy Spirit. We will have peace and complete love fully realized.

But - we are given love on this Earth. This love is merely a shadow of the love to come but we are nevertheless given this powerful gift. Our parents, siblings, children, family and spouses are important to us in this life - wont they still be so in the next? When I took my wedding vows I meant til death do us part - but with the thought of we part only until we are one again in Heaven. Our marriage on earth ends, but our marriage witnessed by Christ will continue on forever.

I hope I am not being a “heretic” or have a wrong view not authorized by the Church. I just cannot see loving my husband only on earth and not being with him forever after we are gone. I know we will know pure joy once in Heaven, but I guess I always thought that joy would include our earthly loves as well.

 

[dulcissima]

Great thread!

Rosebud,

Imagine all of the love, and wonderful feelings that you have for your husband, and imagine sharing those feelings with everyone in heaven, being truly connected with all believers in the Communion of Saints. It may be hard to imagine here on earth, because we get kind of self absorbed or insecure, but that is what heaven is like. You mentioned being married previously and having an annulment. Can you imagine meeting your first husband in heaven, and he has been perfected to be the man that God created him to be. Imagine how wonderful it would be to know him in that way, and for that not to be a threat to your current husband, that he is overjoyed too. That is what the Communion of Saints is like. I think that the love that develops between a husband and wife is what prepares us for sharing in this kind of a bond with God and all believers.

1 Corinthians 13:11-13*

11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

*** 13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

 

[crobynb]

Still confused and concerned. Any reassuring thoughts to my previous post?

 

[Deacon_Ed]

crobynb:

I guess I have my own issues with this subject.

I realize the goal of Heaven is to have the perfect union with Father, Son, Holy Spirit. We will have peace and complete love fully realized.

Correct.

But - we are given love on this Earth. This love is merely a shadow of the love to come but we are nevertheless given this powerful gift. Our parents, siblings, children, family and spouses are important to us in this life - wont they still be so in the next? When I took my wedding vows I meant til death do us part - but with the thought of we part only until we are one again in Heaven. Our marriage on earth ends, but our marriage witnessed by Christ will continue on forever.

Anytime we speak of heaven we are in the realm of “speculative theology” – except for when we speak of what Jesus has revealed to us. We know that we will not be married in the sense that we are on earth. But we also know that union with God means union with all those who are united with God. Therefore, the union of man and wife in marriage is changed, but not ended by death. There is an old expression in Latin: vita mutatur non tollitur which means “life is changed, not ended.” Just as our life is changed, so too is our relationship with those we love. It is deepend and enhanced in ways we cannot begin to understand.

I hope I am not being a “heretic” or have a wrong view not authorized by the Church. I just cannot see loving my husband only on earth and not being with him forever after we are gone. I know we will know pure joy once in Heaven, but I guess I always thought that joy would include our earthly loves as well.

You appear to be right on here. As I always tell children when they ask me if their pet will be with them in heaven: heaven is a place of perfect happiness, and if that is what is needed for you to be perfectly happy then you will have it.

Deacon Ed

 

[crobynb]

Deacon Ed -

I truly appreciate your reply. I feel that your information was valuable and had so many good points.

So, I thank you.

Now I am left with the childlike answer of “But how do we really know??”

Hmmm. . . . oh yeah - FAITH ! Okay, I can do that. (But I think I still might have to throw in some comtemplative prayers on this one. This whole new perspective on the afterlife is a biggie; I will be chewing it for some time now. It could be a good thing, after all tunnel vision is not the best way to see the broader scope.)

 

[Sparky]

I thought I’d share this:

Luke 20:34-38
And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

In heaven, essentially, as Christ says - there is no need for earthly marriage for we are in the beatific vision…that NEED won’t be there. Oh, I’m sure you’ll still know eachother and love eachother—but it’ll be different. You’ll be different. You’ll be with God, and with him…we are all one in Christ…perfectly fulfilled…

Don’t worry about dying and remarrying. Let tomorrow take care of itself. Just enjoy your husband right now, and live for today. That is also what Jesus says.
–Ann

 

[rayne89]

crobynb:

I hope I am not being a “heretic” or have a wrong view not authorized by the Church. I just cannot see loving my husband only on earth and not being with him forever after we are gone. I know we will know pure joy once in Heaven, but I guess I always thought that joy would include our earthly loves as well.

