After Easter Mass this morning being confronted by liberals.

[Malkin71]

Something happened to me after Mass this morning. I am a Lector at my Parish. I was confronted by two of our choir members about the way I lector. Let me tell you about myself. The reason why I became a lector was I was tired of seing lectors dress and perform sloppy. Some lectors you can not even hear them at all. Some do not dress properly. Being trained as an Altar boy I thought I could do a good job and bring respect back.

When I am lectoring ,I try to speak loud and clear so the the people in the last row can hear. I do get comments from people that I am the only one that they can hear in the last row. I always wear a suit and tie. If we would have Surplus and Casocks I would wear them. I make a point to strike my chest during the Confetitor and bow during the words of “By the power of the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary…” I genuflect when Approaching the Altar towards the Tabernacle. Now during the petitions I make changes when they refer to the Altar as a “Table”, and when they say a “Comunion Meal, or Communial Gathering” I change it to the Holy Sacrafice of Mass. I DO NOT CHANGE ANY of the WORDS of SCRIPTURE! I read it VERBATIUM. I do say This is the Word of the Word and forget to say Sisters before the second reading. This is what some liberals have a problem with me.

Two members of the choir apprached me and questioned me about it. One of them always walks up to the Altar opens the Tabernacle and stands by the Priest during the 'Lamb of God" while everyone else is kneeling.

I explained to them I am a Conservative Traditionailst who does not like the Liberal influences of Feminisim and Modernism. They said the Blessed Mother said it was ok and that I should talk to people who are more Different minded and I would see. I also mentioned that they should not change the words of the Agnus Dei and add words to it. I know this got under their skin.

I mentioned last week Our Priest skipped the Homily on Palm Sunday. They just ignored it. All I am trying to do is have a proper O.F. and stop all the nonsense that goes on. Not to brag, I like to mention I am always saying a couple of Rosary’s at the Fatima grotto in front of our Church and before Mass. I am also a member of the Pittsburgh Latin Mass Community. When I do go there I am at peace and feel at home.

Who is wrong? Am I doing something wrong? I do get compliments too.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Something happened to me after Mass this morning. I am a Lector at my Parish. I was confronted by two of our choir members about the way I lector…

How to take this is an interesting question.

On the one hand you could probably make the argument that hearing something from a couple of choir members isn’t all that important and that if you were doing something wrong, your priest would tell you about it.

On the other hand, I know that when people approach my pastor about other parishioners, his first question is whether they have approached the person directly. He prefers that people resolve issues without “running to daddy.”

So perhaps it’s worth considering their objections.

When I am lectoring ,I try to speak loud and clear so the the people in the last row can hear. I do get comments from people that I am the only one that they can hear in the last row.

This sounds reasonable to me unless you overwhelm the sound system so that you cannot be generally understood. Did the choir members say anything like that?

I always wear a suit and tie.

This also sounds reasonable to me. What was the objection of the choir members?

I make a point to strike my chest during the Confetitor and bow during the words of “By the power of the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary…”

These are the gestures we are supposed to make. What was the objection of the choir members?

I genuflect when Approaching the Altar towards the Tabernacle.

In my parish ministers have been asked to reverence the altar or tabernacle only at the beginning or end of Mass and otherwise bow their heads when approaching the altar. Is this also the practice in your parish? Is that why the choir members objected?

Now during the petitions I make changes when they refer to the Altar as a “Table”, and when they say a “Comunion Meal, or Communial Gathering” I change it to the Holy Sacrafice of Mass.

Wow! In my parish you would change the petitions once and would be corrected by the priest. If you changed them a second time you would cease to be scheduled. However, I would assume the priest knows what the wording was supposed to be but I’d be surprised if the choir members did. How did they even know they should object to this?

It sounds like perhaps they are picking up more on your attitude than your actual actions. The title you gave this thread is an indication: “being confronted by liberals.” Perhaps you should instead have said something like “being corrected by my brothers and sisters in Christ.” Would that lead you to see things any differently?

 

[jmcrae]

Unless you are studying for the priesthood, you are a “lay reader”; not a “lector.” You should wear ordinary clothing; not a surplice and cassock.

Service to your priest is about being humble and doing as you are told; not about lording around in a parade of your own wonderfulness.

One assumes that Father has read the commentary sheet and prayers of the faithful, and has approved them. Once he has approved them, you read them as written - you don’t “fix” them on your own authority. (After all, you would not like it if they were correctly written, and then someone came along and changed the wording to something incorrect, on their own authority. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.)

