Agnostic versus Atheist

[puzzledtoo]

If someone researches, studies, and tries to find truth but can’t come up with a definite answer to satisfy them on whether gods exist or not they are called lazy because they self identify as an agnostic? On the other hand someone is told something as a child (there is god or there are gods) and believes this without question without studying they are not lazy?
I personally believe in a creator from what I can observe of nature. This is my “proof”. I also know many folks that when asked why they believe in god they will say “I believe what it says in the bible.” and that is their “proof”. Hence the name of puzzledtoo.

 

[Vic_Taltrees_UK]

Are you suggesting that there ARE married bachelors? -_-

In which case, I would like to call your bluff and/or remind you that the definition of bachelor is an unmarried man.

Their wives will help you with that one (with reference to their lifestyle).

I was adding a layer.

Which we will often find ourselves doing with some “thing” as deep and complex as God.

Bradski strikes me as the kind of “atheist” that was around when I was a boy.

 

[FractalFire]

Their wives will help you with that one (with reference to their lifestyle).

I was adding a layer.

Which we will often find ourselves doing with some “thing” as deep and complex as God.

Bradski strikes me as the kind of “atheist” that was around when I was a boy.

It seems to me that you are playing word games. I was using the definition of bachelor that depends on unmarried status. Do you agree that this is entirely impossible for someone to be both married and unmarried? Then you agree with me that I have disproved the existence of a married bachelor. So my point remains – it is possible to disprove a universal negative and indeed sometimes it is very simple to do so.

 

[FractalFire]

If someone researches, studies, and tries to find truth but can’t come up with a definite answer to satisfy them on whether gods exist or not they are called lazy because they self identify as an agnostic? On the other hand someone is told something as a child (there is god or there are gods) and believes this without question without studying they are not lazy?
I personally believe in a creator from what I can observe of nature. This is my “proof”. I also know many folks that when asked why they believe in god they will say “I believe what it says in the bible.” and that is their “proof”. Hence the name of puzzledtoo.

Many agnostics are genuinely intelligent and have studied the issue. Many others have not even tried. You have to look at the individual. Personally, I think agnostics are on average much more likely to have studied the issue thoroughly that atheists, if only because it usually means they have realized how hard the burden of proof is on atheism and how nearly unreachable it is to achieve (not impossible, at least, in theory, but fairly difficult). Some, however, are merely uninterested or do not care and yes, I would call that slightly “lazy,” like the Christians you mentioned. We should never assume it without proof, though, just as we should not assume that anyone Christian is intellectually lazy before looking into their specific situation.

 

[Jelrak_TB]

With respect to the existence of God, what material difference is there between being an agnostic and being an atheist?

Your thoughts?

It might perhaps be claimed that an agnostic may be somewhat more cautious in considering which actions might possibly be able to offend an almighty being…and thereby behave accordingly…?

 

[KnowtheSilence]

If neither the atheist nor the agnostic prays, what difference does the other distinction make?

Some agnostics - by either definition - still believe (usually by some leap of faith) and will pray regularly, so even if prayer life is the only point of comparison, you may still come up with a difference.

Still, I think it’s fair to ask why that would be your only or main point of comparison.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Some agnostics - by either definition - still believe (usually by some leap of faith) and will pray regularly, so even if prayer life is the only point of comparison, you may still come up with a difference.

Still, I think it’s fair to ask why that would be your only or main point of comparison.

They are both wishy-washy. Atheists say they don’t believe in God, but there *might *be one, and Agnostics just don’t know, they just can’t say, they just can’t commit to anything.

 

[WJeffrey]

Just tell them, “I will pray for you.” It sets them off, but they really can’t say anything because it is a nice thing to do.

Then you follow through, because it is the right thing to do.

 

[puzzledtoo]

Wishy-washy-interesting theory. Someone says “no there is no god”. This sounds like a firm stance to me. Someone says “I don’t know” sounds like they have questions and not all the answers. Sounds like both are being honest-apparently brutally honest.
An atheist I would assume is taking responsibility for their actions by not blaming god or some diabolical being for their faults, how they behave or misbehave.
A “believer” may blame god for what is happening to them or others because they aren’t good enough. Some feel god is punishing them by making them sick or poor, etc… and if that isn’t enough they somehow feel that some diabolical being (satan or one of his minions) is always trying to get them to slip up and send them to hell. They refuse to take responsibility for their actions.
Nice, tell someone something because “it sets them off”

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Wishy-washy-interesting theory. Someone says “no there is no god”. This sounds like a firm stance to me. Someone says “I don’t know” sounds like they have questions and not all the answers. Sounds like both are being honest-apparently brutally honest.
An atheist I would assume is taking responsibility for their actions by not blaming god or some diabolical being for their faults, how they behave or misbehave.
A “believer” may blame god for what is happening to them or others because they aren’t good enough. Some feel god is punishing them by making them sick or poor, etc… and if that isn’t enough they somehow feel that some diabolical being (satan or one of his minions) is always trying to get them to slip up and send them to hell. They refuse to take responsibility for their actions.
Nice, tell someone something because “it sets them off”

Curiously enough, some atheists do blame God for the bad things. It’s really quite weird. They also hope for the afterlife. I’m not making this up, I have seen it here on CAF.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Curiously enough, some atheists do blame God for the bad things. It’s really quite weird. They also hope for the afterlife. I’m not making this up, I have seen it here on CAF.

Both the blaming and the hoping seem quite weird.

They want to enter the next life but don’t want to pay the price of admission.

