Aging Parents Questions

[EasterJoy]

Your DIL was a bit rude even if she was only trying to help and I think you should have said something. Maybe a simple “Thanks, dear, but I got this!”

As for the rest…really? At 70 years old you know that things happen and often unexpectedly. What if you had a stroke and were unable to speak? What if you were in a car accident and in a coma? What if you took a nasty fall and were unconscious? It’s not unreasonable to let your kin know if you want maximum medical intervention or to let nature take its course.

You and your husband have your mental faculties NOW. The very best time to have this talk and make your wishes known is when no one can doubt you are in your right mind. You cannot say that you will both be mentally sound in 6 months or next year or in 5 years. It’s not like having this discussion means family members are circling your estate like vultures ready to redecorate. It just means that everyone is aware of your wishes when it comes to healthcare decisions in case of incapacitation or sudden illness and what to do in case you and/or your husband suddenly pass away.

I love my MIL and FIL. They are wonderful, strong, intelligent people. But my husband, his siblings and I would sure feel better if there was some sort of plan in place that we were all aware of just in case so that we could be assured that we were following their wishes. Not to mention that my husband has 4 siblings and 2 sisters in law. Without a clear plan to follow I can imagine the arguments about financial, legal, and medical decisions.

My mother died unexpectedly at 44. She verbally instructed me to give certain things to certain people in case of her death a few weeks before it happened. I followed her wishes. I got flack from various family members during the wake when I was doing as instructed because no one else knew I was just following orders. That was very hard considering I was also grieving her loss. Had she let other family members know her wishes at the same time or at least let them know I had instructions she could have saved me some pain. Additionally, there were a lot of decisions to be made regarding her funeral arrangements. Since I had no instructions I had to wing it and make snap decisions during the first days of heavy gried based on what I thought she would want. I hope I got it right. I think I did. But it sure would have been comforting to know for sure and I would have known for sure had those details also been discussed.

The more children you have, the more good you do by having your wishes spelled out very clearly. The ones who do not get any “say” will take it much better when it is because Mom and Dad had the say about their own lives, and not because some other sibling (or worse, some in-law) came in and took everything over. If no one is doing anything and someone picks up the ball and does it, well…remember that there are times when no good deed goes unpunished. If you are the person your mom and dad wants to run the show when they can’t, be sure to find out what they want, write it down, and do it because Mom and Dad told you that is what to do. Do not be the family member who put their decisions onto the family matriarch and patriarch, whether you want to or you don’t. You can’t win, no matter how “wise” you are compared to the rest of the family.

 

[Annie39]

Your DIL was a bit rude even if she was only trying to help and I think you should have said something. Maybe a simple “Thanks, dear, but I got this!”

As for the rest…really? At 70 years old you know that things happen and often unexpectedly. What if you had a stroke and were unable to speak? What if you were in a car accident and in a coma? What if you took a nasty fall and were unconscious? It’s not unreasonable to let your kin know if you want maximum medical intervention or to let nature take its course.

You and your husband have your mental faculties NOW. The very best time to have this talk and make your wishes known is when no one can doubt you are in your right mind. You cannot say that you will both be mentally sound in 6 months or next year or in 5 years. It’s not like having this discussion means family members are circling your estate like vultures ready to redecorate. It just means that everyone is aware of your wishes when it comes to healthcare decisions in case of incapacitation or sudden illness and what to do in case you and/or your husband suddenly pass away.

I love my MIL and FIL. They are wonderful, strong, intelligent people. But my husband, his siblings and I would sure feel better if there was some sort of plan in place that we were all aware of just in case so that we could be assured that we were following their wishes. Not to mention that my husband has 4 siblings and 2 sisters in law. Without a clear plan to follow I can imagine the arguments about financial, legal, and medical decisions.

My mother died unexpectedly at 44. She verbally instructed me to give certain things to certain people in case of her death a few weeks before it happened. I followed her wishes. I got flack from various family members during the wake when I was doing as instructed because no one else knew I was just following orders. That was very hard considering I was also grieving her loss. Had she let other family members know her wishes at the same time or at least let them know I had instructions she could have saved me some pain. Additionally, there were a lot of decisions to be made regarding her funeral arrangements. Since I had no instructions I had to wing it and make snap decisions during the first days of heavy gried based on what I thought she would want. I hope I got it right. I think I did. But it sure would have been comforting to know for sure and I would have known for sure had those details also been discussed.

Like you said, your hubby and his siblings would feel better. The parents are the ones who should be thought of first.

