Against the Death Penalty?

[CHESTERTONRULES]

I believe there have been several cases where even “overwhelming evidences” have proved to be false and innocents were sent to the chair. Of course, they only realized their follies after the person has been executed. Too late to make amendments…

This is not true.

Since the reinstatement of the death penalty in America there is no proof that a single innocent person has been executed.

There is proof that hundreds of innocent people have been murdered by individuals previously convicted of murder.

Why do you value these lives less than those of convicted murderers?

 

[block]

Can we get a priest in this discussion? There’s really no point in everybody stating there opinions if nobody is being educated. We are right back to where we were before this thread started.

I also want to add because I feel as though some people might be upset with the things that I’ve said, I don’t mean any disrespect and I would truely hope that nobody has any negative thoughts about me because I am not on here to fight or argue with anybody. Thank you.

 

[pete_29]

My apologies Pete, and I thank you for putting yourself in danger to protect innocent people. I’ll be praying for your safety. God Bless.

No apologies necessary, it is a minor disagreement, besides it’s my brother that owes me an apology. (not really,in hindsight he did me a big favor although I didn’t think so for the first few years of my career.)

 

[pete_29]

The unborn child was born with sin as was the adult who commited the sin out of his own accord. To us, pro-lifers, killing the unborn is a heinous act. To pro-abortionists, it isn’t. For the one outside the box, both are doomed anyway - whether you die early or late of natural circumstances, or whether you die through an act of God (disasters, disease, etc). You will still die no matter what. Your body rots whilst your soul meets your maker to determine how sinful you were when on earth - it doesn’t matter if you killed someone or not. You must still pay for your sins because of Original Sin.

I believe there have been several cases where even “overwhelming evidences” have proved to be false and innocents were sent to the chair. Of course, they only realized their follies after the person has been executed. Too late to make amendments.

Let me clarify, by overwhelming evidence, I mean no doubt whatsoever.

What did an unborn baby do to merit execution. is that more clear.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Can we get a priest in this discussion? There’s really no point in everybody stating there opinions if nobody is being educated. We are right back to where we were before this thread started.

I also want to add because I feel as though some people might be upset with the things that I’ve said, I don’t mean any disrespect and I would truely hope that nobody has any negative thoughts about me because I am not on here to fight or argue with anybody. Thank you.

I think I have provided some new data to the discussion in addition to learning some new facts myself.

Were you aware of the number of murders that have been committed by those previoulsy convicted of murder?

I understand that your opinion is based on the highest values. However, I think you need more information upon which to form a position.

Do you agree that the top priority with law enforcement policies should be to minimize the damage to innocent civilians?

 

[cathopologist]

Thanks RobHom, i will read up on the link later. Terri’s case, was sickening and it proved how the judiciary system can be toyed for someone else’s gain. I followed her case on the internet via news reports and videos.

Honestly, IMO, if you’re human and a judge, there will never be a true discretion.

 

[pete_29]

Which State prison do you guard? I love watching Lockdown and Inside - maybe i’ll lookout for you but i will pray for your safety.

A lovely place called Centralia. You won’t see me there, I retired last August. Please though I would appreciated some prayers for the freinds I left behind.

 

[cathopologist]

This is not true.

Since the reinstatement of the death penalty in America there is no proof that a single innocent person has been executed.

There is proof that hundreds of innocent people have been murdered by individuals previously convicted of murder.

Why do you value these lives less than those of convicted murderers?

It would be an embarrassment to admit there have been even further follies after the death penalty has been reinstated.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Can we get a priest in this discussion? There’s really no point in everybody stating there opinions if nobody is being educated. We are right back to where we were before this thread started.

I also want to add because I feel as though some people might be upset with the things that I’ve said, I don’t mean any disrespect and I would truely hope that nobody has any negative thoughts about me because I am not on here to fight or argue with anybody. Thank you.

Father Corapi on the Death Penalty:

It is not morally possible for any Catholic to
support abortion, euthanasia, fetal stem cell research, human cloning, or same-sex marriage. There are no ways around this, no justifications whatever.
Why?

For the simple reason that the Church holds these things to be intrinsically evil. They are evil in themselves, and no circumstances or subjective conditions can ever
change that. They are not to be confused with such things as the death penalty and legitimate self-defense, which are not intrinsically evil, and which governments can, and
often must, make use of.