Take up your issues with the use of language with Father in a private meeting in his office. You can certainly take that time to point out the correct names for things, and ask that he write the correct names, rather than “dumbing-down” the language.

 

[damooster]

I mean this in the nicest manner possible: you are coming across as arrogant.

I question the need to tell us that you always wear a suit and tie, that you pray the rosary before Mass, and that you are a member of the Latin Mass community. How do these things pertain to the confrontation that you had (in other words, it sounds like you’re qualifying yourself)? Lastly, I understand why you would want to change something in the petitions, but I agree with jmcrae: they were approved by the Father. If you don’t agree with the petitions, maybe you shouldn’t be reading them?

I do like you standing up for yourself when approached by the “liberals,” but I’m confused: did they come at you in an accusatory manner, or in a questioning manner? From the way you described it, they were just asking questions (but I wasn’t there to witness).

Take my statements with a grain of salt: I’m still learning about this stuff (just baptized and confirmed last night). My observations are from a purely spectator point of view. And you did ask.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

I don’t know how the folks who talked with you were necessarily ‘liberals’. Particularly since liberalism itself is not a bad thing.

You could have admonished the objectors to be more liberal, i.e. accepting of folks’ differences.

 

[malphono]

I wasn’t there either, but it doesn’t come across as “arrogant” to me at all. But trying to find a “reform of the reform” OF is an uphill trek. Even more so trying to induce it where it doesn’t exist. Were it me, I wouldn’t go uphill: much easier to stick to the EF.

 

[Salonika]

This is the first Easter I have been part of this group and I am amazed at the number of posts (including on this thread) that are about what the posters consider to be abuses, wrongly done aspects of services, disrespect etc at services.

On Good Friday I stopped reading these posts as they were distracting me from the day.

Came back this morning to find more threads this time relating to the Easter Vigil and Easter Sunday services.

I understand and feel for those who get distracted (I too get distracted by people talking, moving around, bad reading) but how we handle it does matter. Been judgemental and assuming anyone commenting is being critical does not help. Assuming our way is the only way is also not helpful.

I would be more open to the views of those who like/want/need things to be done in the traditional way if they also accepted that others find other ways more meaningful. Also sometimes it seems to me some traditional people put form above intention - we cannot read other people’s hears and others cannot read ours.

Malkin71:

The reason why I became a lector was I was tired of seeing lectors dress and perform sloppy … I thought I could do a good job and bring respect back.

I am sure that people are grateful for being able to hear when you read - I know I would be. But I wonder if some of the reaction you get is the second reasons you give for taking on the role - to bring back respect.

I know I would feel very hesitant to read in front of you in case I did something “wrong”.

Also people show respect in different ways and sometimes this causes problems. When I ask about the content of a sermon I am showing respect (it has to be worth asking about). Sometimes the recipient takes this as criticism or lack of respect.

Malkin71:

Two members of the choir approached me and questioned me about it. One of them always walks up to the Altar opens the Tabernacle and stands by the Priest during the 'Lamb of God" while everyone else is kneeling.

Just becasue someone else does things differently does not make their opinion or someone else’s or invalid.

Malkin71:

I explained to them I am a Conservative Traditionalist who does not like the Liberal influences of Feminism and Modernism. They said the Blessed Mother said it was ok and that I should talk to people who are more Different minded and I would see. I also mentioned that they should not change the words of the Agnus Dei and add words to it. I know this got under their skin.

On Easter Sunday don’t think this was the time for this discussion and it seems it is an ongoing one. Maybe the time for all to agree to disagree.

Malkin71:

All I am trying to do is have a proper O.F. and stop all the nonsense that goes on. Not to brag, I like to mention I am always saying a couple of Rosary’s at the Fatima grotto in front of our Church and before Mass. I am also a member of the Pittsburgh Latin Mass Community. When I do go there I am at peace and feel at home.

I’m not surprised that you find the Latin Mass more to your tastes and personality. Frankly I find something that is basically the same all the time difficult to handle. But that’s me and my personality.

Malkin71:

Who is wrong? Am I doing something wrong? I do get compliments too.

Of course you get compliments for the things you do well and that other people value. However, I do wonder if your zeal for things to be done as well as they can gets in the way.

Also its impossible to be perfect and while your very high standards may inspire some people they may discourage others. One of my uncles was a perfectionist and getting my thank you letter for Christmas money back corrected made me wish that he had not sent it. However, much I rewrote it and mum corrected it was never up to his high standards.