In our case only one of the sons will have a say regarding how things will go. We had a short discussion about this recently. This summer when we travel to his state to look for a house we will discuss this further. None of my other boys know about this and for a reason I don’t care to go into. If we “go” before things are concrete so be it. Into every life a little rain must fall. I still wonder why his dad is not included in that talk. We of the older crowd are not imbeciles. What the op perceives as defensive may be a reaction to having been insulted.

Annie

 

[Alphonsus_John]

Annie39:

That’s wise John because if my boys locked the doors to keep me in I believe they would regret that for the rest of their lives. I wonder if your discription of your mom as prickly and defensive is correct. Could it be more like she thinks that you are over steping your bounds? I don’t think that you said that there is anything mentally wrong with your dad so I wonder why he isn’t invited to this “end-of-life” talk.

When I said dragon lady earlier I actually use that term with much respect. My mother is a very accomplished and strong woman. When she was young she traveled all over the world and had a lot of adventures. She’s used to being in charge and does not like to be questioned. She’s also very private. I don’t doubt that she thinks my brother and I are overstepping our bounds, but when my dad can barely climb a flight of stairs and my mother refuses to hire lawn care or a maid service but tries to do it all herself in addition to taking care of my father, I think my worry is sensible.

EasterJoy:

Ask your mom what plans she has if she dies or is incapacitated before your dad dies. Get specific: What if she has a stroke, is put into a wheelchair, and can’t tell you what she wants? …

Thank you very much for the link and the specific questions, which I agree are important and must be asked. I also think Dad should be there too. Mom won’t feel as on the spot and he has a right to be there.

 

[EasterJoy]

Thank you very much for the link and the specific questions, which I agree are important and must be asked. I also think Dad should be there too. Mom won’t feel as on the spot and he has a right to be there.

If you are respectful of their right to decide their own lives the way they want to–including your dad’s decision to just do what your mom thinks ought to happen, if they decide that–and if you keep this on the ground of making sure that their desires are made known specifically so that they can be respected, but in the context of asking whether they’ve made the arrangements necessary to have that happen, I think you’ll have done your best. They may not want to listen to what you’re suggesting, but you’ll have tried.

Again, I think doing this for your own situation will communicate that this is something adults do nowadays, because people don’t want to lose control in the way that people used to do and because the laws have changed, and not something that “old people” are expected to do. Otherwise, you’ll have to say, “OK, Mom, but I hope I’m not put on the spot to make your decisions for you when you can’t, with only my own judgment to rely on when I could have had yours, too.”

 

[Annie39]

When I said dragon lady earlier I actually use that term with much respect. My mother is a very accomplished and strong woman. When she was young she traveled all over the world and had a lot of adventures. She’s used to being in charge and does not like to be questioned. She’s also very private. I don’t doubt that she thinks my brother and I are overstepping our bounds, but when my dad can barely climb a flight of stairs and my mother refuses to hire lawn care or a maid service but tries to do it all herself in addition to taking care of my father, I think my worry is sensible.

Thank you very much for the link and the specific questions, which I agree are important and must be asked. I also think Dad should be there too. Mom won’t feel as on the spot and he has a right to be there.

Let’s see. If mom is a very accomplished and strong woman and it is your dad who is not physically able to do hard work it would seem to me that it is up to dad to tell mom that he would like it if he could arrange help with chores if you and your bro are not able to do that. You say that you are sure that your mom thinks that her offspring are overstepping their bounds. Did it ever occur to you that you may be doing just that. Hmm she is a strong, independent lady with all of her mental faculties and your dad who is not in such good physical shape does have his mental faculties. Don’t you think that maybe it is dad who should hire someone to help his wife if this is her desire? This strong lady and her hubby seem perfectly capable of making these decisions. Now if one of my boys came over and saw one of us working too hard and

Hey mom why don’t you hire someone to do some of the heavy duties around here. That would be okay but if she is like me be prepared to be told where the lawn mower is.

Annie

 

[qui_est_ce]

That’s wise John because if my boys locked the doors to keep me in I believe they would regret that for the rest of their lives.

Annie

I don’t think anybody is trying lock anybody up. There are senior living apartments nowadays. There is one right in our neighborhood. Catholic.

