Against the US-Afghanistan & US-Iraq Wars

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nqes7t9

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CAFers,

I speak out against the Afghanistan & Iraq wars waged by the United States in the past fifteen years!

To do those things was wrong.

We, the American people, did wrong. I did wrong. Our political leaders did wrong. Our soldiers and service-people did wrong. I sinned. You sinned. We all sinned.

Violence leads nowhere. I know this from my own life, the life of a sinner.

We may sometimes destroy. We’re Catholics; we believe in just war theory. But Our Lord often called us to a higher way.

If we want to make progress in our security, we should react without anger and without destruction. We must sometimes accept the violence sometimes done to us – the violence of terrorists plane-crashing into our country and gunning us down – with unrequited peace. We must turn the other cheek.

This weekend is an anniversary of the American Independence Day. Let us remember that true freedom lies in freedom to do good, not in freedom to do evil. Let us remember our relationships with each other.

Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner. Lord Jesus, have mercy on us, sinners.
Amen.

May the Lord smile on you and bless you forever!
Amen.
 
nqes7t9 said:
CAFers,

I speak out against the Afghanistan & Iraq wars waged by the United States in the past fifteen years!

To do those things was wrong.

We, the American people, did wrong. I did wrong. Our political leaders did wrong. Our soldiers and service-people did wrong. I sinned. You sinned. We all sinned.

Violence leads nowhere. I know this from my own life, the life of a sinner.

We may sometimes destroy. We’re Catholics; we believe in just war theory. But Our Lord often called us to a higher way.

If we want to make progress in our security, we should react without anger and without destruction. We must sometimes accept the violence sometimes done to us – the violence of terrorists plane-crashing into our country and gunning us down – with unrequited peace. We must turn the other cheek.

This weekend is an anniversary of the American Independence Day. Let us remember that true freedom lies in freedom to do good, not in freedom to do evil. Let us remember our relationships with each other.

Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner. Lord Jesus, have mercy on us, sinners.
Amen.

May the Lord smile on you and bless you forever!
Amen.
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nqes7t9 said:
CAFers,

I speak out against the Afghanistan & Iraq wars waged by the United States in the past fifteen years!

To do those things was wrong… Our political leaders did wrong. …
Violence leads nowhere.
Click to expand...
Yes, this much is true.
I agree with most of what you said. I deleted the parts that I disagree with. For example you say:“We, the American people, did wrong.” Many Americans opposed the war, so I don’t agree with a blanket statement that the American people did wrong.
 
Tomdstone said:
Yes, this much is true.
I agree with most of what you said. I deleted the parts that I disagree with. For example you say:“We, the American people, did wrong.” Many Americans opposed the war, so I don’t agree with a blanket statement that the American people did wrong.
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I can see where the OP is going with this…‘cooperation with evil’, or better, allowing it. You are right that many citizens opposed the war, but what action did they take to address it, Im sure most continued to pay taxes during this time, We just assume God will agree with us on little details like this, when maybe its little things that get us into hot water.

Im not excluding myself either, Im guilty of this as well, my faith is not strong enough for me to take such extreme action, like stop paying taxes or other ways I may indirectly ‘cooperate’ or allow things to go on, but hey, I like my freedom and quality if life as much as anyone else, so I pretty much ‘go along to get along’, but I also worry I may have to answer for that one day when I stand before God.

Im not claiming either of those wars was just or in just, only God knows that, Im just speculating on what God would expect as a result, if they were in-just to him, but not for us. (if that makes any sense).
 
We should turn the other cheek to terrorism, even state-sponsored terrorism? The murder of thousands, millions? That would quickly mean a very barbaric world.
 
PaulfromIowa said:
We should turn the other cheek to terrorism, even state-sponsored terrorism? The murder of thousands, millions? That would quickly mean a very barbaric world.
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1991: Iraqi Scud missiles hit Israel
Iraq has attacked two Israeli cities with Scud missiles, prompting fears that Israel may be drawn into the Gulf War.

Israel’s largest city, Tel Aviv, and Haifa, its main seaport, were hit in the attacks, which began at 0300 local time (0100 GMT), when most residents were asleep.

Residents scrambled for protective clothing and gas masks, issued to most of the population before the conflict began.

It is the first time Tel Aviv has been hit in the history of the Israel-Arab conflict.

Link:
news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/january/18/newsid_4588000/4588486.stm

Maybe the Christians who were governing Israel in 1991 should try to convert some politicians in the USA to Christianity.
 
