Agnus dei? say wha?

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chsngtailodogma

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someone gave me a little heart locket that had been blessed by “so-and-so”, and had holy nun-wax inside of it. it is supposed to ensure victory in battle, fend off plague, all kinds of amazing things. how am i supposed to take this seriously? like, “hey China, i’ve got what you need…”
if all this were true, this cheaply made mass distributed piece of aluminum or whatever should be locked away somewhere in the pentagon.
we are not supposed to be superstitious, but i can’t not think of it as anything but! you know, like the “miraculous medal”… is the medal “miraculous” or is it not?? i have been told before by a priest that the medal itself is not magic. so… what… i don’t understand… why would you need a medal that claims that if you wear it you will never drown or burn, etc… if it’s not the medal that is ensuring this… and if it’s god himself insuring it and not the medal itself then why do you need the medal for these things to be granted unto you?

please, i know the answer to this must be plain to see, but i just don’t see it.

???

thanks in advance!
 
Put it this way - these things are signs and reminders of committment and faith.

Rather like a wedding ring isn’t in itself anything magic, but it DOES serve to remind spouses of their wedding vows and just possibly helps in that way to strengthen them in times when they’re tempted to adultery.

Note how many married people will remove or accidentally-on-purpose ‘lose’ the wedding ring before or during an affair. It’s a meaningful object for sure.

So no, they’re not magic talismans, but if used/worn prayerfully and in good faith they just may help 🙂
 
chsngtailodogma said:
someone gave me a little heart locket that had been blessed by “so-and-so”, and had holy nun-wax inside of it. it is supposed to ensure victory in battle, fend off plague, all kinds of amazing things. how am i supposed to take this seriously? like, “hey China, i’ve got what you need…”
if all this were true, this cheaply made mass distributed piece of aluminum or whatever should be locked away somewhere in the pentagon.
we are not supposed to be superstitious, but i can’t not think of it as anything but! you know, like the “miraculous medal”… is the medal “miraculous” or is it not?? i have been told before by a priest that the medal itself is not magic. so… what… i don’t understand… why would you need a medal that claims that if you wear it you will never drown or burn, etc… if it’s not the medal that is ensuring this… and if it’s god himself insuring it and not the medal itself then why do you need the medal for these things to be granted unto you?

please, i know the answer to this must be plain to see, but i just don’t see it.

???

thanks in advance!
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It sounds like superstition to me. I wonder what nun wax is. Is it like the soap the Nazis made from human fat or what? There are medals and scapulars that have the promises of Mary or the Saints behind them to remind those who wear them to remain in God’s grace, but I have never heard any guarantees that if you jump off the Empire State wearing one the angels will come and bvear you up.
 
It’s called an Agnus Dei … nothing to do with ‘nun-wax’, rather it’s wax from a Paschal Candle that has been blessed by the Pope - there haven’t been any new ones produced for decades.
 
So no, they’re not magic talismans, but if used/worn prayerfully and in good faith they just may help 🙂

i’m sorry, i still don’t understand. they have no powers, but if you have them, then somehow they may help you?
 
chsngtailodogma said:
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LilyM:
So no, they’re not magic talismans, but if used/worn prayerfully and in good faith they just may help 🙂
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i’m sorry, i still don’t understand. they have no powers, but if you have them, then somehow they may help you?
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Reread the post - a wedding ring is a visual reminder to a person of their wedding vows, and having that reminder around can help a husband or wife stay faithful to those vows. Not through magic, but through natural psychology.

In the same way, having a medal or other religious object around is a reminder of our baptismal promises, our relationship to Christ or Mary and theirs to us … it can help us avoid sin and improve our prayer life … which things in themselves are helpful in times of trouble!
 
chsngtailodogma said:
i’m sorry, i still don’t understand. they have no powers, but if you have them, then somehow they may help you?
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They are devotions. Religious medals are struck to commemorate a variety of persons, places, and events. They are a devotional instrument.

