After-Death Communication?

[Tom2705]

My sister of 39 years passed away in February of this year. I was very sad at this loss, but after her many painful years battling two separate bouts with cancer and other physical aliments, I was also grateful to God for giving her rest. My parents though, were understandably more hurt by this than I, she was their only daughter. Their grief has lasted longer than I would like but I understand that these things take time. I am very concerned about some reports that a relative recently gave to my mother. This relative said that she encountered a stranger in a hair salon that claimed to have heard from my sister. This relative said that the stranger knew my sisters name and the name of this relative’s small child. The relative then goes on to tell my mother that her small child (3 years old) has been visited by my sister in dreams on a regular basis. Needless to say, this is very exciting to my mother who is still grieving the loss of her daughter. What is the Catholic position after death communication?

 

[Magicsilence]

no, no, no, no, no, no

but maybe yes.

\

 

[Tom2705]

What scares me, is the fact that when we grieve, we are more susceptible to this kind of thing. My mother is a life long Catholic. I’d really like to know what the church’s position on this is so that I could present her with it

 

[Madia]

From the Catechism:

2116 All forms of *divination *are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future.48 Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.

2117 All practices of *magic *or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. *Spiritism *often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c1a1.htm

 

[Nonie]

Hi,
I had this same question a few years ago. I searched and searched for an answer if it was wrong to listen to Physics or mediums etc. I found this info difficult to find. I did find out that Divination (The art or act of foretelling future events or revealing occult knowledge by means of augury or an alleged supernatural agency) was wrong in the eyes of the Chuch. BUT this does not include contacting the spiritual world it would seem. I read a part of John Edwards book and he is Catholic and said that although his work as a medium is not forbidden in the Chuch it is generally looked down upon. (don’t quote me on that one I don’t have the book in front of me).

Here is the link to Aquinas’ thoughts on Divination, think this is the closest thing to communication with the dead that the Church talks about. newadvent.org/cathen/05048b.htm

Hope this isn’t a big “no no” It is comforting to think that your lost relative may contact you someday and you won’t feel uncomfortable saying “hello” back

 

[I_A]

Danger!

Do you not recall King Saul and the whitch of Endor?

From my undestadning, the dead, by God’s power may contact you. Evil spirits may contact you pretending to be deceased relatives. Under no circumstances are you to seek spirits, they just might not be the ones you are looking for. That type of thing opens you up greatly to assults by Satan.

 

[thistle]

Nonie:

Hi,
I had this same question a few years ago. I searched and searched for an answer if it was wrong to listen to Physics or mediums etc. I found this info difficult to find. I did find out that Divination (The art or act of foretelling future events or revealing occult knowledge by means of augury or an alleged supernatural agency) was wrong in the eyes of the Chuch. BUT this does not include contacting the spiritual world it would seem. I read a part of John Edwards book and he is Catholic and said that although his work as a medium is not forbidden in the Chuch it is generally looked down upon. (don’t quote me on that one I don’t have the book in front of me).

Here is the link to Aquinas’ thoughts on Divination, think this is the closest thing to communication with the dead that the Church talks about. newadvent.org/cathen/05048b.htm

Hope this isn’t a big “no no” It is comforting to think that your lost relative may contact you someday and you won’t feel uncomfortable saying “hello” back

Madia quoted the two relevenat parts of the CCC for you. You can see that the Church is clear that trying to contact the dead and recourse to mediums is forbidden. This is a teaching of the Church. It doesn’t matter what any person says in a book, even if he is Catholic. He is not the authority. The Church is.

 

[Sherlock]

This has the potential for being dangerous stuff. Your mother should talk to a good priest about this.

 

[Nonie]

thistle:

Madia quoted the two relevenat parts of the CCC for you. You can see that the Church is clear that trying to contact the dead and recourse to mediums is forbidden. This is a teaching of the Church. It doesn’t matter what any person says in a book, even if he is Catholic. He is not the authority. The Church is.

What if they were contacting you?

 

[thistle]

Nonie:

What if they were contacting you?

You mean directly or through a medium?? In either case it is likely to be satan up to his tricks.

When someone dies their soul is immediately judged and they are either condemned (to hell) or saved (purgatory/heaven). There are no souls who have not crossed over because of unfinished business.
Sometimes for reasons unknown to us God allows us to glimpse a soul in purgatory but that is not a communication.
If anyone tells you a dead relative is trying to contact you, you should not believe them.

 

[Sir_Knight]

thistle:

Sometimes for reasons unknown to us God allows us to glimpse a soul in purgatory but that is not a communication.

I have been reading the lives of the saints and this reminds me of one particular story. It seems that a ghostly apparition was seen from time to time in a church. Don’t recall the particular details but it turned out that the apparition was that of a priest who served in that church and died 70 years earlier. Since it was such a long time ago, he had been forgotten and no longer had anyone to pray for his soul which was still trapped in purgatory.

 

[Nonie]

thistle:

You mean directly or through a medium?? In either case it is likely to be satan up to his tricks.

When someone dies their soul is immediately judged and they are either condemned (to hell) or saved (purgatory/heaven). There are no souls who have not crossed over because of unfinished business.
Sometimes for reasons unknown to us God allows us to glimpse a soul in purgatory but that is not a communication.
If anyone tells you a dead relative is trying to contact you, you should not believe them.

Hi Thistle,
My train of thought was it wouldn’t be like you were communicating with the dead if someone approached you (like the person who started this thread) and told you about dreams etc they had that included your dead family member. But you are probably right…the devil is very tricky and the less of this you do the better.
Thanks for the info!
I didn’t know you could glimpse a soul in purgatory. That is very interesting.
Have a Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[thistle]

Nonie:

Thistle,
You are probably right.
Thanks for the info!
I didn’t know you could glimpse a soul in purgatory. That is interesting.
Have a Happy Thanksgiving!