I have very hard time imagining being seperated by death from my husband. I think about it too long or I start to feel panicked. I do believe we will be together in heaven. I received some great consolation on a thread I posted a while back.
Prometheum x:

From all the things I have read, I think that the relationships we have with each person in heaven will far surpass any relationship we could ever have on earth. There in heaven we will have complete communion, fully realized. Then we shall realize the full import of the phrase “the communion of saints”.

Br.Dan:

Regarding the next life–i think it is important to remember that we will always be distinct individuals, even in heaven. So, we will know who everyone else is and the relationships we have formed on earth will, somehow, be present there. At least, that’s how it seems to me. We’ll see.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=25397&highlight=love

 

[rosebudfantasy]

Sparky:

I thought I’d share this:

Luke 20:34-38
And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

In heaven, essentially, as Christ says - there is no need for earthly marriage for we are in the beatific vision…that NEED won’t be there. Oh, I’m sure you’ll still know eachother and love eachother—but it’ll be different. You’ll be different. You’ll be with God, and with him…we are all one in Christ…perfectly fulfilled…

Don’t worry about dying and remarrying. Let tomorrow take care of itself. Just enjoy your husband right now, and live for today. That is also what Jesus says.
–Ann

Ann and Deacon Ed I truely appreciate your response to helping me understand my anxieties. Deacon Ed, it does worry me though that i have been married before, but i did go thru the process of annulement and we both decided to go to confession before our marriage to eachother to start anew. when you said…
Deacon Ed:

In general, both Eastern Catholics and Orthodox (from whom we derive our theology) discourage second marriages, even those entered into after the death of a spouse. Both, of course, permit them – although they should not be the celebration that takes place with the first marriage. Such marriages are generally seen as being supportive in the sense that the Church recognizes the need for human beings to have a “help mate.” That is, the second marriage is permitted out of pastoral concern for one who cannot, or will not, live out a celibate life.

Deacon Ed

i hope that this marriage is recognized the same way in the church because it it sooo much more fulfilling spiritually and in every way. please give your thoughts on that as well if you would.

And Ann … you brought tears to my eyes with your last sentance. it truely is beautiful. thank you for that insight. the present is what is real and now, not what is going to happen in the future.

 

[Deacon_Ed]

rosebudfantasy:

Ann and Deacon Ed I truely appreciate your response to helping me understand my anxieties. Deacon Ed, it does worry me though that i have been married before, but i did go thru the process of annulement and we both decided to go to confession before our marriage to eachother to start anew. when you said…

i hope that this marriage is recognized the same way in the church because it it sooo much more fulfilling spiritually and in every way. please give your thoughts on that as well if you would.

Since there was no marriage in your first attempt (that’s what the annulment really is, a declaration of nullity) you have only one marriage, not a second one. I hope that sets your mind at ease.

Deacon Ed

 

[dulcissima]

What if you are suffering through this life in a bad marriage. You try to do the best that you can for your husband. You try to show him God’s love. You try to point him in the right direction. It is your cross to bear, year after year, after year. Now suppose you are really in love with someone else, but you deny yourself, because you put God first, and you don’t want to threaten that person’s sanctity or your own. I think you would only hope that heaven is not a continuation of relationships on earth.

I’m sorry but what Deacon Ed was writing up above about first marriages being the real marriage and second marriages just being “help-mates” to get around celibacy issues, that is just making me very, very sad.

I know I need to just trust God, that His plan is better than anything I could ever conceive of.

 

[Mt19_26]

dulcissima:

What if you are suffering through this life in a bad marriage. You try to do the best that you can for your husband. You try to show him God’s love. You try to point him in the right direction. It is your cross to bear, year after year, after year. Now suppose you are really in love with someone else, but you deny yourself, because you put God first, and you don’t want to threaten that person’s sanctity or your own. I think you would only hope that heaven is not a continuation of relationships on earth.

I don’t think it’s really love (in the case of that someone else) but more of an infatuation. Love involves much more than feelings and unless you are around that person often you can’t really say you are in love.

dulcissima:

I’m sorry but what Deacon Ed was writing up above about first marriages being the real marriage and second marriages just being “help-mates” to get around celibacy issues, that is just making me very, very sad.

I know I need to just trust God, that His plan is better than anything I could ever conceive of.

The Church has always discouraged second marriages in the event that your spouse has died. About a year ago while reading about marriage I stumbled across some early Church documents (or maybe it was quotes from Early Church Fathers) explaining why second-marriages were discouraged. I don’t remember the link to the documents but if I find it I’ll post it here.

I do remember a qoute in regards to second marriages saying, “why restart something that God has but an end to”.