I moved down the street from my mom so I could be instantly available to her. She was 86 at the time. She is sharp and on the ball, but at her age, now nearly 90, her body is giving out on her. We sibs had a meeting with her at 85 about driving. She got really mad and insisted she could drive. She had been in several auto accidents in which she rear ended people. We kindly told her we were worried about all the rude speed demons out there, so she accepted that for our peace of mind. We divied up the driving needs and so far it has helped (there are 4 of us)

Mom lives in a three story townhouse with the laundry in the basement and her bedroom on the 2nd floor. She can hardly get up and down the steps. We asked her to consider moving into the senior INDEPENDENT living apartments. Again, she got mad and said NO. She agreed to wear an SOS bracelet, but she never did it because it “bothered” her, and anyway, the phone was right there in her sitting room where she sits. Well, the inevitable happened. When she was 87, she fell and broke her hip. It took her three hours to crawl to the phone.

Now she wears the bracelet all the time.

She finally agreed to visit the Catholic senior living place around the corner. She was shocked, SHOCKED at how beautiful, bright, and clean it was. I said, “did you really think we wanted to stick you in a nursing home?” The nun in charge told us that people’s health improves when they live there. There is more “straight-walking,” activities to exercise the mind, physical therapy for “body balance,” etc. It still took us a YEAR after that to get her to put herself on the list. There is daily mass, shuttles to the grocery store and cultural event. She just sits by herself in a corner of her sofa all day long. The doctor diagnosed her with “situational depression.” We go over often, especially my one sister and I because with both moved with two blocks of her. But it’s never enough.

No matter how much you think you’ve got things covered, there are always new ones coming up. About three weeks ago we had a tornado. When the sirens went off, I went to the basement. The next day, I got together with my mom and she commented on the weather last night. I said, “didn’t you go down to the basement?” I suddenly realized she wasn’t able to hear the sirens and I should have called her to let her know to go to the basement. She said, “It wasn’t that bad out.” ??? It was green/black, hailing, the sirens were going off and telling us to “seek shelter immediately.”

Well, she is moving there next week!! Mom had made impossible demands on what kind of apartment she was going to get (she wanted 2 beds, 2 baths, balcony). Well, one came up, along with a unit with 2 beds, 1 bath. She chose the 2-bed one bath!!!

We are all so happy and excited for her. It will be a whole new life for her. When she gets to the point where she can’t prepare her meals or bathe herself, she can move on to assisted living over there.

At age 90, our worries are not her dying, we all die, it’s worry about becoming an invalid due to accidents which could have been prevented.

She can now get out without her having to call somebody for a ride. I know it can be humiliating to always have to ask for help.

It took a lot of talking and sticking together. And of course, prayer.

 

[Bonnie]

Annie - I think you’re missing the point. The time to make decisions is when you have the capability to make them. And it is prudent for the adult children to know what these plans are and know where the paperwork is.

As an example: I have arranged new homes for my animals in case I should die or be unable to care for them suddenly. These people may not know when this happens and will have to be contacted. If my husband and children don’t have a list of these people, my plans will not be carried out.

I’m only 60 and hope to live a lot longer, but my grandmother (who I resemble) died suddenly at 65. I’m not taking any chances.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Hey mom why don’t you hire someone to do some of the heavy duties around here. That would be okay but if she is like me be prepared to be told where the lawn mower is.

Annie

You sound very stubborn. Alphonsus’s only other sibling lives out of town. Alphonsus probably has a family of her own.

I you can’t do things for yourself or pay somebody to do them, move to a place free from the baggage.

I have friends who have done that. And they’re happy they did it while they were still young enough to withstand the moves and the sorting of clutter that accompanies that.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Annie - I think you’re missing the point. The time to make decisions is when you have the capability to make them. And it is prudent for the adult children to know what these plans are and know where the paperwork is.

As an example: I have arranged new homes for my animals in case I should die or be unable to care for them suddenly. These people may not know when this happens and will have to be contacted. If my husband and children don’t have a list of these people, my plans will not be carried out.

I’m only 60 and hope to live a lot longer, but my grandmother (who I resemble) died suddenly at 65. I’m not taking any chances.

Hi Bonnie-

You are so right-on! I am close to your age and have given these things a lot of thought for myself. And it’s not only a matter of dying. If they fall and hurt themselves, if they get a stroke, heart-attack. All these things can debilitate them and then they might have to go into a skilled nursing center. Much worse than facing your current limitations.