Happy Thanksgiving to you too.

 

[mikew262]

thistle:

You mean directly or through a medium?? In either case it is likely to be satan up to his tricks.

When someone dies their soul is immediately judged and they are either condemned (to hell) or saved (purgatory/heaven). There are no souls who have not crossed over because of unfinished business.
Sometimes for reasons unknown to us God allows us to glimpse a soul in purgatory but that is not a communication.
If anyone tells you a dead relative is trying to contact you, you should not believe them.

The bottom line is that nobody really knows. How do you know it’s Satan? You don’t know. What if spirits who are in Purgatory can be reached sometimes by a bonifide medium?

Sure, there are many phonies out there that prey upon people, but I also believe there are some people with a real gift (or curse) that can possibly communicate with spirits. Maybe this gift came from God. Remember humans only use about 20% of their brain
capacity. There is no way of knowing what we would be capable of, if we used 100%. Perhaps our untapped capacity would allow us to communicate with some spirits. Of course, this is just speculation, buts that’s the point, I don’t really know, and neither does anybody else.

Just because we don’t understand something or have never experienced it, doesn’t mean it’s evil. Remember, the horrible witch burnings centuries ago? It stemed from the ignorance of the people of that day, not from anything evil that the women did.

 

[thistle]

mikew262:

The bottom line is that nobody really knows. How do you know it’s Satan? You don’t know. What if spirits who are in Purgatory can be reached sometimes by a bonifide medium?

Sure, there are many phonies out there that prey upon people, but I also believe there are some people with a real gift (or curse) that can possibly communicate with spirits. Maybe this gift came from God. Remember humans only use about 20% of their brain
capacity. There is no way of knowing what we would be capable of, if we used 100%. Perhaps our untapped capacity would allow us to communicate with some spirits. Of course, this is just speculation, buts that’s the point, I don’t really know, and neither does anybody else.

Just because we don’t understand something or have never experienced it, doesn’t mean it’s evil. Remember, the horrible witch burnings centuries ago? It stemed from the ignorance of the people of that day, not from anything evil that the women did.

There is no such thing as a bone fide medium. Attempting to communicate with the dead through mediums is a mortal sin.
CCC 2116 makes it absolutely clear that this is forbidden by the Church. Everyone who is a Catholic must believe and accept it. Refusing to accept ALL the teachings of the Church is also a mortal sin.

 

[mikew262]

thistle:

There is no such thing as a bone fide medium. Attempting to communicate with the dead through mediums is a mortal sin.
CCC 2116 makes it absolutely clear that this is forbidden by the Church. Everyone who is a Catholic must believe and accept it. Refusing to accept ALL the teachings of the Church is also a mortal sin.

Well, I don’t want to be suspended from the forum, so I won’t offer any further opinion on this subject.

 

[Sir_Knight]

thistle:

There is no such thing as a bone fide medium…

Yes, there are. The bible says so.

thistle:

Attempting to communicate with the dead through mediums is a mortal sin.

Yes, it is a mortal sin. The bible says so as well.

 

[mikew262]

thistle:

There is no such thing as a bone fide medium. Attempting to communicate with the dead through mediums is a mortal sin.
CCC 2116 makes it absolutely clear that this is forbidden by the Church. Everyone who is a Catholic must believe and accept it. Refusing to accept ALL the teachings of the Church is also a mortal sin.

I won’t dispute what Church Law says about utilizing Mediums. However, where does it say anywhere that not accepting all the teachings (including using Mediums) of the Church is a mortal sin?

According to Catechism:

1857
For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131

1858
Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

1862
One commits venial sin when, in a less serious matter, he does not observe the standard prescribed by the moral law, or when he disobeys the moral law in a grave matter, but without full knowledge or without complete consent.

LAW, MORAL: A rule of conduct established by competent authority for the common good. In biblical terms, the moral law is the fatherly instruction of God, setting forth the ways which lead to happiness and proscribing those which lead to evil.

Grave Matter deals with violation of the 10 Commandments, not Church Law, thus violation of Church law is NOT a mortal sin. Based on the definition of Venial Sin and moral law, one could make a case of church law violation being a venial sin.

 

[Sir_Knight]

mikew262:

where does it say anywhere that not accepting all the teachings (including using Mediums) of the Church is a mortal sin?

According to Catechism:

1857
For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131

1858
Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

1862
One commits venial sin when, in a less serious matter, he does not observe the standard prescribed by the moral law, or when he disobeys the moral law in a grave matter, but without full knowledge or without complete consent.

LAW, MORAL: A rule of conduct established by competent authority for the common good. In biblical terms, the moral law is the fatherly instruction of God, setting forth the ways which lead to happiness and proscribing those which lead to evil.

Grave Matter deals with violation of the 10 Commandments, not Church Law, thus violation of Church law is NOT a mortal sin. Based on the definition of Venial Sin and moral law, one could make a case of church law violation being a venial sin.

Using “Mediums” is an offense against the first commandment and according to your own definition, that is a mortal sin.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Sir Knight:

I have been reading the lives of the saints and this reminds me of one particular story. It seems that a ghostly apparition was seen from time to time in a church. Don’t recall the particular details but it turned out that the apparition was that of a priest who served in that church and died 70 years earlier. Since it was such a long time ago, he had been forgotten and no longer had anyone to pray for his soul which was still trapped in purgatory.

Story correction and story reference can be found here.