74.6.239.67/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=father+corapi+death+penalty&u=www.fathercorapi.com/PDF/Vote2008.pdf&w=father+corapi+death+penalty+penalties&d=MEt2EEfiSBUU&icp=1&.intl=us

 

[block]

I think I have provided some new data to the discussion in addition to learning some new facts myself.

Were you aware of how many murders have been committed by those previoulsy convicted of murder?

I understand that your opinion is based on the highest values. However, I think you need more information upon which to form a position.

Do you agree that the top priority with law enforcement policies should be to minimize the damage to innocent civilians?

Absolutely. But, I don’t feel that that means more death, I understand that what we are doing now isn’t working, clearly you have made good points about convicted murderers repeating the crime, I am just saying that there has to be other ways that we haven’t tried yet. That’s all.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

It would be an embarrassment to admit there have been even further follies after the death penalty has been reinstated.

What are you referring to?

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Absolutely. But, I don’t feel that that means more death, I understand that what we are doing now isn’t working, clearly you have made good points about convicted murderers repeating the crime, I am just saying that there has to be other ways that we haven’t tried yet. That’s all.

Perhaps.

I believe that some people have forfeited the right to live with others.

This is a decision that a society has a moral obligation to make.

Eliminating or minimizing the executions of dangerous killers is not morally acceptable.

 

[RobHom]

Pro-abortion or not, i’d like to read differing opinions on how ‘killing’ is different from ‘murder’ for this scenario. Pandora’s box is open.

I’ll expand slightly on this:

1. Abortion done for the purpose of “birth control” is abhorrent, and falls under the category of “murder” of innocent life.
2. The only real exception that I can see permissible is when the death of the mother is imminent based on three or more medical opinions. Yet still all measures should be made to protect and preserve the life of the unborn child.
3. Killing as in self-defense under extreme conditions is legal.
   Killing on the field of battle in a just war is survival in combat.

Most soldiers committed to battle have either been drafted into compulsory service or volunteered to serve, but not many have ever desired to be placed in combat where they would possibly end up being killed. Having been there, I can tell you that combat is not what a soldier looks forward to. Killing on the field of battle is an issue of survival…not premeditated murder.

 

[cathopologist]

Let me clarify, by overwhelming evidence, I mean no doubt whatsoever.

What did an unborn baby do to merit execution. is that more clear.

Yes, but at the time of the sentencing, they did believe in what they believed in without any doubt. Until the case is reopened and re-studied…usually through accident or for academia that they stumble upon the previous error.

The unborn child is innocent, of course. But the ones who carry out the execution of the unborn - shouldn’t they be sentenced to death for murder?

 

[Lujack]

Eliminating or minimizing the executions of dangerous killers is not morally acceptable.

Actually, the catechism of the Catholic Church would disagree with you.

The traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude, presupposing full ascertainment of the identity and responsibility of the offender, recourse to the death penalty, when this is the only practicable way to defend the lives of human beings effectively against the aggressor.
"If, instead, bloodless means are sufficient to defend against the aggressor and to protect the safety of persons, public authority should limit itself to such means, because they better correspond to the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.
"Today, in fact, given the means at the State’s disposal to effectively repress crime by rendering inoffensive the one who has committed it, without depriving him definitively of the possibility of redeeming himself, cases of absolute necessity for suppression of the offender 'today … are very rare, if not practically non-existent

.

 

[block]

Father Corapi on the Death Penalty:

It is not morally possible for any Catholic to
support abortion, euthanasia, fetal stem cell research, human cloning, or same-sex marriage. There are no ways around this, no justifications whatever.
Why?

For the simple reason that the Church holds these things to be intrinsically evil. They are evil in themselves, and no circumstances or subjective conditions can ever
change that. They are not to be confused with such things as the death penalty and legitimate self-defense, which are not intrinsically evil, and which governments can, and
often must, make use of.

74.6.239.67/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=father+corapi+death+penalty&u=www.fathercorapi.com/PDF/Vote2008.pdf&w=father+corapi+death+penalty+penalties&d=MEt2EEfiSBUU&icp=1&.intl=us

In 1991, there was an 11 yr old girl who was raped and then murdered in Florida. Though the man who commited this crime was punished by death, there were 9 bishops who lived in Florida who wrote in to the governor to request the stopping of the execution.