Isn’t this well too late?

And I reject the premise that all citizens sinned in the country’s wars. We are not a democracy; we are a federal republic; which means that between elections, those chosen to do so rule for us. Average citizens do not sin even in an unjust or mistaken war because they possess no power to stop it.

ICXC NIKA
 
mikekle said:
You are right that many citizens opposed the war, but what action did they take to address it, Im sure most continued to pay taxes during this time,.
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A lot of us protested in marches and in demonstrations holding signs to oppose the war and to promote peace. As far as not paying your taxes, if you don’t pay taxes, you go to federal jail, where you can be beat up and sexually assaulted and raped and in some cases killed. Many guards just don’t care and they will only stand by laughing or look the other way as you get beat up.
 
Tomdstone said:
As far as not paying your taxes, if you don’t pay taxes, you go to federal jail, where you can be beat up and sexually assaulted and raped and in some cases killed. Many guards just don’t care and they will only stand by laughing or look the other way as you get beat up.
Click to expand...
You can pay taxes using ransom money paid to you by a politician whose 16-year-old daughter you have kidnapped. In fact, you do not kidnap her, but she agrees to help you pretend that she is being kidnapped. She goes with you voluntarily. If she refuses, then you move on and try another daughter of a politician who voted for the war.

Now, here is the best part: she agrees to accuse you of having raped her, and you admit guilt. Of course, you certainly do not rape her. You are not even to kiss her, except perhaps for her hand, with her permission. As a convicted rapist of a 16-year-old girl, you will get protective custody away from the other inmates. That is assuming that you are captured.

Because you got the tax money from a politician who voted for the war, you are not guilty of financing the war. The politician is forced to pay for the war.

Also, men who oppose the war should declare that they are women as soon as war is declared. Then they cannot be conscripted for combat. They should stay away from any washroom labelled as being for men. If any agent of the government denies that the transexual-by-proclamation women are women, then those transexual-by-proclamation women can immediately make citizens arrests for sexual harassment.
 
Also, men who oppose the war should declare that they are women as soon as war is declared. Then they cannot be conscripted for combat.
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That sort of mind-rot wasn’t accepted at the time of the Afghan or 2nd Gulf wars.

ICXC NIKA
 
Tomdstone said:
Yes, this much is true.
I agree with most of what you said. I deleted the parts that I disagree with. For example you say:“We, the American people, did wrong.” Many Americans opposed the war, so I don’t agree with a blanket statement that the American people did wrong.
Click to expand...
I remember personally speaking out against going to both Afghanistan (in 2001 - on Sept. 11, for that matter) and Iraq (in 2003). Of course, minds were already made up and a single civilian far away from decision-makers wasn’t going to change anyone’s mind… but…
 
nqes7t9 said:
CAFers,

I speak out against the Afghanistan & Iraq wars waged by the United States in the past fifteen years!

To do those things was wrong.

We, the American people, did wrong. I did wrong. Our political leaders did wrong. Our soldiers and service-people did wrong. I sinned. You sinned. We all sinned.

Violence leads nowhere. I know this from my own life, the life of a sinner.

We may sometimes destroy. We’re Catholics; we believe in just war theory. But Our Lord often called us to a higher way.

If we want to make progress in our security, we should react without anger and without destruction. We must sometimes accept the violence sometimes done to us – the violence of terrorists plane-crashing into our country and gunning us down – with unrequited peace. We must turn the other cheek.

This weekend is an anniversary of the American Independence Day. Let us remember that true freedom lies in freedom to do good, not in freedom to do evil. Let us remember our relationships with each other.

Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner. Lord Jesus, have mercy on us, sinners.
Amen.

May the Lord smile on you and bless you forever!
Amen.
Click to expand...
I had a huge problem with the invasion of Iraq (as did then Pope, John Paul II). With regards to Afghanistan, my country was attacked by people that were based there. We didn’t really have much of a choice. And yes, soldiers sinned. Everyone sins. I don’t see your point. Were there things that could have be handled better? Absolutely. But you can’t blame the actions of a few on an entire group of people.
 
We can turn the other cheek, but some actions are warranted. We would be living a different life after be attacked at Pearl Harbor, would’nt we…
 
Tomdstone said:
A lot of us protested in marches and in demonstrations holding signs to oppose the war and to promote peace. As far as not paying your taxes, if you don’t pay taxes, you go to federal jail, where you can be beat up and sexually assaulted and raped and in some cases killed. Many guards just don’t care and they will only stand by laughing or look the other way as you get beat up.
Click to expand...
Yes, you would go to jail…so what, better to be in an earthly jail than to disobey Gods law and have some level of cooperation with evil or even indirectly supporting an unjust war, plus they would not be getting the money you would have paid them (if enough people did this, it would effect their abilities to wage war).

