Ah-men VS Ey-men

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thistle said:
It is American slang and has no place in the Church. Clergy and laity should not be allowed to use this sloppy pronunciation.
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Do yo have any evidence, even the smallest, that the Catholic Church supports this rather inflexible position?

Is it sloppy speech or just a* British* opinion that they should have some say over the way Americans speak?

Since I have provided the dictionary and you have shown nothing, I prefer to think this is the latter. I will await your documentation.
 
SMHW said:
Talking movies have only been around since 1927. Ay-men has likely been around since the 1500’s.
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Then I wonder if Whoopi Goldberg (“Sister Act”) has the copyrights on it now. 🙂
 
pnewton said:
Do yo have any evidence, even the smallest, that the Catholic Church supports this rather inflexible position?

Is it sloppy speech or just a* British* opinion that they should have some say over the way Americans speak?

Since I have provided the dictionary and you have shown nothing, I prefer to think this is the latter. I will await your documentation.
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I find it somewhat amusing that this ay-men /ah-men controversy was not an issue prior to Vatican II. It was just accepted that ah-men was required for Latin and it didn’t matter if you were speaking in English.

Starting in 1965, the priests and laity at English language masses just used the pronunciation of Amen that was used in common speech.
 
SMHW said:
I find it somewhat amusing that this ay-men /ah-men controversy was not an issue prior to Vatican II. It was just accepted that ah-men was required for Latin and it didn’t matter if you were speaking in English.

Starting in 1965, the priests and laity at English language masses just used the pronunciation of Amen that was used in common speech.
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I guess it would not have mattered before Mass was in the vernacular. In fact, there were no translation/grammar/pronounciation issues when all Mass was in Latin.
 
EasterJoy said:
How could it not be right? It is not charitable? Surely you would not hold someone’s Latin dialect against them? :D:D
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Amen is not really Latin. You can butcher, defy, mutilate, mispronounce Latin, but don’t touch Amen, Hosanna, Halleluia, or Sabboath. New rules. 🙂
 
You may as well say there is a Catholic and a Protestant way to hang toilet paper.
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No, but there is a “cat owner” way and a “not a cat owner” way. If I hang the t.p. wrong, my boys have it unrolled to the cardboard, scattered, chewed, and covered in kitty spit :eek: within an hour. Yes, I’ve tried closing the door, but the elder opens doors.

And their contribution on how to end a prayer: “meow,” which is the same in all four languages!
 
GwenL said:
No, but there is a “cat owner” way and a “not a cat owner” way. If I hang the t.p. wrong, my boys have it unrolled to the cardboard, scattered, chewed, and covered in kitty spit :eek: within an hour. Yes, I’ve tried closing the door, but the elder opens doors.

And their contribution on how to end a prayer: “meow,” which is the same in all four languages!
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Meow! I agree! (You only have to come home to that mess once to start hanging the TP the cat-owner way!)

For me, it’s always Ah-men, never Ey-men (I’ve been singing in the choir too long to say it any other way 🙂 ).
 
SMHW said:
I find it somewhat amusing that this ay-men /ah-men controversy was not an issue prior to Vatican II. It was just accepted that ah-men was required for Latin and it didn’t matter if you were speaking in English.

Starting in 1965, the priests and laity at English language masses just used the pronunciation of Amen that was used in common speech.
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pnewton said:
I guess it would not have mattered before Mass was in the vernacular. In fact, there were no translation/grammar/pronounciation issues when all Mass was in Latin.
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Not necessarily in the Mass itself, but there were, of course, public devotions in the vernacular. For the most part, I tend to agree with SMHW, as that seems to be how it went down.
 
bpbasilphx said:
The pronunciation in Greek, Slavonic, and Arabic is Ah-MEEN, accent on the second syllable, which is closer to the Hebrew pronunciation.
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Bishop Basil:

I believe the same is true in Aramaic. Last year, I participated in several Divine Liturgies in the Maronite Catholic Church a couple of miles from where I live, and they clearly pronounce (and transliterated) it as “A-mein” (accent on the second syllable) during the Canon (which is in Aramaic)…

In Christ, Michael
 
GwenL said:
No, but there is a “cat owner” way and a “not a cat owner” way. If I hang the t.p. wrong, my boys have it unrolled to the cardboard, scattered, chewed, and covered in kitty spit :eek: within an hour. Yes, I’ve tried closing the door, but the elder opens doors.

And their contribution on how to end a prayer: “meow,” which is the same in all four languages!
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Also the same for how to sing!
 
ProVobis said:
Amen is not really Latin. You can butcher, defy, mutilate, mispronounce Latin, but don’t touch Amen, Hosanna, Halleluia, or Sabboath. New rules. 🙂
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There is a standard Latin pronunciation, that is all I mean. As for Hebrew, a tour of the world’s synagogues will give you to know that it has its dialects, too.
 
EasterJoy said:
There is a standard Latin pronunciation, that is all I mean. As for Hebrew, a tour of the world’s synagogues will give you to know that it has its dialects, too.
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Actually Latin comes in classical style and the ecclesiastical style. I think it was Pius X who introduced the Italian pronounciations into the Latin language. Veni, vidi, vici was pronounced WHENEE WEEDEE WEEKEE by the Romans, VAYNEE VEEDEE VEECHEE by the Church. But I doubt if any priest who used the classical Latin style would be excommunicated today.🙂
 
GwenL said:
No, but there is a “cat owner” way and a “not a cat owner” way. If I hang the t.p. wrong, my boys have it unrolled to the cardboard, scattered, chewed, and covered in kitty spit :eek: within an hour. Yes, I’ve tried closing the door, but the elder opens doors.

And their contribution on how to end a prayer: “meow,” which is the same in all four languages!
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But not the same in French. Me-ah-ue (as in true)😃
 
ProVobis said:
Actually Latin comes in classical style and the ecclesiastical style. I think it was Pius X who introduced the Italian pronounciations into the Latin language. Veni, vidi, vici was pronounced WHENEE WEEDEE WEEKEE by the Romans, VAYNEE VEEDEE VEECHEE by the Church. But I doubt if any priest who used the classical Latin style would be excommunicated today.🙂
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St Pius X formalized the rules for pronunciation of Latin in choirs, but he didn’t “introduce the Italian pronounciations into the Latin language”. Pronouncing “V” as “W” was already on the way out in the Vulgar Latin of Apostolic times. Pronouncing “C” as “K” before “I” or “E” followed it out a few centuries later. Vulgar Latin became Church Latin and these pronunciations were commonly used for centuries before Pius X. Confusion only arose when speakers of non-Romance languages who had been first introduced to Latin through scientific, technical or legal language, which they pronounced according to the norms of their native language, then transferred these pronunciationsn to the Latin that they said/sung in Church. Leading to choirs composed of people singing different things. Hence Pius X’s rule standardising the pronunciation.
 
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