They have to blame someone, usually the indifferent universe, for all the evil. With Christians, they will blame the Christian God. This is pure and unadulterated rebellion against the existence of evil anywhere. Yet the rebellion against God is the supreme evil.

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Some agnostics - by either definition - still believe (usually by some leap of faith) and will pray regularly, so even if prayer life is the only point of comparison, you may still come up with a difference.

Still, I think it’s fair to ask why that would be your only or main point of comparison.

I’ve never known an agnostic, or heard of one, who prays.

I think both the agnostic and the atheist share the common bond of not wanting to know God.

Why they don’t want to know God varies from one person to another.

But the start of conversion begins with a simple prayer, not with a cerebral conviction.

“Lord, if you are there, give me faith!”

 

[HelenRose]

With respect to the existence of God, what material difference is there between being an agnostic and being an atheist?

Your thoughts?

An agnostic is still open to reason and thinking.
An atheist has closed his or her mind.

 

[DaveBj]

I’ve never known an agnostic, or heard of one, who prays.

I think both the agnostic and the atheist share the common bond of not wanting to know God.

Why they don’t want to know God varies from one person to another.

But the start of conversion begins with a simple prayer, not with a cerebral conviction.

“Lord, if you are there, give me faith!”

Well said.

With reference to the bolded, another common bond is clinging to a favorite sin and hoping (sometimes desperately hoping) that there will be no judgment.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Both the blaming and the hoping seem quite weird.

They want to enter the next life but don’t want to pay the price of admission.

They have to blame someone, usually the indifferent universe, for all the evil. With Christians, they will blame the Christian God. This is pure and unadulterated rebellion against the existence of evil anywhere. Yet the rebellion against God is the supreme evil.

Yes it is really weird. I have actually heard an atheist talking about the universe holding her up, rather than God. She just substituted the word “universe” for “God”. Talk about avoidance!

 

[Lou2U]

An Atheist is a person who does not believe in the existence of a God or Gods. An Agnostic is a person who does not know whether to believe or not.

They are both wishy-washy. Atheists say they don’t believe in God, but there *might *be one, and Agnostics just don’t know, they just can’t say, they just can’t commit to anything.

I don’t agree. Not believing in an existence and something existing aren’t mutually exclusive.

I don’t know if a God exists. There could be one, there could not. Agnosticism literally means “without knowledge”, not that Agnostics “just don’t know, just can’t say”. So far, I have not seen anything to change my position. I’ve committed to learning more and keeping an open mind by being Agnostic.

Just tell them, “I will pray for you.” It sets them off, but they really can’t say anything because it is a nice thing to do.

Then you follow through, because it is the right thing to do.

Depends. It would bother me a lot if someone told me they would pray to me in a condescending or passive aggressive way because it’s disrespectful.

Wishy-washy-interesting theory. Someone says “no there is no god”. This sounds like a firm stance to me. Someone says “I don’t know” sounds like they have questions and not all the answers. Sounds like both are being honest-apparently brutally honest.
An atheist I would assume is taking responsibility for their actions by not blaming god or some diabolical being for their faults, how they behave or misbehave.
A “believer” may blame god for what is happening to them or others because they aren’t good enough. Some feel god is punishing them by making them sick or poor, etc… and if that isn’t enough they somehow feel that some diabolical being (satan or one of his minions) is always trying to get them to slip up and send them to hell. They refuse to take responsibility for their actions.
Nice, tell someone something because “it sets them off”

I agree with this. Being an Agnostic is the most honest position I can hold.

Lou

 

[Jelrak_TB]

They are both wishy-washy. Atheists say they don’t believe in God, but there *might *be one, and Agnostics just don’t know, they just can’t say, they just can’t commit to anything.

Is one wise to commit to that with which they are uncertain? Is uncertainty a result of a lack of will to seek answers, or is it more possibly a result of the discovery that each possible answer merely brings along with it a proportionately greater number of questions?

 

[Jelrak_TB]

Just tell them, “I will pray for you.” It sets them off, but they really can’t say anything because it is a nice thing to do.

Then you follow through, because it is the right thing to do.

This will surely bring forth a fair distinction, for the atheist might, in general, be unimpressed with such an offer, while the agnostic might instead be better willing to appreciate the sentiment that may lie behind same.

 

[Jelrak_TB]

Wishy-washy-interesting theory. Someone says “no there is no god”. This sounds like a firm stance to me. Someone says “I don’t know” sounds like they have questions and not all the answers. Sounds like both are being honest-apparently brutally honest.
An atheist I would assume is taking responsibility for their actions by not blaming god or some diabolical being for their faults, how they behave or misbehave.
A “believer” may blame god for what is happening to them or others because they aren’t good enough. Some feel god is punishing them by making them sick or poor, etc… and if that isn’t enough they somehow feel that some diabolical being (satan or one of his minions) is always trying to get them to slip up and send them to hell. They refuse to take responsibility for their actions.
Nice, tell someone something because “it sets them off”

Precisely this…

 

[Jelrak_TB]

I’ve never known an agnostic, or heard of one, who prays.

I think both the agnostic and the atheist share the common bond of not wanting to know God.

Why they don’t want to know God varies from one person to another.

But the start of conversion begins with a simple prayer, not with a cerebral conviction.

“Lord, if you are there, give me faith!”

I have prayed a simple prayer to be given guidance and to discover certainty. That God did not respond is one possibility…that I did not hear or properly understand His response is another…yet from God’s point of infinite view are they not much the same insofar as one might assess His apparently desired end-result?