Ag_nots Catholic Scriptural Challenge - just ONE proven example wins!!

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Tantum_ergo said:
No, dear, you made the assertion. You have not won anything here. You made the above post–your own words–and you’re waffling about it, trying desperately to change the subject, finally resorting to the tired, "Claim you win and walk away’ tactic.

It won’t work. The people on these forums are perfectly capable of seeing through that sort of thing. They will wonder, “Why isn’t Hisalone backing up his words? Why is he trying to change the subject?”

So tell us, if you can, why you said what you did. And if, perchance, you were in error, all you have to do is say, “Yes, that’s what I said but it’s not really what I meant”. Nobody would think less of you; in fact, most would think more of you.
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Yes or no did Mary fall short of the glory of God?
 
Tantum_ergo said:
I still find the assertion that Enoch and Elijah were able to enter heaven, 'sanctified by their faith", to be the absolute most startling post I’ve seen yet on this thread–and that’s saying something!

HOW can somebody make this kind of assertion–which negates Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross–as Scriptural when there is absolutely no Scripture which supports this–and then, when questioned about it, refuse to elaborate?
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Did Mary fall short of the glory of God?
 
Hisalone said:
It can and does mean all. Isreal is Gods people they did not seek Him. All means all. The prodigal son was still a son even though he wandered off. gods love is everlasting
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sigh

All have gone astray;** all alike **are perverse. **Not one **does what is right, not even one. 4
Will these evildoers never learn? They devour my people as they devour bread; they do not call upon the LORD.
5
They have good reason, then, to fear; God is with the company of the just.
6

Once again, who are the company of the Just when we are CLEARLY told ALL are perverse, NOT ONE does the right thing, NOT EVEN ONE.

You HAVE NOT answered that question.
 
Hisalone said:
Enoch and Elijah were translated to heaven. Why?
Did they sin? I say yes.
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**
Hi Hisalone,👋

God’s Will!
Who actually knows but God? What do you mean by sin? I say No just to even the playing field. The good news is one of us is right the other is protestant!
Don’t feel bad It is not first time you have been wrong!

God Bless **
 
Hisalone, you made your statement about Enoch and Elijah first. Common courtesy would demand that you answer first.
 
Hisalone, this question was addressed wayyyy back in the thread…

I thought this was the best answer so far… and also what AngelsUnaware said: that if you take it to mean “ALL” then you must apply it to Jesus and to infants who have never sinned.
Tantum_ergo said:
St. Paul was probably referencing the Psalms, psalm 14. In which, after the famous, "All have sinned and there is none righteous’ passage, it goes on to say, “Will these evildoers not understand? They eat up my people as though they are eating bread.”

Hmmm. If all are evil, then who are these people whom “these evildoers” (the ‘all’ spoken of earlier) are persecuting? Obviously now there are two different groups here. . .evildoers and those whom they are persecuting who are specifically mentioned as being God’s people.

So ‘all’ is not ALL in this psalm, and St. Paul is reminding us that God is still on the side of the righteous even when they are few and it seems as though they are surrounded by evildoers. Very apposite considering the persecution the early Christians faced!
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Realcatholicgk said:
**
Hi Hisalone,👋

God’s Will!
Who actually knows but God? What do you mean by sin? I say No just to even the playing field. The good news is one of us is right the other is protestant!
Don’t feel bad It is not first time you have been wrong!

God Bless **
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Perhaps you can answer my question.
No other CAtholic can.
Did Mary fall short of the glory of God?

Can you explain how Enoch and Elijah did not suffer from original sin?
 
Ag_not said:
sigh

All have gone astray;** all alike **are perverse. **Not one **does what is right, not even one. 4
Will these evildoers never learn? They devour my people as they devour bread; they do not call upon the LORD.
5
They have good reason, then, to fear; God is with the company of the just.
6

Once again, who are the company of the Just when we are CLEARLY told ALL are perverse, NOT ONE does the right thing, NOT EVEN ONE.

You HAVE NOT answered that question.
**

Hi Ag, 👋
can I answer for Hisalone? He hates to admit when he is wrong! It is a “guy” thing! The answer is: The “JUST” would include Enoch, Elijah, The Blessed Virgin Mary, and anyone else God chooses to exclude out of the ALL that Hisalone is talking about.

God Bless **
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Tantum_ergo said:
Hisalone, you made your statement about Enoch and Elijah first. Common courtesy would demand that you answer first.
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I have been asking this question for many days on this thread. Since you demand comon courtesy it is you who should answer first.
 
First, His dear, you are the one who said that Enoch and Elijah were assumed because they were ‘sanctified by their faith’.

Nobody here claimed that Enoch and Elijah did not suffer from original sin, either.

Would you kindly stop waffling and answer the question?
Why did you state that Enoch and Elijah were assumed into heaven because ‘they were sanctified by their faith?’
 
Ag_not said:
HEY!!! There’s a line lady 😛 😛 😛 Ive been waiting almost 600 posts to get an answer 😛
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LOL, I agree. Of course, he’s using this argument to state it ‘disproves Catholic doctrine’ but I must say he seems remarkably unwilling, after making it, to explain it or support it.
 
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Realcatholicgk:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag_not
sigh

All have gone astray; all alike are perverse. Not one does what is right, not even one. 4
Will these evildoers never learn? They devour my people as they devour bread; they do not call upon the LORD.
5
They have good reason, then, to fear; God is with the company of the just.
6

Once again, who are the company of the Just when we are CLEARLY told ALL are perverse, NOT ONE does the right thing, NOT EVEN ONE.

You HAVE NOT answered that question.

Hi Ag,
can I answer for Hisalone? He hates to admit when he is wrong! It is a “guy” thing! The answer is: The “JUST” would include Enoch, Elijah, The Blessed Virgin Mary, and anyone else God chooses to exclude out of the ALL that Hisalone is talking about.

God Bless

And the just live by faith
 
Hisalone…

You’re asking “did Mary fall short of the glory of God?”

We know that Mary did not sin… but it was not because of her own power. She was saved by God from the stain of original sin from the moment of her conception. She was saved from sin to be the mother of our Lord, she was FILLED with grace! This was a gift from God.

Mary is not God… Catholics do not worship Mary. I think I should make that my signature line, because it seems no matter how many times I repeat it, there are still non Catholics who don’t believe me.

Mary is was not “like” God because she was fully human. But we know she did not sin, because of God’s great gift of grace.

So for “all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” I guess you could say "all have sinned, except Jesus and Mary and infants/children before the age of reason… and all fall short of the glory of God except God.

I’m not sure how this makes you “right?” What prize are you trying to win? I only know of two forces in this universe that fight for souls…
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Please read the explanations given concerning your "all have sinned" passage... I would be interested especially to hear your take on how Tantum_ergo applied it to the context of the Psalm.
In the mean time…it would also be interesting to hear how you believe Enoch and Elijah were sanctified by faith…
 
Hisalone said:
Did Mary fall short of the glory of God?
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This is the third time I’ve answered, and that is in addition to the other answers you’ve received. YES, Mary ‘falls short of the glory of God’ in that she is not God. NO, Mary did not sin.

If you are trying to demonstrate that the verse “all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God” means that IF you sin THEN you fall short of the glory of God, you are logically correct.

However, if you are trying to argue that IF you fall short of the glory of God, THEN you must sin, you are NOT logically correct. That is an error of thinking.

NOW. If you have even a shred of integrity you will produce an answer for the question that is posed to YOU.
 
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