Afterlife Without a God

[empther]

Saint Thomas Aquinas says that God is existence itself. It seems to me that God must necessarily exist in order for life to exist, whether in the present life or in the afterlife; on the other hand, if God does not exist, then neither one can.

Right on, shoe.

Ooeleth wants to keep throwing out the baby with the bath water, ignore everything that has ever been said about anything, and go back to square one. All in the name of the holy of holies ‘philosophy’.

A survey of the world’s famous philosophers shows there is no agreement among them. There is no progress. There is no ‘truth’. So what good is holy of holies ‘philosophy’?

The questions have all been answered.

And by the way, theology is philosophy too.

 

[meltzerboy]

Right on, shoe.

Ooeleth wants to keep throwing out the baby with the bath water, ignore everything that has ever been said about anything, and go back to square one. All in the name of the holy of holies ‘philosophy’.

A survey of the world’s famous philosophers shows there is no agreement among them. There is no progress. There is no ‘truth’. So what good is holy of holies ‘philosophy’?

The questions have all been answered.

And by the way, theology is philosophy too.

The questions may have all been answered, but there may be different and perhaps better questions to ask. Science, if not philosophy, is always concerned with asking the right questions. That is because the answers are often found within the questions themselves.

 

[GEddie]

The questions may have all been answered, but there may be different and perhaps better questions to ask. Science, if not philosophy, is always concerned with asking the right questions. That is because the answers are often found within the questions themselves.

Unless ye do penance, ye shall all likewise perish.

ICXC NIKA

 

[johnnyjones]

Depends what god you belive in. The Christian God says there is an afterlife in heaven, hell or purgatory so based on that you should believe it. I understand the OPs concern though and I have doubted my faith recently as well. Sometimes it just seems as though death will be like what it was before birth, nothingness, no consciousness of self. All we have is faith and that it will be as Jesus said for those who have worked out their salvation.

I do believe that if there is an afterlife a measure of judgement must be part of it. Otherwise you would have Mother Theresea floating in bliss with Hitler. Not likely.

 

[Qoeleth]

Right on, shoe.

Ooeleth wants to keep throwing out the baby with the bath water, ignore everything that has ever been said about anything, and go back to square one. All in the name of the holy of holies ‘philosophy’.

A survey of the world’s famous philosophers shows there is no agreement among them. There is no progress. There is no ‘truth’. So what good is holy of holies ‘philosophy’?

The questions have all been answered.

And by the way, theology is philosophy too.

Philosophy is an essential part of the Catholic tradition. If you want to ‘do’ philosophy, it is necessary to be able to look at the plausibility of different hypothesis, regardless of belief. As a Catholic, I believe in both God and the after-life. Yet, the philosophical question is: are the two ‘ideas’ necessarily mutually dependent?

As this is a philosophy forum, it needs to be examined philosophically- not just by asserting a Faith position, than rubbishing every alternative explanation.

Look at Aquinas- he was quite capable of understanding and explaining positions which were not in accord with his own Faith.

 

[empther]

Look at Aquinas- he was quite capable of understanding and explaining positions which were not in accord with his own Faith.

Yeah but he didn’t leave it there. He gave his replies to the other side’s ‘objections’ and gave a summary of the true position. You don’t. You imply that impossibilities are possible and unrealities are real.

 

[cc42]

Reason alone though can indicate the immortality of the soul. The fact that the intellect is immaterial indicates that it can still exist even if the body does not.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Reason alone though can indicate the immortality of the soul. The fact that the intellect is immaterial indicates that it can still exist even if the body does not.

Would you mind spelling out the reasoning of how some one comes to that conclusion? It’s not that I’m trying to disagree, but I’m just curious as to what one of the reasoning pathways may be.

 

[GEddie]

Would you mind spelling out the reasoning of how some one comes to that conclusion? It’s not that I’m trying to disagree, but I’m just curious as to what one of the reasoning pathways may be.

A process need not be composed of matter to depend upon matter.

If the intellect is not dependent upon the brain, why then is there no mental activity under anesthesia, or in a chokehold, or after an old-fashioned knock on the head??

God Bless, ICXC NIKA

 

[shoe]

Would you mind spelling out the reasoning of how some one comes to that conclusion? It’s not that I’m trying to disagree, but I’m just curious as to what one of the reasoning pathways may be.

I think one of the reasons that the intellect may be used as an indicator of “the immortality of the soul” is that the human mind or soul is capable of looking from within its own existence either to exercise its own power to reason or simply to toss around ideas. The “immaterial” mind, unlike material things, has the ability to observe its very being: that is to say that the immaterial mind or soul can look forward in time to ponder its future or look backward in time to examine its past, which is something material things simply cannot do.

 

[cc42]

A thought cannot be divided or broken down into something material therefore it is immaterial. The intellect may work through the brain while it is still a part of the body so a person can become unconscious but that doesn’t disprove that the intellect is immaterial.

 

[GEddie]

A thought cannot be divided or broken down into something material therefore it is immaterial. The intellect may work through the brain while it is still a part of the body so a person can become unconscious but that doesn’t disprove that the intellect is immaterial.

A flame cannot be divided either, yet it’s existence depends upon the presence of fuel and oxidant (normally, but not always oxygen).

Since the thinking clearly stops when the human head stops working temporarily, it is a giant reach to say that it just goes on when the head stops working for all time!

ICXC NIKA

 

[empther]

The intellect may work through the brain while it is still a part of the body so a person can become unconscious but that doesn’t disprove that the intellect is immaterial.

Consciousness, awareness, is a physical activity. The soul never stops acting, however. It’s nature is to think and know, although the brain and therefore consciousness may be turned off temporarily.

 

[cc42]

A flame can be divided, anyhow the argument is that thoughts are not dependent upon physical porcesses while a flame is. A person can’t disect neurons in the brain in order to locate the thought of a bunny rabbit for instance.

Consciousness and awareness are dependent upon the soul. Don’t you think that souls are conscious in heaven?

 

[empther]

Consciousness and awareness are dependent upon the soul. Don’t you think that souls are conscious in heaven?

Yes but in this life the soul is not directly conscious of itself. We are on earth for an earthly experience as a test of our faith and all the rest. Out nature is to be body and soul. As somebody said the angels look on our overcoming of the body’s weaknesses with wonder.

In Heaven this wouldn’t be good enough. We will think of all we know all at once. Clearly the body can’t do this. So, as Aquinas says, we will be given a ‘divinization’ by which the soul will work independently of the body, like the angels, while still conscious of the body as is right for our nature.

 

[cc42]

empther,

It makes sense to imagine that the mind is limited by our finite existence and limited body, but the rationality that the mind is immaterial is what I am arguing for as evidence of its possibiliy for existence outside the body, which is material.