 

[Alphonsus_John]

Let’s see. If mom is a very accomplished and strong woman and it is your dad who is not physically able to do hard work it would seem to me that it is up to dad to tell mom that he would like it if he could arrange help with chores if you and your bro are not able to do that. You say that you are sure that your mom thinks that her offspring are overstepping their bounds. Did it ever occur to you that you may be doing just that. Hmm she is a strong, independent lady with all of her mental faculties and your dad who is not in such good physical shape does have his mental faculties. Don’t you think that maybe it is dad who should hire someone to help his wife if this is her desire? This strong lady and her hubby seem perfectly capable of making these decisions. Now if one of my boys came over and saw one of us working too hard and

Hey mom why don’t you hire someone to do some of the heavy duties around here. That would be okay but if she is like me be prepared to be told where the lawn mower is.

Annie

Your posts are not helpful because you appear to believe that I have no clue about my parents’ personalities and your posts also appear to convey that I do not have their best interests at heart.

We both live out of state from my parents. My wife and I are going through our infertility woes, both of us having surgery in the past few months and our own house to take care of. I help out when I can, but can’t go there every weekend to do yard work.

Please stop.
qui est ce:

We are all so happy and excited for her. It will be a whole new life for her. When she gets to the point where she can’t prepare her meals or bathe herself, she can move on to assisted living over there.

I am happy for you and your mom. In addition to going through the good advice in this thread, I’ll pray for both of them.

 

[KrazyKat]

Thanks for the responses so far. Just a clarification, my parents assure me they have a will and what not. I’m the executor. I have no idea where any of it is and I get brushed aside when I ask its location. Also for clarification “the talk” refers to their aging plans; e.g. having two homes with stairs, not near their children, etc.

As for hoarding, they’re not terrible. It’s not anywhere near that show “hoarders”, but they have difficulty throwing things away so they keep broken appliances, old clothes, etc. so that basements and attics are stuffed.

I appreciate the advice on their dignity and my brother and my brother and I don’t want to be “those adult children” shoving their parents into a nursing home against their wishes. But I fear that a combination of denial and no planning is going to hurt them in the long run the way it has hurt the parents of friends and co-workers.

My brother is coming up for fourth of July and this is my tentative plan:

1. Let my mom know ahead of time that we’ll want to talk about it so she’s not shocked. (Dad will do whatever mom wants so she’ll end up being the decision maker).
2. Ask her what her plans are.
3. Depending on the answer to question 2., offer to help arrange things if they want it.
4. If she gets mad or truly gives the impression that she has no plan, tell her that we’re not trying to force her to do anything, but that we love and care about her and that we don’t want to see something really bad happen because no planning was done.

My brother is onboard with this so we’re on the same page.

If anyone thinks there’s something wrong with this plan, let me know. I’m not sure how firm I should be. I’ve brought this up several times over the past year or two, but I get brushed off with either, “We’ve thought about it” or “Who’s going to do xxx”.

This sounds like a good plan. Your approach comes from the heart. I have prearranged and prepaid for everything and my named executor knows where all documents are. Many elderly do not feel comfortable talking about this until they become ill.

 

[Bonnie]

And it’s not only a matter of dying. If they fall and hurt themselves, if they get a stroke, heart-attack. All these things can debilitate them and then they might have to go into a skilled nursing center. Much worse than facing your current limitations.

As my parents got older they realized they could no longer take care of their 5 acres, so they sold it (which was heart wrenching for us all - I was born & grew up there) and moved to a house in the suburbs. What they couldn’t foresee was that the fancy tub in the master bath would quickly become unusable for both of them. Good thing there was also a shower with hand rails & wheelchair access.

The stairs were also a problem after Mom died. Daddy kept insisting he could do his own laundry, but he fell more than once. One sister finally took over his laundry & we told him firmly, “No more stairs!”

It doesn’t take much debility for stairs to become either a safety hazard or a complete barrier to half of the house.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

It amazes me that parents can be so damn defensive about this subject. Is it a denial of death? They don’t want to talk about a day when they might be dependent upon others…or they are secretive and don’t want anyone to know their business. Well, if their estate goes to probate, then EVERYONE will know their business because it’ll be a matter of public record! “Into every life some rain must fall?” Really? I know people who are like this but it still hacks me off. If you have problems with your children, solve them NOW, don’t wait to punish them after you die!

My sons are going to know what needs to happen should I die suddenly. They are going to know what to do and who to call if hubby and I go at the same time. I would urge the poster who is going to leave one of her children in charge of the estate, with the others not knowing anything, to rethink this plan. If she is that worried about those children now, while she is still alive, think of what kind of living hell they will make their sibling go through. I think you really need to think carefully about making one child the executor. It’s not an easy job in the best of cases and if there are funds that are to be distributed unequally, it’s going to be even more thankless and could ruin the relationship between the siblings FOREVER.