Ezekiel (33:11): “As I live, says the Lord God, I swear I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked man, but rather in the wicked man’s conversion, that he may live.”

“I tell people to go back to the gospel. Look at who Jesus hung out with: lepers, prostitutes, thieves - the throwaways of his day. If we call ourselves Jesus’ disciples, we too have to keep ministering to the marginated, the throwaways, the lepers of today. And there are no more marginated, thrown-away, and leprous people in our society than death-row inmates.” – Helen Prejean

“Abolition of the death penalty is most consonant with the example of Jesus, who both taught and practiced the forgiveness of injustice.” – US Bishops, Statement on Capital Punishment, Article 13

You’ll like this next one

“Modern society has the means of protecting itself, without definitively denying criminals the chance to reform.” Pope John Paul II. He said that at a mass that he performed in 1999, the purpose of his homily was to challenge the mercy of americans and do away with the death penalty.

I can continue if you would like for me to do so…

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

In 1991, there was an 11 yr old girl who was raped and then murdered in Florida. Though the man who commited this crime was punished by death, there were 9 bishops who lived in Florida who wrote in to the governor to request the stopping of the execution.

Ezekiel (33:11): “As I live, says the Lord God, I swear I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked man, but rather in the wicked man’s conversion, that he may live.”

“I tell people to go back to the gospel. Look at who Jesus hung out with: lepers, prostitutes, thieves - the throwaways of his day. If we call ourselves Jesus’ disciples, we too have to keep ministering to the marginated, the throwaways, the lepers of today. And there are no more marginated, thrown-away, and leprous people in our society than death-row inmates.” – Helen Prejean

“Abolition of the death penalty is most consonant with the example of Jesus, who both taught and practiced the forgiveness of injustice.” – US Bishops, Statement on Capital Punishment, Article 13

You’ll like this next one

“Modern society has the means of protecting itself, without definitively denying criminals the chance to reform.” Pope John Paul II. He said that at a mass that he performed in 1999, the purpose of his homily was to challenge the mercy of americans and do away with the death penalty.

I can continue if you would like for me to do so…

These are opinions, not doctrines.

The truth is, modern society cannot protect fellow prisoners or prison guards from brutal killers in prison.

 

[CWBetts]

Perhaps.

I believe that some people have forfeited the right to live with others.

This is a decision that a society has a moral obligation to make.

Eliminating or minimizing the executions of dangerous killers is not morally acceptable.

Mercy is not only morally acceptible, it is morally perferable.

“Let he among you who is wothout sin cast the first stone”

When we can lock people in supermax prisons, where they have no reralistic means of escape, then the state has sufficiently protected the populace without resort to the death penalty. If we want to claim the mantle of a civilized nation, then we must learn to protect life—all life—from conception to natural death. We must speak as strongly about preserving the lives of the born as the unborn.

 

[pete_29]

Yes, but at the time of the sentencing, they did believe in what they believed in without any doubt. Until the case is reopened and re-studied…usually through accident or for academia that they stumble upon the previous error.

The unborn child is innocent, of course. But the ones who carry out the execution of the unborn - shouldn’t they be sentenced to death for murder?

If someone, in front of a large crowd, kills another person, with many witnesses all testifying that they saw that someone do the killing. Without extenuating circumstances ( self defense, spur of the moment anger) To me that’s what i mean by without doubt. That person could be subject to execution.

Possibly, but a case could be made for life imprisonment. Anyway, it’s not the law so it’s ( I can’t think of the word I want to use) to me.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Mercy is not only morally acceptible, it is morally perferable.

“Let he among you who is wothout sin cast the first stone”

When we can lock people in supermax prisons, where they have no reralistic means of escape, then the state has sufficiently protected the populace without resort to the death penalty. If we want to claim the mantle of a civilized nation, then we must learn to protect life—all life—from conception to natural death. We must speak as strongly about preserving the lives of the born as the unborn.

Mercy to whom?

Mercy to the future victims of murder, or the murderers?

Can you make no distinction between the two groups?