Afterlife Without a God

[hansard]

Does the existence of a god mean that there is an afterlife?
Almost conversely, can there be an afterlife without a god involved?

(I’m not trying to be confrontational; I find myself, lately, questioning my faith on a fundamental level.)

 

[JRKH]

Does the existence of a god mean that there is an afterlife?

NO - the existence of a god does not require an “afterlife”…

The term “god” (lower case) can cover a very wide range of possibilities and levels…

Almost conversely, can there be an afterlife without a god involved?

Since I cannot prove that the possibility cannot exist, I must concede that the possibility could exist - yes…

Peace
James

 

[PazzoGrande]

Some Jews believe in God but not in an afterlife.

I never really understood the rationale. One of the reasons why we have religion is because of the afterlife aspects of it (I’m not saying that we should be devout so we could get into heaven – we believe we should be devout because it is our duty and not expect any reward – but we do seek to be with God and we understand that as only happening in its fullest way possible in heaven).

So I never got why they would even bother with their religion if there is no heaven for them. I’m told that Jewish people believe they live on in their children. I never understood that either.

But there’s an example of a religion where they believe in God but not necessarily in heaven.

 

[meltzerboy]

Some Jews believe in God but not in an afterlife.

I never really understood the rationale. One of the reasons why we have religion is because of the afterlife aspects of it (I’m not saying that we should be devout so we could get into heaven – we believe we should be devout because it is our duty and not expect any reward – but we do seek to be with God and we understand that as only happening in its fullest way possible in heaven).

So I never got why they would even bother with their religion if there is no heaven for them. I’m told that Jewish people believe they live on in their children. I never understood that either.

But there’s an example of a religion where they believe in God but not necessarily in heaven.

The afterlife is not explicitly mentioned in the Torah (Pentateuch) or in the Hebrew Bible altogether, although there are a few hints and suggestions regarding its existence. Only in the Talmud (Oral Torah) does the afterlife become a topic of discussion, even if not a major one, as well as in the Jewish mystical writings of the Kabbalah. The founding of Judaism as a religion focused on the collective nation rather than on the individual. Its emphasis was on forming an intimate relationship with G-d, loving G-d, practicing His commandments, and repairing the world by fulfilling its responsibility in serving as a beacon of moral behavior for all the nations of the world. This meant that the present life here on Earth is the arena to fulfill Judaism’s mission. The afterlife, if it exists, is G-d’s concern, not mankind’s.

Having said that, most Jews today, including and especially Orthodox Jews, do believe in an afterlife, or a World to Come. However, the specific details of such a World are not discussed nor is one permitted to speculate about them. Thus most Orthodox Jews–the Karaite Jews apart–may believe in the resurrection of the dead at the time of the Messiah (one of Maimonides’ Thirteen Principles of Faith), a purely spiritual resurrection, a bodily resurrection, a gradual process of reincarnation mainly for the purpose of completion of Torah study, the destruction of the souls of the wicked, an 11-month period of Purgatory involving cleansing of those souls that are not beyond atonement, different shares of the World to Come dependent on the mitzvahs (positive and negative commandments involving a relationship with G-d) followed on Earth, or any combination of these. Despite the belief concerning an afterlife found in modern Judaism, this is nonetheless not the center of the religion.

 

[GEddie]

The issue of human eschatology developed from a non-issue at the time of the Exodus, to shadowy at the time of our LORD, to (in Judaism) a major issue in the time of Maimonides (1200s AD).

However, it is not as prominent in that faith as in most others.

I agree, if all we have ahead is the darkness of death, it makes more sense to be an atheist. IMNAAHO.

ICXC NIKA

 

[wcknight]

I think God could exist and there could be no afterlife, but only if that were how He willed it. We know that He has promised otherwise.

I doubt there could be an afterlife if there were no God. What would make that possible. And if it were the case, I would feel awfully disappointed and lost. I want to know how and who put us here. The why I’m not that concerned with. Most of all I want to meet God and say thanks for everything, up close and personal.

I don’t want to have an anonymous someone out there who made it all possible, but I can never meet.

 

[empther]

Does the existence of a god mean that there is an afterlife?
Almost conversely, can there be an afterlife without a god involved?

First of all, there could be not afterlife without God, but then there would not be a present life, or anything existing at all.

Could there be a God but no afterlife?

I don’t believe so. This doesn’t mean God doesn’t have the power to not permit an afterlife.
I’m saying without an afterlife God would have no reason to create the universe.

Why would he create us only to watch us all die and be annihilated? This is not the good God we know exists.

Also, we are intelligent beings who by our very nature desire the afterlife. It would be cruel of God to create us with this desire and not make it possible.

No matter how you look at it, separating God from the afterlilfe makes no sense.

 

[Qoeleth]

I think both are perfectly concievable.

On the one hand, there could be a Creator God who governs the Univers according to His will. He wills that our souls come into existence, and then go out of existence. Why not?

Then, it is possible that the universe is eternal, with no creator, and that our souls consists of some eternal substance. Thus our souls couls still have an afterlife. Maybe our souls continue to live in an unembodied state, or go into some other matter, and form life.

I don’t believe in either option, of course, but they are certainly not implausible.

 

[Mystic_Banana]

I think both are perfectly concievable.

On the one hand, there could be a Creator God who governs the Univers according to His will. He wills that our souls come into existence, and then go out of existence. Why not?

