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PRmerger
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Solmyr
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Oh, no. It was borrowed by Catholicism, but it was not originally proposed by Catholicism.This is very Catholic.
You have it backwards. Some catholic teachings reflect secular truths.
What would be surprising for me if you actually answered one or two of our questions, like “Do you actually understand why the series of “WHY’s” must stop eventually?” And it would be even more surprising if you had the correct answer to it. Hint: you could look up “brute fact” and “infinite descent”.
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PRmerger
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Really. Is this Catholic teaching you are professing? Or is this some other morality you’re embracing right now?
Incidentally, did you know that geese don’t talk and fly with women and children on their backs?
I hope that when you’re a parent (because obviously you’re not a parent now), you never read Mother Goose to your children. (See your explanation above).
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Yes, you are very Catholic when you say this. Although I would tweak it a bit as it’s *a little *uninformed.
If it’s a mortal sin, it presupposes that it’s done “knowingly”, so it’s a bit otiose to say “knowingly commit” a mortal sin.
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PRmerger
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And this is very Catholic, too.
Wow. Do you stand in front of the microwave pacing because your Lipton Cup o’ Soup is taking more than 10 seconds?
Sheesh. You posed the question not even 24 hours ago.
It is normative, in the culture of online discourse, to give a poster a bit more than 4 hours to respond to a post.
Well, some will. Some won’t.
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Solmyr
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So you do NOT understand, even though I gave you the hint. No surprise.
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PRmerger
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I am enjoying this discourse immensely, Sol.
And it’s clear that you’re considering things you’ve never considered before.
#goodthing
#seedsplanted
Let’s continue.
Perhaps you could explain what you mean a bit more? No hints, please. Just straight-up dialogue.
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Aloysium
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The series of "why’s’ will stop when it arrives at the one true reality which is our relationship with God. No ideas can suffice, definitely not statement of facts derived from empirical research. The question has to do with meaning, purpose, final causes. And, they cannot be grasped without an encounter with Reality itself, the indisputable living Truth. As long as the answers come from the elements of this world, the “why’s” will spin on and on. The absurdity of mundane answers can be projected onto the question itself, making it appear senseless. The problem arises, searching in the wrong place.
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PRmerger
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Solmyr
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Nice poetic sentences. But St Augustine said: “If you do understand, then it is not God.” So how could God be presented as an explanation for anything?
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Aloysium
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Intellectual understanding is straw compared to the bread of reality. I’m not sure there’s much point in presenting God as an explanation for anything. It may come across that way to someone looking for explanations. The point of discussing where He is to be found, is to deepen one’s relationship with God. Knowledge of the beloved does arise as He reveals Himself. But, it is all in the loving, not in the facts.
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PRmerger
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That’s a partial but not complete way of translating St. Augustine’s famous mantra: * si comprehendis non est Deus. *
Better explained as this: if you think you understand all there is about God, then what you have understood is something else, not God.
But that’s not the same thing as saying : God cannot be the explanation for anything.
That’s bad logic.
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Solmyr
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Most humans have a natural tendency to find explanations. We are an inquisitive species. We want to gain intellectual understanding. If you look around you, you will see the results of these endeavors. Starting with your computer, of course. And the internet you use. And the car you drive. The medication you take. Everything that lifted us above the level of the cave-men comes from our desire to gain intellectual understanding. Of course there is friendship, love, and other nice emotions.
This intellectual curiosity started with our ancestors. Since they lacked the knowledge they posited all sorts of “gods” as explanations. Rain gods, hunt gods… all sorts of gods. They made sacrifices for those gods, they made ritual paintings to ask for their benevolent interference. Just like the “Prayer Intentions” here of this forum. Not much of a difference, is there? Tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of years, and still asking for divine help, even when they are told that “God is immutable”. (And when someone says that the prayers are for our own benefit, they display their ignorance about the difference between meditative and supplicative or intercessory prayers.)
That is exactly backwards. If the very existence of the alleged loved one is not beyond any doubt, then one cannot start a relationship. And, contrary to your belief, there is no revelation. Some people assert that they “experience” God in some personal level, but they are unable to tell us, HOW can someone else achieve this. When others ask for specifics, they are slapped down by saying: “how do you dare to demand God to jump through hoops”? And they don’t realize that their “apologetics” is the biggest obstacle for those who want to learn. Moreover they conveniently forget the adage: “ask and you will receive”, and “knock and the door will be opened” - which, of course never happens.
Without facts there can be no “love”. The word “love” when you use it, has no meaning. It cannot be told apart from hate and indifference.
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PRmerger
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This demonstrates an impoverished understanding of what is meant by “God is immutable”.
God allows prayers to change the course of events.
That is NOT the same as saying “God is changeable”.
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AgnosticBoy
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Agnosticism, or at least how Huxley defined it, is about avoiding dogmatism. Agnosticism has no set creed, tenets (except one), nor philosophy. While avoiding dogmatism is not exclusive to agnosticism, but agnostics would have to avoid it on all matters, whereas atheism and theism comes with preset dogmas, e.g. naturalism, supernaturalism, materialism, spiritualism, etc. When you have these preset dogmas in place it’s hard to remain objective.
Does God exist?
Many atheists believe that God does not exist.
Many agnostics are uncertain if God exists or not, and that’s even on the level of belief.
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PRmerger
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And any Agnostic who is interested in truth is obligated to examine all of the arguments that are presented for the existence of God.
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Solmyr
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All 666 of them! They are collected here:godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm
Of course just one valid argument would be sufficient.
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PRmerger
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Give me your understanding of what’s the best of the arguments presented for God’s existence, and why you think it fails.All 666 of them! They are collected here:godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm
Of course just one valid argument would be sufficient.
In your own words, of course.
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PRmerger
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Not sure why you bolded that?
Is a reference to Nero supposed to have some sort of significance?
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Solmyr
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Not even a photo-finish can tell them apart. They all come in as first (or last) depending on your point of view. Is the glass half empty or half full? Though I rather doubt whether you read all 666 (the mark of the Beast) of them… it takes some time, due to laughing uproariously. And yes, they are caricatures, but remember a caricature enhances the pertinent features of the original, making it more recognizable.
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