 

[Malkin71]

How to take this is an interesting question.

On the one hand you could probably make the argument that hearing something from a couple of choir members isn’t all that important and that if you were doing something wrong, your priest would tell you about it.

On the other hand, I know that when people approach my pastor about other parishioners, his first question is whether they have approached the person directly. He prefers that people resolve issues without “running to daddy.”

So perhaps it’s worth considering their objections.

This sounds reasonable to me unless you overwhelm the sound system so that you cannot be generally understood. Did the choir members say anything like that?

This also sounds reasonable to me. What was the objection of the choir members?

These are the gestures we are supposed to make. What was the objection of the choir members?

In my parish ministers have been asked to reverence the altar or tabernacle only at the beginning or end of Mass and otherwise bow their heads when approaching the altar. Is this also the practice in your parish? Is that why the choir members objected?

Wow! In my parish you would change the petitions once and would be corrected by the priest. If you changed them a second time you would cease to be scheduled. However, I would assume the priest knows what the wording was supposed to be but I’d be surprised if the choir members did. How did they even know they should object to this?

It sounds like perhaps they are picking up more on your attitude than your actual actions. The title you gave this thread is an indication: “being confronted by liberals.” Perhaps you should instead have said something like “being corrected by my brothers and sisters in Christ.” Would that lead you to see things any differently?

If I came across as arrogant, I am sorry. I just tried to paint a picture. The reason why they confronted me is because I did not say the word “SISTERS” before the second reading. That is it.

Our Petitions are not written down. The petitions are from a book that the parish gets from some publisher. The reason why I make the change is to remind the parish that we as Catholics attend the Holy Sacrafice of Mass not a “Communion meal or a gathering” and the Altar is not a “Table” I just reword the petition. Our Petitions are not written down.

The point I was trying to make is I am trying to show respect by reverence. The ones who question me do have progressive and liberal Catholic views in the Church. I have had discussions with them in the past and they think that anything before VII is stone age and outdated. I could go into much detail. I have talked to other women of the Parish and they think if by not saying the word “Sisters” before the second reading offends them, they need help.

 

[damooster]

The ones who question me do have progressive and liberal Catholic views in the Church. I have had discussions with them in the past and they think that anything before VII is stone age and outdated.

I understand where you’re coming from here. My parish is like this and, even though I’m grateful for all they’ve done, I will be attending another parish from now on. So I understand how the “progressiveness” can be disheartening.

I could go into much detail. I have talked to other women of the Parish and they think if by not saying the word “Sisters” before the second reading offends them, they need help.

I agree with them.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

If I came across as arrogant, I am sorry. I just tried to paint a picture. The reason why they confronted me is because I did not say the word “SISTERS” before the second reading. That is it.

Were you supposed to say it? That is, was the word “sisters” included in the text in front of you?

If it was included in the written text, then your job was to read it. Neither you nor I have the authority to change what we are given to read. If it was not in the written text and you chose not to add it, then you did the right thing. Just as you are not authorized to add to the next, you are not authorized to delete from the text.

Our Petitions are not written down. The petitions are from a book that the parish gets from some publisher.

If a publisher publishes them I think we can assume they are written down. And since your pastor has selected the material from that particular publisher that is what you are authorized to read.

Changing the words you have been given to read strikes me as a huge abuse. It is quite simply not your job to make those decisions. As I said earlier, if you did that in my parish you would be corrected and it would be made clear that you are not to do it again. If you did it again you would no longer be put on the schedule.

The reason why I make the change is to remind the parish that we as Catholics attend the Holy Sacrafice of Mass not a “Communion meal or a gathering” and the Altar is not a “Table” I just reword the petition. Our Petitions are not written down.

Why do you keep saying they’re not written down? You’re reading text on a page, aren’t you?

The point I was trying to make is I am trying to show respect by reverence. The ones who question me do have progressive and liberal Catholic views in the Church. I have had discussions with them in the past and they think that anything before VII is stone age and outdated. I could go into much detail. I have talked to other women of the Parish and they think if by not saying the word “Sisters” before the second reading offends them, they need help.

It sounds like there are attitude problems on both sides. That doesn’t justify either side making unauthorized changes in the texts they are given to read.

 

[Kara8]

I for one, think that it is far from arrogant for you to try to lead others to being more reverent of the Holy Sacrifice. I think that you should not bother yourself with the comments made by these choir members and if you are really questioning whether changing the words to the petitions (which doesn’t seem like such a big deal at all once you mention that they aren’t even written down- are you expected to memorize them or something?), or anything else is correct, you should ask your priest. In the meantime, thank you for setting an example of respect and reverence in church. I wish we had more of you at my parish.

