After Easter Mass this morning being confronted by liberals.

[BayernAnhaenger]

Perhaps you and Ockham know better than the Church does. Maybe you should write to the Holy Father and point out that his lack of withrawl of the indult is leading Catholics in error. Let me know what he says.

Peace

Tim

Didn’t you (or some other poster) tell us to do this like, 2 pages ago?

And trust me, it’ll be a great day when the Holy Father removes the indult.

 

[Orogeny]

Didn’t you (or some other poster) tell us to do this like, 2 pages ago?

And trust me, it’ll be a great day when the Holy Father removes the indult.

Could have been me. How is the letter coming?

Peace

Tim

 

[BayernAnhaenger]

Could have been me. How is the letter coming?

Peace

Tim

Not too good. I’m investing that time to praying to Mary that the Holy Father does so. Her intercession will do more than any letter of mine could EVER do.

 

[Orogeny]

Not too good. I’m investing that time to praying to Mary that the Holy Father does so. Her intercession will do more than any letter of mine could EVER do.

Well, perhaps Her intercession and your letter will do the trick. It is always nice to get instructions from someone more knowledgeable on the subject and since he (the Holy Father) is clearly not listening to the voice of the Holy Spirit, perhaps your letter would be the tool used by Our Lady.

Peace

Tim

 

[Califman831]

I don’t know what to say about many things regarding this matter, but the suit and tie seems to be appropriate clothing for the occasion as long as there are no vibrant ties or scarves. I agree that many people are too relaxed on the clothing (e.g. flip flops, shorts with untucked polos, t-shirts, etc.)

hopefully you have yet to experience tank tops :nope:

I swear the ladies are starting to resemble mary magalene before her conversion.

 

[jmcrae]

What does it mean to 'assist at Mass’? Like, I am an altar server so obviously I assist the priest but not everyone at mass is expected to actually provide assistance, right?

We “assist at Mass” by joining our prayers to those of the priest, and by paying attention to the readings and homily. It is our prayers going up to Heaven that assist the Mass.

If we are also asked to help out the priest by reading, serving at the Altar, or in some other way that makes his job easier, this is in addition to assisting at Mass - when the Council asked for full, conscious and active participation of the faithful at Mass, it was not visualizing the entire congregation getting up and going on to the Sanctuary to do various tasks for the priest - no. Rather, “full, conscious, and active participation” on the part of the laity refers to praying the prayers of the Mass with full attention to their meaning (ie: not rattling them off by rote while thinking of something else) and engaging our full attention on the readings and on the homily.

 

[TMC]

I am not sure I agree here. Paul wrote letters to Churches in different places, Probably the letter would have been intended for Church leadership. None of which were females. then you have the whole issue of when adressing a group of people in that time no one included women. Not even the political leaders. “Countrymen… Blah blah blah.” Women were probably expected to follow the direction of leading men. In today’s time I think it quite prudent to address brothers and sisters. But to imply that it is somehow the Word of God is probably disingenuous. Someone for the love of Pete, find what the original language of Pauls letters say.
Again, I believe it should be read as it is in the letionary… Brothers and Sisters but Knowing what I know of Paul, the Bible, and ECF, Brothers and Sisters is probably not what Paul said… I could be wrong and I would not be ofended if I was and someone corected me.

Paul’s letters were written to the entire Church community, not just to the Church leaders. Even if they were not, Paul clearly considered women to be among the leaders of the Church. He names twenty-nine early Church leaders in Romans 16, many of them (probably ten) are women.

 

[davymax3]

Paul’s letters were written to the entire Church community, not just to the Church leaders. Even if they were not, Paul clearly considered women to be among the leaders of the Church. He names twenty-nine early Church leaders in Romans 16, many of them (probably ten) are women.

If that’s true then I think it would be more appropriate to use “Brothers and Sisters” as the use of “brothers” won’t be interpreted by most to include women.

 

[jmcrae]

If that’s true then I think it would be more appropriate to use “Brothers and Sisters” as the use of “brothers” won’t be interpreted by most to include women.

Right, I agree.

 

[Malkin71]

NB:
IT DOESN’T MATTER A FIG WHAT SAINT PAUL WROTE!

The line in question is not part of St Paul’s writing – It is a deliberate addition to the

APPROVED LECTIONARY

for use in the United States!

IT IS WHAT THE USCCB, WITH THE EXPRESS APPROVAL OF THE HOLY SEE, INTENDS TO BE READ AT MASS!

*Sheesh *-- How hard is it to grasp this???

tee

If it doesn’t matter what St. Paul wrote why is it in the Bible and read at Mass?

Also, people need to stop getting offended if we do not include every walk of life when we talk.

Should we change the creed from “For us men” to “for us”? So not to offend? I have seen it done!

 

[Malkin71]

To make clear: While reception in the hand may be common, it is not the norm. Reception on the tongue is the norm, and reception in the hand is an indult.

That being said, however, as dubious as the establishment of the practice may have been, the fact remains that reception in the hand is a legitimate option in some places and allowed by legitimate authorities and is each communicant’s choice. cf *Redemptionis Sacramentum *(with

emphasis

added):

:twocents: I would hope that if anyone would present himself to the holy father, wishing to receive in the hand, his holiness would honor his choice (or do the right thing and withdraw the indulgence from the Vatican City State and/or Diocese of Rome) :twocents:

tee

It would be more of an insult if The Pope wants it this way. Also, if someone who is fortunate enough to receive Holy Communion from him should kneel and receive in the mouth. NOT EVERYBODY who is at Mass can receive Holy Communion from the Pope.

