Agnosticism

[Vimy_Ridge]

Being agnostic means that you do not know if there is a God. Neither believers nor unbelievers really know the answer to this question, so you could say both are in a sense agnostic.

So then are agnostics really just atheists who do not outright deny the existence of God? Some call them soft atheists.

What do you consider atheist, just denial or would you include unbelief without denial? Is the term agnostic useful?

 

[Presence]

The term Agnostic is not really used, as far as I understand, so much to define someone who doesn’t know whether or not God exists so much as it is used to define someone who chooses to not decide one way or another on the issue; they acknowledge their ignorance of the issue/do not care either way/are too wishy-washy to make a decision.

 

[tonyrey]

Being agnostic means that you do not know if there is a God. Neither believers nor unbelievers really know the answer to this question, so you could say both are in a sense agnostic.

You are right but many atheists claim that the concept of God is meaningless and there is therefore no need to disprove the existence of something which is meaningless. Many believers claim they have direct knowledge of God. Obviously it depends how you define knowledge.

So then are agnostics really just atheists who do not outright deny the existence of God? Some call them soft atheists.

It would not be fair to say that all agnostics are really atheists because many agnostics are genuinely uncertain and believe there is not enough evidence to reach a reasonable conclusion.

What do you consider atheist, just denial or would you include unbelief without denial?

It may refer to either because it simply means lack of belief in God or gods.

Is the term agnostic useful?

It is useful because general terms are necessary for classification purposes but of course they have their limitations.

 

[Vimy_Ridge]

You are right but many atheists claim that the concept of God is meaningless and there is therefore no need to disprove the existence of something which is meaningless.

It is hard to understand what exactly people mean by God, so the atheist does have a point. What is God? Some would say that “God is spirit”. OK, what is spirit then?

Maybe it is best to stick with the terms religious or non-religious when describing our position.

It could be said that what is God for many folks is either the scriptures, the Church or some combination of both. Maybe God is in reality simply your religion, I heard a Baptist preacher claim that the bible was actually God.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

The term Agnostic is not really used, as far as I understand, so much to define someone who doesn’t know whether or not God exists so much as it is used to define someone who chooses to not decide one way or another on the issue; they acknowledge their ignorance of the issue/do not care either way/are too wishy-washy to make a decision.

One of the saddest things I have witnessed was an inerview with Richard Feynman while he was dying of cancer.

It has been pointed out that there are two types of genius; 1. I could be like that if only I tried harder, 2. I could never be like that, he is sheer magic. Richard was the latter. There was no problem he tackled in the broad fields of science that he didn’t solve.

He was asked what did he think came next after death. He stated that he didn’t know. He had thought about it once but didn’t have an answer; so he decided to ignore the subject.

 

[AndrewJaffery]

Well, I joined this forum, and I put down Agnosticism as my ‘Religion’. Mostly, that’s just a default, as N/A makes no sense, Atheist sounds to Extreme, and I defenetly don’t fall under the Catholic/Protestant/Giant Spaghetti monster faiths.

I don’t know much of anything about religion, really. Raised in an Atheist family,ever been to mass, never read any of your silly best selling book in the world, never prayed…okay, once…but anyways…

I would say I’m unsure of God’s Excistance, in essence. There are a few types of Agnostics that I know of, as in Atheist Agnostics, or Theist Agnostics, who don’t believe in god/ do believe in Him, but also believe that there wont be any proof of it.

Also, as a side bar, Douglas Adams called Himself a Radical Atheist, so no one will confuse him with being agnostic.

Sorry if my post made no sense, just spittballing on a candy stomachache.

 

[tonyrey]

Well, I joined this forum, and I put down Agnosticism as my ‘Religion’. Mostly, that’s just a default, as N/A makes no sense, Atheist sounds to Extreme, and I defenetly don’t fall under the Catholic/Protestant/Giant Spaghetti monster faiths.

I don’t know much of anything about religion, really. Raised in an Atheist family,ever been to mass, never read any of your silly best selling book in the world, never prayed…okay, once…but anyways…

I would say I’m unsure of God’s Excistance, in essence. There are a few types of Agnostics that I know of, as in Atheist Agnostics, or Theist Agnostics, who don’t believe in god/ do believe in Him, but also believe that there wont be any proof of it.

Also, as a side bar, Douglas Adams called Himself a Radical Atheist, so no one will confuse him with being agnostic.

Sorry if my post made no sense, just spittballing on a candy stomachache.

 

[tonyrey]

Do you believe torturing children is evil? If so why?

 

[tonyrey]

It is hard to understand what exactly people mean by God, so the atheist does have a point. What is God? Some would say that “God is spirit”. OK, what is spirit then?

Maybe it is best to stick with the terms religious or non-religious when describing our position.

It could be said that what is God for many folks is either the scriptures, the Church or some combination of both. Maybe God is in reality simply your religion, I heard a Baptist preacher claim that the bible was actually God.

 

[tonyrey]

It is hard to understand what exactly people mean by God, so the atheist does have a point. What is God? Some would say that “God is spirit”. OK, what is spirit then?

