Against Mary - "Totus tuus, Mary"

[DebChris]

That isn’t quite accurate, try this for more.

Good source of information. What is often misunderstood is the limits of papal infallibility and this article does an excellent job of addressing those limitations. The pope is human and the Church has never taught otherwise.

 

[justasking4]

Tantum ergo;2580582]Let’s get back on topic. The original question is given by Zemi (but not held by Zemi), and is thus:

Let me attempt to go back to answer that once more. Anything --any honor, any respect, any devotion we give to Mary, we give to her because she is the Mother of Jesus, and because in giving it to her, we give it even more perfectly to Him. Nothing is given to Mary that “should have been given” to Jesus. Nothing that goes to her goes to her only, but always through her to Jesus. In fact, we give MORE to Jesus when going through Mary, because we add her loving prayers to ours. (Remember that Scripture, “Where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in their midst”, and also “the prayer of a righteous man availeth much.”?)

Do you know of any examples in the NT where the apostles or in their teachings that makes this claim–" Anything --any honor, any respect, any devotion we give to Mary, we give to her because she is the Mother of Jesus, and because in giving it to her, we give it even more perfectly to Him."?

So the whole question springs from a complete misunderstanding regarding Mary’s role, and our Catholic devotions. Instead of ‘taking something away from God and giving it to another’, rather, we are giving God even more, every time we go through Mary.

If this is true then why is it not taught in the Scriptures? Even those who were closes to Jesus and Mary never make these kinds of statements.

Mary, undeniably, had a unique role to play as the Mother of the Savior. Simply in ‘bearing Him’, she did what no other human has, or will ever do. The honor is beyond imagining.

So, we are all sinners. Even when we try to present good things–love, devotion, prayer–to God, they are still ‘tinged’ with our human frailty and our human sins. (For those who seem to fixate on the verse, “All have sinned and fallen short”, remarkably few seem to feel that any of THEIR efforts to serve God may ‘fall short’ or be tinged by sin. It’s almost surprising how many seem to feel that even the most cursory ‘good’ action, done grudgingly, will be greeted by God AND all humanity as on a par, pretty much, with the deeds of the apostles and the saints. . .)

Imagine that you are presenting a beautiful apple to God. You stand before Him, grubby and tattered, holding in a dirty hand that apple. (Now certainly God loves even his imperfect children, but–citing Scripture again-- do you remember the story of the man who had no wedding garment, and was cast out of the banquet? When we are presenting anything to God, we must ‘be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect’ for “nothing impure can ever be admitted to heaven”.)

Now imagine that you give that beautiful apple to Mary to give to God FOR you. She takes that beautiful apple into her glorified, heavenly hands, puts it onto a beautiful plate, and, coming to see her beloved Son, offers to him YOUR apple–made even more beautiful and worthy in its presentation, making you appear even more humble (in going through Mary rather than stomping in to see the Lord face to face, as though WE were the ones conferring a favor to GOD by showing him just how wonderful we thought our actions and our presents --and of course, our own selves --are.)

The problem with your example is here is that it is totally unbiblical. It is in Christ alone that we have redemption and the forgiveness of sins and Mary has nothing to do with this.

Do you remember Cain and Abel? Nowhere is it stated that Cain’s offering was foul. Obviously, he offered things that may have looked perfectly okay–not great, but not ‘bad’. But Abel offered only the FINEST things to God. And God was displeased with Cain’s offering. Mind you, Cain offered SOMETHING, Cain did not offer anything obviously inferior–but he did not offer the best. That story is in the Bible for a reason. It’s one we should be more mindful of in these times when authority is constantly mocked and trampled, and ‘individuality’, and “it’s good ENOUGH” seems to be the new golden rule.

 

[fellowChristian]

The NT never implies nor state that she is the mother of the church.

We as Catholics believe that Jesus is the new Adam. And that Mary is the new Eve.

You see in the Old Testament a king could have many wives but he only has one mother. The mother was the queen not the wife.

So Jesus is King and His mother is queen because she is His mother.

Adam failed Jesus did not.

Eve disobeyed, Mary did not

Luke 1
38"I am the Lord’s servant," Mary answered. “May it be to me as you have said.” Then the angel left her.

And because we believe Mary is the new Eve, we believe she is mother of all the living, because Eve was.

Genesis 3
20 Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living.

and because Jesus gave her to us

John 19
27 Then He said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” From that hour the disciple took her into his own household.

Where did Jesus get His flesh?

Mary

Where did Jesus get His blood?

Mary

They shared flesh and blood.

Mary is Jesus’ flesh and blood.

And when we as Catholics receive the Body and Blood of Jesus we receive her too.

See the great thing about God’s word is it is so powerful! When God said “Let there be light,” there was light!

And when God said in

John 6
51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

We know He meant it!

We are adopted children of God. We share flesh and blood like a real family when we come together as the Body of Christ and follow Jesus and receive His Flesh and Blood.

 

[justasking4]

fellowChristian;2624146]We as Catholics believe that Jesus is the new Adam. And that Mary is the new Eve.

Are you aware that no writer of the NT ever refers to her as the new Eve?

You see in the Old Testament a king could have many wives but he only has one mother. The mother was the queen not the wife.

So Jesus is King and His mother is queen because she is His mother.

If what you say is true, how did Jesus and Mary together demonstrate in the gospels their authority as King and queen?

Adam failed Jesus did not.

True

Eve disobeyed, Mary did not

Redemption had nothing to do with Mary. The comparison in scripture is always between Adam and Christ and not between Eve and Mary.

Luke 1
38"I am the Lord’s servant," Mary answered. “May it be to me as you have said.” Then the angel left her.

And because we believe Mary is the new Eve, we believe she is mother of all the living, because Eve was.

Genesis 3
20 Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living.

and because Jesus gave her to us

John 19
27 Then He said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” From that hour the disciple took her into his own household.

Where did Jesus get His flesh?

Mary

Where did Jesus get His blood?

Mary

They shared flesh and blood.

Mary is Jesus’ flesh and blood.

And when we as Catholics receive the Body and Blood of Jesus we receive her too.

This is the first time i have ever seen this claim. Is this offical catholic teaching?

See the great thing about God’s word is it is so powerful! When God said “Let there be light,” there was light!

And when God said in

John 6
51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

We know He meant it!

We are adopted children of God. We share flesh and blood like a real family when we come together as the Body of Christ and follow Jesus and receive His Flesh and Blood.

 

[Fergal]

I just wonder what you would have to say I really heard it recently.

The Catholic life is simple and completed in three steps.

1. With Peter
2. Through Mary
3. To Jesus

A sure path to salvation.

 

[Leopard]

Catholics give themselves totally to Jesus through Mary because:

1. Jesus gave himself totally to us through Mary, and
2. We follow Jesus’ example.

 

[Singinbeauty]

Catholics give themselves totally to Jesus through Mary because:

1. Jesus gave himself totally to us through Mary, and
2. We follow Jesus’ example.

A little simplistic but I can see where you are going with this.