Are you a Catholic?
 
i’m trying to be catholic! 😉

i am sorry. i don’t know if i’m just simple or what, but how can these things save you from drowning? because that’s what this thing claims that it does. it basically guarantees that*if you wear this faithfully, that you will not drown. and then there’s another tha†*pretty much guarantees that you will not go to hell if you die wearing it. that’s wha† it SAYS. that “this metal will” blah blah blah

that’s what it says. it doesn’t say it’s symbolic of your prayer life, it doesn’t say it’s commemorative, it doesn’t say it’s a visual reminder. it says if you wear this, miracles will happen.

i can’t remember which specific metals are supposed to do which thing, etc but they all make these claims, and that’s something i’m having a problem with. there are other issues with catholicism that i am having as well, to the point where if i wasn’t already baptised, i wouldn’t get baptised. but since i am baptised, i am trying my very best to put my doubts out there in the hopes tha† someone will be able to put these things into perspective for me.

so thanks in advance!
and thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut so far! i appreciate it!
 
I’ve never heard of any serious claim that any medal will save you from drowning or anything like that … such claims, at least if made seriously and believed seriously, are not in keeping with Catholicism and possibly sinfully superstitious and idolatrous.
 
Oh, you know how this kind of thing starts. “I heard that so and so was about to drown, but he miraculously managed to get out. And you know, he’d just put on that agnus dei locket that his aunt gave him that he hadn’t worn for months!” Etc., etc.

Basically, there’s all sorts of folk memories of amazing graces that God have given people, and that people associate with these sorts of little sacramentals. No doubt God does work through 'em on occasion; heck, he works through all kinds of crazy things, even you and me.

It doesn’t sound quite so overwhelming or weird if it’s just little stories here and there which appreciate God’s surprising little graces, but then there’s always somebody who puts it all together and makes a pamphlet! 🙂

You’ve got a nifty little thing. It’s got a small sacramental in it – the blessed wax. Treasure it for the kindness of the giver and the niftiness of the tiny little holy link to Rome.

And if you ever fall in a raging river and survive while wearing it, I guarantee that somebody will hear about it and remember, and assign it to the little locket. Maybe even you. 🙂
 

“I’ve never heard of any serious claim that any medal will save you from drowning or anything like that … such claims, at least if made seriously and believed seriously, are not in keeping with Catholicism and possibly sinfully superstitious and idolatrous.”​

exactly. that’s how i feel about it. unless i am misunderstanding somehow, which would be great if i was.

if anyone has some kind of metal with “instructions” or whatever, please quote it on here just so i can reference it. and maybe it would even explain it in a way that i could feel okay about.

thanks so much!

Min~ that is a great way to think about it! but the problem is, so many catholics believe what i percieve to be superstitious that it makes me uneasy believing some of the other things as well. like trying to classify myself within this group of people who i am supposed to believe what they do, when apparantly i don’t agree with alot of what they believe. know what i mean?

but yeah. the way you said would be a very acceptable way to look at it in my opinion. but i don’t know the intentions of the people who made it or the people who wear it, so it kinda puts a damper on things!(for me)
 
An Agnus Dei is a sacramental like Holy Water, Blessed Salt, a blessed Crucifix or Rosary etc. There is no ‘superstition’ about their use.

Unlike the Sacraments which possess power in their own right (Baptism washes you clean from all sin for instance), sacramentals depend upon the faith of the user. If prayers are answered or peril averted, it is a result of the faith of the person, not any ‘magical’ action of the object. The object helps us to strengthen our faith and bring it to mind more frequently.

For instance, I wear a crucifix. In and of itself, it offers no protection. However, since it is there always, I am reminded frequently of the price Jesus paid for me, of His Passion and Death which bought me. Any temptation to sin is brought up short by this reminder (well, mostly anyway), so in its way wearing a crucifix protects one from sinning. It is not the crucifix that stops me, but my faith which is reinforced by wearing the crucifix.

Here is the Catholic Encyclopedia Article:
newadvent.org/cathen/01220a.htm

SYMBOLISM AND USE
The symbolism of the Agnus Deis is best gathered from the prayers used at various epochs in blessing them. As in the paschal candle, the wax typifies the virgin flesh of Christ, the cross associated with the lamb suggests the idea of a victim offered in sacrifice, and as the blood of the paschal lamb of old protected each household from the destroying angel, so the purpose of these consecrated medallions is to protect those who wear or possess them from all malign influences. In the prayers of blessing, special mention is made of the perils from storm and pestilence, from fire and flood, and also of the dangers to which women are exposed in childbirth. It was formerly the custom in Rome to accompany the gift of an Agnus Dei with a printed leaflet describing its many virtues. Miraculous effects have been believed to follow the use of these objects of piety. Fires are said to have been extinguished, and floods stayed. The manufacture of counterfeits, and even the painting and ornamentation of genuine Agnus Deis, has been strictly prohibited by various papal bulls.
 