What is matter? How does it exist? What causes it to exist? Why does it exist?
I ask these questions to illustrate the fact that the atheist like the believer in God has to accept the ultimate mystery of existence. The difference is that God is by definition personal, conscious, creative, free, rational and good, whereas matter lacks all these attributes and does not explain how they exist…

 

[AndrewJaffery]

Do you believe torturing children is evil? If so why?

… Was that to me? I’ll just assume it was.

Well…hmm…that’s a toughy…on one hand, it’s terrible, and on the other…it’s completely terrible. So yes, I do believe that torturing babies is evil, and children too. Why? It’s just as evil and wrong as torturing a normal person, even worse, as there is absolutely nothing one could even possible hope to gain, and they’re young to boot.

 

[tonyrey]

… Was that to me? I’ll just assume it was.

Well…hmm…that’s a toughy…on one hand, it’s terrible, and on the other…it’s completely terrible. So yes, I do believe that torturing babies is evil, and children too. Why? It’s just as evil and wrong as torturing a normal person, even worse, as there is absolutely nothing one could even possible hope to gain, and they’re young to boot.

Would it still be evil if everyone thought it is good to torture others? And the vital question is “why?” There must be a reason, don’t you think?

 

[AndrewJaffery]

Would it still be evil if everyone thought it is good to torture others? And the vital question is “why?” There must be a reason, don’t you think?

Well, it happens already. Lots of people DO think it’s good to torture. Like water boarding (Torture in my books) to get information. But that’s not the point you’re trying to make.

Why is it evil? Because it is! (Hurray for being concise). Because it is wrong to torture others. Or hurt others, or kill people, or rape…and such.

 

[tonyrey]

Why is it evil? Because it is! (Hurray for being concise). Because it is wrong to torture others. Or hurt others, or kill people, or rape…and such.

I entirely agree with you! In other words evil is real whether we like it or not. It is nonsense to believe it doesn’t matter what we do. Our lives have a purpose - to make ourselves and others happy by fighting against evil and doing what is right. Is that an accident? I leave you to judge for yourself…

 

[Dharles_Carwin]

Simply, atheism and theism deal with belief.

Agnosticism deals with knowledge

Everyone is agnostic for there is no real knowledge when it comes to god. One can believe in god, but one can not know there is a god. There is not sufficient evidence.

 

[crazzeto]

Being agnostic means that you do not know if there is a God. Neither believers nor unbelievers really know the answer to this question, so you could say both are in a sense agnostic.

So then are agnostics really just atheists who do not outright deny the existence of God? Some call them soft atheists.

What do you consider atheist, just denial or would you include unbelief without denial? Is the term agnostic useful?

I wouldn’t consider my self Agnostic, I know God exists, and walked the earth c. 2,000 years ago as Christ Jesus. I think that when taken as a whole, the evidence is over whelming. I do acknowlege that not everyone will be converted though. I still hope and pray though.

 

[AntiTheist]

He was asked what did he think came next after death. He stated that he didn’t know. He had thought about it once but didn’t have an answer; so he decided to ignore the subject.

It’s not “ignor[ing] the subject” to honestly answer that one does not know something. No one knows what happens to us after we die, though indeed the evidence suggests that consciousness ceases to exist.

Andrew:

Atheist sounds to Extreme

Well, atheist just means someone who doesn’t have a belief in a god. If you currently do not have a belief in a god, you are automatically an atheist, even if you think there’s a possibility that gods might exist.

Now, you don’t have to embrace the label if you don’t like how it sounds, but that’s essentially what you are.

tonyrey:

Do you believe torturing children is evil? If so why?

“Good” and “evil” are not objective qualities – they’re labels that we use to describe things that we like and don’t like according to our values.

Our values come from a number of natural sources: inherited empathy, reason, social training, tradition, and probably other sources that we have yet to discover.

The reason that just about everybody doesn’t like the idea of torturing children is because there’s almost no one whose values support it – and it’s not surprising, given that the vast majority of people have the natural empathy and social training that would make such an act repulsive to them.

But just because people have values in no way indicates that there is a supernatural source of “morality” who has created the universe.

 

[Dharles_Carwin]

I wouldn’t consider my self Agnostic, I know God exists, and walked the earth c. 2,000 years ago as Christ Jesus. I think that when taken as a whole, the evidence is over whelming. I do acknowlege that not everyone will be converted though. I still hope and pray though.

Actually you do know, you believe. There is nothing wrong with that, but one must understand there is a difference between believe and knowledge. Just because you really really really believe something, that does not make it knowledge.

 

[cerad]

Actually you do know, you believe. There is nothing wrong with that, but one must understand there is a difference between believe and knowledge. Just because you really really really believe something, that does not make it knowledge.

And besides, anyone who actually knows that a god exists automatically turns in to a robot. Very sad,

 

[Charlemagne_II]

There is little difference between an agnostic and an atheist. Bertrand Russell preferred to call himself an agnostic. Yet he wasted much ink arguing the case against God but never the case for God.