Then, it is possible that the universe is eternal, with no creator, and that our souls consists of some eternal substance. Thus our souls couls still have an afterlife. Maybe our souls continue to live in an unembodied state, or go into some other matter, and form life.

I don’t believe in either option, of course, but they are certainly not implausible.

All very true. But, without a creator/guiding will, as with everything else, the question is, why would this be?

 

[Qoeleth]

All very true. But, without a creator/guiding will, as with everything else, the question is, why would this be?

Let me propose some answers:

1. In assuming there is an afterlife for humanity, we are being anthropocentric. Imagine that some other animal (e.g. crocodiles) were made in the image of God, and had immortal souls. Now, human beings may have been made just as food for the crocodiles (in the same way we understand chickens as having no immortal soul). Imagine if a chicken asked the question “Why were we created, if we have no afterlife?” From the chicken’s point of view (i.e. an alekrocentric point of view), there would be no acceptable answer. Maybe humans are just chickens in the greater scheme of things.
2. On the other hand, God may simply have created the universe, and may provide the rewards for good and evil in this life (it doesn’t seem to match with experience, but many believe it). Or, he may have simply given us life (albeit of limited duration) as a free gift. Now, if someone gives your, free, $100, you don’t then demand an infinite sum as well, do you?
3. If there is no God, but an eternal universe, and our souls were made of immortal ‘stuff’, the question of “Why?”, in the sense of “Wherefore” becomes meaningless, since there is no need for a transcendental purpose.

All of these answers seem plausible. I am not arguing for them, but they still could be believed.

 

[jagger3320]

The only afterlife without a God is hell.

 

[empther]

From post 10

All of these answers seem plausible. I am not arguing for them, but they still could be believed.

I pity anybody who believed any one of the three arguments given in post 10.

All three of them can be easily and mercilessly torn apart with a little common sense. It took me only seconds to find errors in them.
But I’m not going to waste time detailing them out. They have no credibility and there’s too much useless talk around here.

 

[StrawberryJam]

All very true. But, without a creator/guiding will, as with everything else, the question is, why would this be?

The why would this be is an ongoing question that many want to fill in the blanks with something.
The only way anyone can claim to know a thing, is to keep on asking and trying to find it even if they never will find it. Otherwise, one must rely on their own hunches, feelings or orders by someone.

 

[hansard]

There are many people who believe in “the other side”: an eternal, spiritual realm, not necessarily governed or maintained by any concept of “god”. Having said that, there is normally a god as the head and source of it all.

Good answers on the thread. Thanks, all.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

NO - the existence of a god does not require an “afterlife”…

The term “god” (lower case) can cover a very wide range of possibilities and levels…

To some extent so does “God.”, which I’ve seen used by monotheistic religions, by polytheists, pantheist, panentheist, and deist. (which is why I still use the term “Yahweh” when talking about the Christian god).

 

[empther]

All very true. But, without a creator/guiding will, as with everything else, the question is, why would this be?
**
The why would this be is an ongoing question :banghead: that many want to fill in the blanks with something.
*
Balderdash! Humbug! Rubbish!
The blanks have already been filled in.
The total theology of the Catholic Church for the last two thousand years explains everything.
When you become familiar with it all,
the “why” and the “question” fall apart like a house of cards.

 

[cc42]

People could posit something that is not logically incoherent but is metaphysically incoherent.

The idea that people have a soul that goes on to a spiritual realm without anything governing that process is not logically impossible but it is metaphysically impossible.

So if someone believes in an afterlife they should believe in God.

As far as the why question going on into infinite regress. That wouldn’t be so if God exists because He answers all the whys.

 

[empther]

The idea that people have a soul that goes on to a spiritual realm without anything governing that process is not logically impossible but it is metaphysically impossible.

Why not just say an afterlife without God is impossible. There’s no mechanism for this to happen.

That takes care of half the problem.

Now, can there be a Judeo-Christian God but no afterlife for us? That’s equally impossible. It wouldn’t be the God we know.
How about another kind of god? Why even speculate? We know there isn’t.

 

[Qoeleth]

From post 10

I pity anybody who believed any one of the three arguments given in post 10.

All three of them can be easily and mercilessly torn apart with a little common sense. It took me only seconds to find errors in them.
But I’m not going to waste time detailing them out. They have no credibility and there’s too much useless talk around here.

Empther, it’s seems you do not understand what philosophy is. The nature of it is to ask questions, and to explore possibilities. You’re answer to everything seems to be “the Catholic theology answers everything”. If you maintain this, it is clear that you understand Catholic theology as about philosophy.

The question raised is a perfectly valid philosophical point- whether an after-life and the existence of God co-dependent.

You claim to be a Catholic- yet you exhibit the attitude (and educational accomplishments) of a Protestant fundamentalist. The Catholic tradition is richly philosophical and speculative.

If you feel there is ‘useless talk’ going on in a philosophy forum, perhaps you are in the wrong place.

 

[shoe]

Does the existence of a god mean that there is an afterlife?
Almost conversely, can there be an afterlife without a god involved?

(I’m not trying to be confrontational; I find myself, lately, questioning my faith on a fundamental level.)

Saint Thomas Aquinas says that God is existence itself. It seems to me that God must necessarily exist in order for life to exist, whether in the present life or in the afterlife; on the other hand, if God does not exist, then neither one can.