Frankly, if my husband and I have anything we want to give our sons, it’s going to happen while we are still alive and then anything else will be set up as charity (except perhaps the house). This after-death punishment with money or property is for the birds. Keeping your kids in the dark about your estate plan or will is passive-aggressive and cruel. We ALL DIE! Get over yourselves and give them some credit for wanting to love and take care of you, not just your money!

 

[qui_est_ce]

As my parents got older they realized they could no longer take care of their 5 acres, so they sold it (which was heart wrenching for us all - I was born & grew up there) and moved to a house in the suburbs. What they couldn’t foresee was that the fancy tub in the master bath would quickly become unusable for both of them. Good thing there was also a shower with hand rails & wheelchair access.

The stairs were also a problem after Mom died. Daddy kept insisting he could do his own laundry, but he fell more than once. One sister finally took over his laundry & we told him firmly, “No more stairs!”

It doesn’t take much debility for stairs to become either a safety hazard or a complete barrier to half of the house.

KEY words here.

 

[Bonnie]

I think you really need to think carefully about making one child the executor. It’s not an easy job in the best of cases and if there are funds that are to be distributed unequally, it’s going to be even more thankless and could ruin the relationship between the siblings FOREVER.

My sis who lived with my parents was the only executor. When I found this out I let my dad know that this was not a good idea and the other sister should be the executor (I was out of the picture as I live too far away). He thought I didn’t trust her, but that wasn’t it - I felt she would be overwhelmed by the job. After he died, I found out that he must have thought things over. He kept the one sister on, but added the other as co-executor.

Because I was right - she is overwhelmed by the whole thing - it’s taking longer than it should have. But with the other sister on board as co-executor, we’re finally getting somewhere, and the paperwork is being done correctly.

And the mess isn’t helping our sibling relationship at all.

Just thought of something - if the executor is a friend, he or she should be younger, not the same age. I remember reading about an executor who was the same age as the parents, who died at a pretty advanced age. The executor took his duties seriously, but was slow and made errors. I believe he sold the house for less than it should have been, so the children didn’t get all they could have. That’s the part of our wills that needs to be changed - my sister is still listed as executor and she’s only a little younger than I am.

 

[maryjk]

Much of their life is spent in the hands of the medical industry due to my dad’s health issues. That and they’re very old school when it comes to mental health issues. Although it very well may be true, I don’t think that suggesting that they’re depressed will be received well at all.

**My plan was not for some sort of intervention; it will just be brother, mom, and I. But she’s a prickly and defensive woman so I expect a fight no matter how soft a touch we use.
**
The our piece of mind part is very good. I will remember that.

I found that “the talk” is very much like “the talk” that they had with me when I was young. You know, the birds and the bees?

It wasn’t just a one time sit down and hash it all out. It was pits and pieces over time.

It was hard for them to face the fact that they were getting older and eventually they wouldn’t be able to take care of themselves. But by taking it bit by bit, we worked it all out.

When the end for my parents came, I knew what kind of medical intervention they wanted or didn’t want, who to call or notify, who they wanted to speak at the funeral and where they wanted buried. Before that, we moved them, when they needed it to an apartment and then moved my father to our house. But it came slowly, not all at once.

So take it easy, and remember that they don’t want to give up their independence before they have to.

 

[Alphonsus_John]

So take it easy, and remember that they don’t want to give up their independence before they have to.

Good advice and I understand that it will take a little while. I actually want them to have as much independence as they want for as long as they can. I want them to be happy. The family meeting will be just a first step.

One thing is that they talked about selling one of their houses and improving the accessibility of the other fifteen years ago and it hasn’t happened.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Good advice and I understand that it will take a little while. I actually want them to have as much independence as they want for as long as they can. I want them to be happy. The family meeting will be just a first step.

One thing is that they talked about selling one of their houses and improving the accessibility of the other fifteen years ago and it hasn’t happened.

They cannot be independent if they are tied down. Sooner or later (sooner in your case) these houses will become prisons for them.

 

[anon1234567]

Gee! It’s getting a little hot in here, Alphonsus just wants things to be a little bit easier for her mum and their wishes to be put down in writing.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Gee! It’s getting a little hot in here, Alphonsus just wants things to be a little bit easier for her mum and their wishes to be put down in writing.

HIS mum, he has said that he and his wife are TTC.