Ahasuerus, Vashti and Esther

[Jew_Man_73]

deb1:

In order for the above example to fit Esther, El Presidente has to be a ruthless dictator. Imagine Saddam Hussein kidnapping all the most beautiful young women of Iraq from their families and forcing them into his harem. Now all the young women are under threats of not only their lifes but the lifes of their families if they don’t go along with the sham marriages. Would these young women be guilty of adultry? Of course not.

Excellent point as well!

 

[Ghosty]

I just want to add that you guys haven’t lived until you’ve been to an Orthodox (Chasidic specfically) Jewish Purim celebration. The drinking, the dancing, the singing, the praying, and the hilarity at dedicated and conservative religious people harrasing a pious reader of Scripture in mid-speech. It’s wonderful!

A truly pious-yet-wild time. They give us Catholics a run for our money when it comes to drinking and dancing in celebration of Scripture

 

[chevalier]

She had no choice in the matter.

There was sort of a casting. It looks like making it was part of Mordekai’s plan.

As I’m sure you are aware, the Church isn’t ignorant of the story of Esther or of any other incident in the OT.

Of course, but for everything there’s an explanation and I’ve seen many of those. The general rules invoked in them don’t seem to be in perfect accord with this case.

You may want to consult an orthodox OT expert on the subject if it is truly bothering you to the point of losing your faith.

God can do nothing wrong. Question is, what God really did and what He wanted. I’m not an expert on that. What I’m doing is asking questions to find answers, arrive at some conclusion and find out about the explanation. There surely is some, but I need to seek if I want to find it and I want to. By the way, you people who have taken it on yourselves to reply are making good points and we’re getting closer to it, I believe.

You seem to be missing a vital point here–that men did not do as God would have liked them to do, they strayed from the truth, which is why Jesus corrected this practice.

So mosaic law contained within the OT was wrong and strayed from the truth? That some laws are the making of Moses and not God?

Now all the young women are under threats of not only their lifes but the lifes of their families if they don’t go along with the sham marriages. Would these young women be guilty of adultry? Of course not.

What if they sought to marry him in order to remit danger on their families?

 

[Jew_Man_73]

Ghosty:

I just want to add that you guys haven’t lived until you’ve been to an Orthodox (Chasidic specfically) Jewish Purim celebration. The drinking, the dancing, the singing, the praying, and the hilarity at dedicated and conservative religious people harrasing a pious reader of Scripture in mid-speech. It’s wonderful!

A truly pious-yet-wild time. They give us Catholics a run for our money when it comes to drinking and dancing in celebration of Scripture

Good point. The Purim celebration at my temple this year was really something. Every time the rabbi said the name “Haman”, everybody started booing and setting off noisemakers. The rabbi tried to maintain a serious demeanor, but ended up laughing anyway. At that point, he started saying “You Know Who.” Great food and drink too, and fun games.

 

[Ghosty]

At the local Chasidic Yeshiva’s Purim celebration, the rabbi was going NUTS! I whenever Haman’s name came up, he’d pound his feet and fists, almost knocking over the podium, and the roar from the crowd was deafening in the small room. The rabbi was also a brilliant reader, finishing the whole thing in under 20 minutes (more time for the after party!) and doing so in perfect cantillation. After the reading and prayers a live musician played Hebrew folk songs, Askenazic and Sephardic, and we danced for hours.

Before that I had gone to a secular/reformed Purim celebration, and while there was some drinking, eating, and booing, it wasn’t a very festive atmosphere. The Chasidim know how to whip themselves into a pious, spiritual fervor, though, and everyone was so joyful and praising God that it made the seculars look like sticks in the mud

 

[Jew_Man_73]

Ghosty:

At the local Chasidic Yeshiva’s Purim celebration, the rabbi was going NUTS! I whenever Haman’s name came up, he’d pound his feet and fists, almost knocking over the podium, and the roar from the crowd was deafening in the small room. The rabbi was also a brilliant reader, finishing the whole thing in under 20 minutes (more time for the after party!) and doing so in perfect cantillation. After the reading and prayers a live musician played Hebrew folk songs, Askenazic and Sephardic, and we danced for hours.

Before that I had gone to a secular/reformed Purim celebration, and while there was some drinking, eating, and booing, it wasn’t a very festive atmosphere. The Chasidim know how to whip themselves into a pious, spiritual fervor, though, and everyone was so joyful and praising God that it made the seculars look like sticks in the mud

Wow, that Chasidic rabbi did better than mine. It took him alot longer than 20 minutes to finish his sermon. (Although we were probably the cause of that. We wouldn’t shut up. ) I’m surprised that the Reform celebration was so subdued. Mine was crazy. Singing, dancing, even people getting drunk. (Of course, Purim is the one time of year that Jews are allowed to get drunk. The people at my temple take full advantage of that allowance. ) Anyway, it was fun. It was great to see an entire temple full of adults acting like kids.