I have a lovely agnus dei.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

It was blessed by Pope Leo XIII in 1891. I suggest you read the link provided to you at the newadvent website.
 
chsngtailodogma said:
it basically guarantees that*if you wear this faithfully, that you will not drown. and then there’s another tha†*pretty much guarantees that you will not go to hell if you die wearing it. that’s wha† it SAYS. that “this metal will” blah blah blah!
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No, there is no “guarantee” attached to wearing a medal.

A sacramental is devotional. We ask for protection from God as part of the devotion.

Yes, there are documented cases of persons who miraculously were protected from some peril and who were also wearing a particular medal.
 
thanks! very informative!

i’m going to think for awhile. i’ll be back in a few days or so.

thanks everybody!
 
Mintaka…

although i have to wonder if that same theory applied to the guy who walked under a ladder…
 
i’m sorry. i really am trying to see this as anything but superstition. it seems that way no matter what way it is explained to me. maybe because i’m merging what i’m told and what i see and what i know. which is the natural way to make a decision imo

on the other hand, i can’t blame catholicism if there are superstitious catholics.

but should you blame catholicism for allowing something that is so easily misconstrued as superstition, worshipping graven images, idolatry, etc. would god want people to be accidentally superstitious or worse?

it seems to me that there alot of things that are misunderstood about catholicism, and rightfully so. would god want it to be this complicated and technical? also what i see is catholics explaining things one way, but demonstrating it differently. like they are trying to justify what they are doing by contradicting themselves when asked about it.

i’m not trying to be offensive, if i am. i don’t (think) i know any of you, or the state of your relationship with god. this is just what i percieve to be true given the experiences that i have had.

thanks all
 
Even though the popes haven’t consecrated any new Agnus Dei’s since 1964, they are still available from Carmelite nuns and other religious houses.

I have several Agnus Deis and have give away several to my friends.

I also have 3 whole-and-entire Agnus Dei’s consecrated by Pope Pius X and Pope Pius IX.

Google AGNUS DEI SACRAMENTAL for good articles explaining this little devotional. And yes, at times, God has worked miracles in connection with their use.
 
The item is not superstition, because it is not powerful in its own right, but because God has chosen to work through it. This is the key.

We can see from several places in Scripture that God does choose to work through physical items. For instance, God used Elijah’s bones to convey Grace and perform a miracle:
And Elisha died, and they buried him. And the bands of the Moabites invaded the land at the coming in of the year. And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet. (2 King 13:20-21)
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He similarly used St. Paul’s handkerchief:
“And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul: So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them. (Acts 19:11-12)”
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The reason for this is not that the handerchiefs were magical. Apart from God, they were just pieces of cloth. However, God chose to work through these items.

The reason for this is very, very, very, very, it cannot be emphasized enough just how much so, important.

Our faith is Incarnational. The center of our faith is the Incarnation of Christ, when the Second Person of the Holy Trinity became man by taking on the flesh for all eternity. God Himself, in the Person of Jesus Christ, is united to a physical, human body for all of eternity.

We are not, as many non-Catholics (though not all) seem to think (or at least as their practice unthinkingly implies), simply spirits trapped in bodies. Our bodies are a core part to our being. We are the union of spirit and flesh. This is what makes a human being a human being.

God uses physical items to convey Grace because we are physical beings. He made us this way. He became man, in part, so that we could better relate to Him. It’s a lot easier suffering for a God who you know understands because He suffered Himself, isn’t it? He knows that we are physical beings and need physical things to relate to. This is why He gave us the Sacraments: physical signs that convey Grace.

Things like your Agnus Dei and the Miraculous Medal are just like Elijah’s bone or Paul’s handkerchief. They are physical things that God has chosen out of Love to use to convey Grace so that we, human beings, can relate to and appreciate and better live a life taking advantage of that Grace.
 
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