Jesus even warned us many people would be arrested, imprisoned, tortured, killed due to his name, these kinds of things are the reason why they are arrested, they chose to put Gods law above mans.

Point is, we cannot serve 2 masters, a christian cannot have an easy secular life and truly puts Gods laws first, it just cannot be done, the 2 have always been in opposition and always will be.
 
I agree, I don’t think it is necessarily a sin to be a soldier. After all, confirmed Catholics were once known as “soldiers for Christ.” But even to become and to be a member in the American armed services, I don’t think that is necessarily a sin.

I also don’t think it’s necessarily a sin to kill a person. “Thou shalt not murder” is how I think the 5th commandment puts it, emphasis mine.

I think it’s possible to live a holy life while serving as a soldier, with the killing that that may imply, in the service of a nation or power that is waging an unjust war. This is what a friend explained to me.

Pearl Harbor did not happen on 9/11. Pearl Harbor preceded the American involvement in WWII – and four years after Pearl Harbor, the enemy formally surrendered! Did we see any formal surrender from Al Qaeda or the Taliban after four years of war in Afghanistan? No. We were and we are dealing with two different enemies.
 
nqes7t9 said:
I agree, I don’t think it is necessarily a sin to be a soldier. After all, confirmed Catholics were once known as “soldiers for Christ.” But even to become and to be a member in the American armed services, I don’t think that is necessarily a sin.

I also don’t think it’s necessarily a sin to kill a person. “Thou shalt not murder” is how I think the 5th commandment puts it, emphasis mine.

I think it’s possible to live a holy life while serving as a soldier, with the killing that that may imply, in the service of a nation or power that is waging an unjust war. This is what a friend explained to me.

Pearl Harbor did not happen on 9/11. Pearl Harbor preceded the American involvement in WWII – and four years after Pearl Harbor, the enemy formally surrendered! Did we see any formal surrender from Al Qaeda or the Taliban after four years of war in Afghanistan? No. We were and we are dealing with two different enemies.
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Yes, the war on terror is like nothing we have ever faced before, there will never be a V day with this war, never be any type of surrender, as Ive said before, this war will go on forever, until some larger more global threat comes along, and that could be 100s of years.

I always laugh when I see news reports where the US has killed or captured terror leaders or other main guys, it makes no difference, they will just be replaced and maybe with a more violent effective leader, so really no one should be celebrating, its not like the fighters are suddenly going to give up and admit defeat…NO, in fact, the children being born today to those folks, will be the ones fighting when they grow up, they are being brought up to have the same beliefs and values as their parents or guardians.

The US army is different though, would they still continue fighting the enemy if all their leadership was killed or captured, or would they likely give up and surrender? Are they raising their children to HATE the enemy so much their own lives are not important, only killing the enemy is important? I assume many of them are fighting because they are being instructed to fight, its their job…its not a ‘job’ to the Islamic fighters, its literally what they believe in.
 
nqes7t9 said:
CAFers,

I speak out against the Afghanistan & Iraq wars waged by the United States in the past fifteen years!

To do those things was wrong.

We, the American people, did wrong. I did wrong. Our political leaders did wrong. Our soldiers and service-people did wrong. I sinned. You sinned. We all sinned.

Violence leads nowhere. I know this from my own life, the life of a sinner.

We may sometimes destroy. We’re Catholics; we believe in just war theory. But Our Lord often called us to a higher way.

If we want to make progress in our security, we should react without anger and without destruction. We must sometimes accept the violence sometimes done to us – the violence of terrorists plane-crashing into our country and gunning us down – with unrequited peace. We must turn the other cheek.

This weekend is an anniversary of the American Independence Day. Let us remember that true freedom lies in freedom to do good, not in freedom to do evil. Let us remember our relationships with each other.

Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner. Lord Jesus, have mercy on us, sinners.
Amen.

May the Lord smile on you and bless you forever!
Amen.
Click to expand...
You’re preaching to the Choir. That’s alright get it off your chest.
 
I also think it was the wrong decision to go to war with Iraq and Afghanistan. The US government should have tried to solve their issues diplomatically.
 
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