 

[Tedster]

If the priest has not approached you in the way you serve, maybe, just maybe, he is in support of you and needs your help. If he does not support you, he will ask you to change your way.

I think many priests feel like they are in a uphill battle against these “liberals” and cannot win by themselves and fear to rock the boat, so they give in to keep the peace.

Keep up the good work, and do it for the Glory of God, above all things!

 

[Ockham]

As Catholics we have an obligation to maintain the traditions of the Church. The Church’s authority is based on Scripture and Tradition. Small ‘t’ traditions matter just as much as large because externals affect internals; as you pray you believe. “Liberals” usually have ulterior motives and hidden agendas. They are never so intolerant as when confronted by traditions.

 

[Cat]

Do you ask the priest before Mass if it is OK if you change the words?

I play piano for Masses, and occasionally a cantor will not know a hymn or would prefer to use a different Mass setting. We go and ask the priest before we make the change.

Also, I hope I can phrase this nicely. Someone else alluded to it in a post above, and I agree. As far as I know, the petitions are not a part of the liturgy that is set and unchangeable, so the priest can choose what he thinks is best for his congregation, and changes can be made. Perhaps you feel that the words are “dumbed down” or “not reverent enough.” But someone else (in fact, most people) in the congregation may feel just the opposite–that the words lift them up into the heavenlies and that they are very worshipful. Perhaps the words that you are using are confusing to people, or maybe they don’t understand them because they haven’t been involved in the traditions that you have come from. After all, if I used a lot of “evangelical Protestant phrases” when reading the petitions, there are many Catholics that would have no idea what I’m saying and would probably be offended.

The PRIEST has made the choice based on his knowledge of his people, and you probably shouldn’t make changes to his choice without checking with him. He knows these people, and I’m betting that you don’t.

Maybe if you ask him, he’ll give you the OK, and also speak of these words in his homily and explain to his congregation. Then you would have done a good service to all.

And I’m far from being a feminist–very opposed!–but I have to admit, I don’t think I would like it if someone just addressed the congregation as “brothers” and didn’t say “sisters.” The way I see it, I’m not a brother. I’m a woman, and that makes me a sister. St. Paul refers to his “sisters in Christ.” If it was good enough for St. Paul…

 

[Ockham]

“Liberals” usually have ulterior motives and hidden agendas. They are never so intolerant as when confronted by traditions.

“He knows these people, and I’m betting that you don’t.”

 

[BayernAnhaenger]

I love how the responses in the “Traditional Catholicism” section are anything but traditional, in this and a few other threads.

Seriously makes me wonder why CAF even bothers having a TradCath section.

Edit:
OP - Find yourself a good traditional parish that offers the Extraordinary Form.

 

[Ockham]

Brick by brick, brother.

 

[Cat]

“He knows these people, and I’m betting that you don’t.”

I don’t understand why you picked this sentence out of my post. ?? Did I say something offensive?

I will freely admit that I know a mere fraction of the thousand or so people that attend each Mass at our parish, but I know for a fact that our priests know many of these people personally. Obviously perhaps the OP does know many of the people in the parish, and then I would be wrong about him, and that’s great!–I wish I knew more people in my parish. I try to meet people as much as I can, but I’m still rather distrustful.

 

[Ockham]

Offensive? No. Presumptuous? Yes.

How do you know the OP’s priest knows the congregation better than he or she does? Also, we have a formal system of traditional practices for the Mass. A priest breaking them is committing liturgical abuse just like anyone else guilty of making their own Mass.

A larger perspective and less prejudices would help your conclusions.

 

[Joannm]

According to the Lectionay for Mass, many of the readings from St. Paul are begun with “Brothers and Sisters.” The lector has no right to omit “sisters” since it is written in the Lectionary. Also, the proper ending to the reading is “The Word of the Lord.” Not “This is the Word of the Lord.” The reason it was changed was to make it faithful to the Latin. As a Traditionalist you would want that, wouldn’t you?

I must also ask, how old are you. You said you went from being an altar server to a lector. Those who complain also might be thinking that it is quite arrogant for a young person to be taking his or her own initiative to change things. If I am wrong about your age I apologize.

I moderate the lectors in my parish, and if they did the things you do I would have a sit down with them and tell them to only read what is written and not to add or subtract anything if they want to keep doing their ministry.