 

[Orogeny]

If it doesn’t matter what St. Paul wrote why is it in the Bible and read at Mass?

Also, people need to stop getting offended if we do not include every walk of life when we talk.

Should we change the creed from “For us men” to “for us”? So not to offend? I have seen it done!

Tee is right. You shouldn’t change the wording of the lectionary because you have no authority to do so. If you don’t think you can avoid doing that, you should remove yourself as a lay reader.

Peace

Tim

 

[Malkin71]

Tee is right. You shouldn’t change the wording of the lectionary because you have no authority to do so. If you don’t think you can avoid doing that, you should remove yourself as a lay reader.

Peace

Tim

So in other words, let all the other abuses take hold, "opening the tabernacle and taking the Precious Hots to the altar, standing by the Priest during the Lamb of God while all is kneeling, Putting the Hosts into other Chalaces, Putting them back into the Tabernacle, adding words to Lamb of God."These should be the norm and report me, tell me to step down because people Gender Inclusiveness, political correctiveness has invaded and infected the Church while respect and adoration has gone astray? The smoke of Satan has indeed come into the Church!

 

[Matt33]

Paul’s letters were written to the entire Church community, not just to the Church leaders. Even if they were not, Paul clearly considered women to be among the leaders of the Church. He names twenty-nine early Church leaders in Romans 16, many of them (probably ten) are women.

Hey, thanks… Good point and an interesting read.

 

[tee_eff_em]

If it doesn’t matter what St. Paul wrote why is it in the Bible and read at Mass?

Allow me to clarify:

With respect to the words “Brothers and sisters:”, it does not matter what St Paul wrote. Those are not St Paul’s words. No informed person would claim that they are.

However they are part of the approved Lectionary text – A deliberately inserted addition.
They are to be read.
Anyone outside the magesterium of the Church claiming otherwise does so erroneously.

The words “[This is] The word of the Lord” were neither written by St Paul – Why are they read?

tee

 

[davymax3]

So in other words, let all the other abuses take hold, "opening the tabernacle and taking the Precious Hots to the altar, standing by the Priest during the Lamb of God while all is kneeling, Putting the Hosts into other Chalaces, Putting them back into the Tabernacle, adding words to Lamb of God."These should be the norm and report me, tell me to step down because people Gender Inclusiveness, political correctiveness has invaded and infected the Church while respect and adoration has gone astray? The smoke of Satan has indeed come into the Church!

No, if it is indeed that terrible you should formally complain to your Bishop. We can’t choose are parents, yet God commands us to obey them. When you become ordained in the church you take a vow of obedience. Thus, you must obey. If you didn’t want to obey you shouldn’t have taken that vow. And if you’re priest is forcing you to do something that you know without a doubt is wrong tell your Bishop.

 

[tee_eff_em]

:twocents: I would hope that if anyone would present himself to the holy father, wishing to receive in the hand, his holiness would honor his choice (or do the right thing and withdraw the indulgence from the Vatican City State and/or Diocese of Rome) :twocents:

I don’t disagree with this statement but I would rather turn it around. I would hope that a Catholic knowing the wish of the Holy Father to recieve from him kneeling and on the tounge (I think a direct product of the WYD fiasco last year) would in fact honor that prefverence by the Vicar of Christ. OTOH I would be ironic to see Pelosi kneeling out of the Pope’s preference.

It would be more of an insult if The Pope wants it this way. Also, if someone who is fortunate enough to receive Holy Communion from him should kneel and receive in the mouth. NOT EVERYBODY who is at Mass can receive Holy Communion from the Pope.

NB: I make no judgment nor advocate for the prudence of such an approach. I’m just sayin: The documents of the Church say in some circumstances the faithful have the right to receive on the tongue or in the hand at his own choosing.

I can hope the faithful would submit his mind and will to the apparent preference of the holy father, and at the same time hope the holy father would respect the rights of the faithful.

tee

 

[davymax3]

NB: I’m just sayin: The documents of the Church say in some circumstances the faithful have the right to receive on the tongue or in the hand at his own choosing.

Don’t think it’s a “right.” They have the privilege or the right to not be denied by the priest on that basis… Something like that. But, not the right to reception on hand. That’s a bit inaccurate imo.

 

[tee_eff_em]

So in other words, let all the other abuses

*]

take hold, "opening the tabernacle and taking the Precious Hots to the altar, standing by the Priest during the Lamb of God while all is kneeling, Putting the Hosts into other Chalaces, Putting them back into the Tabernacle, adding words to Lamb of God."These should be the norm and report me, tell me to step down because people Gender Inclusiveness, political correctiveness has invaded and infected the Church while respect and adoration has gone astray? The smoke of Satan has indeed come into the Church!

• Surely you do not mean to imply that the text of the Lectionary, compiled by competent authority and approved by the Apostolic See, is an abuse!? :bigyikes:]

What authoritative document(s) permit(s) “opening the tabernacle and taking the Precious Hots to the altar, standing by the Priest during the Lamb of God while all is kneeling, Putting the Hosts into other Chalaces, Putting them back into the Tabernacle, adding words to Lamb of God.”?

tee

 

[tee_eff_em]

Don’t think it’s a “right.” They have the privilege or the right to not be denied by the priest on that basis… Something like that. But, not the right to reception on hand. That’s a bit inaccurate imo.

True. Reception in the hand is an indulgence.

An indulgence which a plain reading of the Church documents says, given all the appropriate circumstances exist, is not to be denied by any deacon, priest, bishop nor extraordinary minister of Holy Communion.

tee