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Martin777
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However I just finished responding to the question asked of me.
Ag_nots Catholic Scriptural Challenge - just ONE proven example wins!!
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rinnie
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And if we don’t repent and confess our sins Martin then do you know what happens. If we die in serous sin, the Man with the horns is gonna be real real happy. He is probally sharpening them as we speak! So you better watch out. What I am saying martin is we all better watch out.
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rinnie
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Martin you said you believe in the original church. Do you believe that to be the RCC?
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SD_Catholic
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That was actually directed towards Hisalone… and his statement about Enoch and Elijah
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SD_Catholic
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Angels_Unaware
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"Martin777:
Answer to the accusation that if you do not teach OSAS you are preaching fear and are not born again
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rinnie
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DEAL!Ohh how bout ah spot ah tea dear?
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Matariel
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It really isn’t a matter of belief, but a matter of historical fact…
And by the way, Roman Catholic Church is a slang name; the official name is the Catholic Church. It was in the 1600’s when Anglicans started to call the Catholic Church the “Roman” Catholic Church, since they considered the Anglican churches also “Catholic”. Before then it was universally called the Catholic Church.
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Martin777
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Not so fast my friend…There are multiple nfractions I have cited that have yet to be refuted successfully.I can’t do any better than to add benedictus2 to the above list and echo the sentiments entirely. Thank you all for such an illuminating discussion.
No. The Catholic church does not teach anything that contradicts Scripture. Thank you all that took part for helping me and I hope others to see that so much more clearly now.
God’s rich Blessings on you, one and all.
(erm , all meaning all that is, in this case, not just some of you
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guanophore
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I understood you! I also think that you have set the record for maxing a thread in the shortest period of time. :bowdown:Sorry guanophore - I was referring to the fact I didnt think any new arguments (did you catch that CinetteThank you.
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LutheranDK
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That’s not what I’m saying, no. I, too, call Mary blessed, but I do not put her as a mediator between us and Jesus. Mary was truly blessed, due to the enormous importance she played in God’s plan for the salvation of the World. But she was just a human being as you or I. Nothing more; nothing less…
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Ag_not
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rinnie
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See what I thought was the first Church was started by Peter in Rome and that is why they called it the RCC. Then later the Roman got dropped and then it became Catholic Church. You may be right, I will have to dig deeper. But thanks for the info.
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LutheranDK
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Not true. Historical facts can, for one thing, be verified by third-party sources. We know for a fact that the Napoleonic Wars happened. We know for a fact that Britain fire-bombed Copenhagen in 1807. We know for a fact that there has been a person called Martin Luther. We know for a fact…etc.
The only “sources” we have that claims that the RC church is the original church…is the RC church itself! And therefore, the question remains a matter of belief, not of historical facts.
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guanophore
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Nothing eternal, surely!And the consequence of getting someone to disgrace God and waste their lives in sin would be …??
“For he will render to every man according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for every one who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality.” Rom 2:5-11
A little editing here may be in order:
“For he will render to every man according to his works(unless the person is OSAS, in which case, works are irrelevant with regard to judgement) 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; (unless they are not saved, in which case, no good deeds will be of any use) 8 but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek,(unless one is OSAS, in which case, they will not come under condemnation, even if they do these things) 10 but glory and honor and peace for every one who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality.” Rom 2:5-11
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fbl9
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Martin there is no other way to read this quote from St.Paul’s letter to the Romans,either one is a slave to sin or a slave to obedience…a christian is bound by God’s law if not then one is truly free to do anything,even induldge in their viking ancestor’s ways…did not Christ say “no man can have two masters,he will love one and hate the other"God is my master through my Lord Jesus Christ…others have mentioned it “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us””\ you can not withhold forgivenss of some one’s wrong against oneself and expect God to forgive yourself…this is God’s law and if you break it what happens? you aren’t getting into heaven with unforgiven sin for nothin unclean shall enter…
it seems you have this picture of catholics being scared little children…we are not…the only time i have any actual fear is when i know i am not in a state of grace…it is a fear for my eternal soul…and it is with sorrow that i come to my Lord through His holy sacrement of reconcillation…
do you have any authority to teach what you teach and if so where did you get this authority from?
did it come from a book?
did God Himself breath upon you?
did God Himself give you the power to loosen and bind?
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Shai22
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My problem with Catholic teaching is that, while it might not be against Scripture, some is not well supported by Scripture. To someone who accepts Tradition as a valid basis for doctrine that doesn’t present a problem.
While it might not be a big deal, I do think that the whole concept of canonizing Saints is wrong. The Church essentially judges that those canonized are in Heaven. They may or may not be right. However Paul does warn us not to judge anyone before the time as we don’t know hidden things of a person’s heart. A person can lead an exemplary life and still be rotten inside.
You are absolutely correct regarding the canonizing of the saints. GOD is the only one that has the authority to do that.
Jesus says in JOhn 7:24 stop judging me by external standards, and judge by the true standards.
Interpretation: Humans judge by human nature, and not by spiritual nature. GOD teaches us to discern who is spiritual and who is not. Hosea 5:1 Listen you priests! Pay attention people of Israel! Listen you that belong to the royal family! You are suppose to judge with justice, so that judgment will all on you!
Spiritual judgment is judging with justice.
However, in Hosea 4:4,6 let no one accuse the people or reprimand them, my complaint is against you priests.
6 My people are doomed because they do not acknowledge me.
In Jeremiah 17:10 I, the LORD search the minds and test the hearts of people. I treat each of them according to the way they live, according to what they do. [This is how GOD judges.]
While it might not be a big deal, I do think that the whole concept of canonizing Saints is wrong. The Church essentially judges that those canonized are in Heaven. They may or may not be right. However Paul does warn us not to judge anyone before the time as we don’t know hidden things of a person’s heart. A person can lead an exemplary life and still be rotten inside.
You are absolutely correct regarding the canonizing of the saints. GOD is the only one that has the authority to do that.
Jesus says in JOhn 7:24 stop judging me by external standards, and judge by the true standards.
Interpretation: Humans judge by human nature, and not by spiritual nature. GOD teaches us to discern who is spiritual and who is not. Hosea 5:1 Listen you priests! Pay attention people of Israel! Listen you that belong to the royal family! You are suppose to judge with justice, so that judgment will all on you!
Spiritual judgment is judging with justice.
However, in Hosea 4:4,6 let no one accuse the people or reprimand them, my complaint is against you priests.
6 My people are doomed because they do not acknowledge me.
In Jeremiah 17:10 I, the LORD search the minds and test the hearts of people. I treat each of them according to the way they live, according to what they do. [This is how GOD judges.]
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Matariel
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Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp, and Clement of Alexandria, are all Catholic bishops, and they were taught and ordained by St. Peter and St. John, which demonstrates continuity between the early Catholic Church and the modern Catholic Church. There is absolutely no reason to doubt their claims whatsoever. By the way, the official name is Catholic Church, not Roman Catholic Church; that’s a slang name.
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guanophore
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What you have cited is your lack of understanding of what the Catholic Church teaches.
This is almost certainly the case. Martin does not realize that everything he reads goes through his personal cerebral perceptual filters.
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SD_Catholic
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Well I guess since they were the only Christians around for so many years I’m just gonna have to believe the history they provided for all those years…
If I read a diary from a famous blacksmith from the 500s and it tells step by step how he made a sword… and then Jon Doe comes along 1500 yrs later and tells me that the blacksmith was wrong… and then begins to tell me that the blacksmith actually made a sword like this yada yada yada… who do you think I’m gonna trust?
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