Ahmadiyyah?

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Well, you kind of have to rely on Hadiths for some things. The Qur’an doesn’t say how to make salah, for example. Salah is one of the pillars to Islam, so it’s not negotiable. Another thing is Hajj; the Qur’an doesn’t give step-by-step instructions on how to perform Hajj. We go to Hadiths to know how to make salah and Hajj, respectively. Hadiths are not scripture, but they are pretty important.
 
Well, you kind of have to rely on Hadiths for some things. The Qur’an doesn’t say how to make salah, for example. Salah is one of the pillars to Islam, so it’s not negotiable. Another thing is Hajj; the Qur’an doesn’t give step-by-step instructions on how to perform Hajj. We go to Hadiths to know how to make salah and Hajj, respectively. Hadiths are not scripture, but they are pretty important.
quranalone.com/contact-prayer/, khidramari.wordpress.com/2012/05/06/the-true-shahadah-from-quran-alone/.
It looks like the Qu’ran Alone crowd not only has a different required number of contact prayers, but a different method of Shahada, as well. Would these " Qu’ranists" be accepted in Mecca, were they to try to perform Hajj?
 
Well, you kind of have to rely on Hadiths for some things. The Qur’an doesn’t say how to make salah, for example. Salah is one of the pillars to Islam, so it’s not negotiable. Another thing is Hajj; the Qur’an doesn’t give step-by-step instructions on how to perform Hajj. We go to Hadiths to know how to make salah and Hajj, respectively. Hadiths are not scripture, but they are pretty important.
Yes, in hadith these things are strictly defined. The concern I was responding to was the question, “how Quran-only can work for a Muslim since that book lacks any context or chronology.” In fact, the Quran-only whom I know do not believe Hajj or salah either one, need to be performed as per hadith. They believe in a liberal interpretation of salah, not even five times a day. And the ones I know do not seem to believe that hajj is obligatory. So it is not that the context is missing for those issues, but the issues themselves are non-issues, precisely because they do not accept hadith as reliable/obligatory. Their liberal interpretation allows for a loose construction of salah, for example, but that liberal interpretation is applied to the context in which salah is mentioned in the Quran. Another way to put it is that salah is a pillar, and is obligatory, but the timing and stages of salah are not as strictly laid out for Quran-only as they are for those who put hadith alongside of or even above Quran.
 
quranalone.com/contact-prayer/, khidramari.wordpress.com/2012/05/06/the-true-shahadah-from-quran-alone/.
It looks like the Qu’ran Alone crowd not only has a different required number of contact prayers, but a different method of Shahada, as well. Would these " Qu’ranists" be accepted in Mecca, were they to try to perform Hajj?
Thank you for the links. I’ll check them out. You asked a good question, but I don’t know if they’d be allowed in Mecca. I have no idea. 🤷
 
Thank you for the links. I’ll check them out. You asked a good question, but I don’t know if they’d be allowed in Mecca. I have no idea. 🤷
They can’t even go to Saudi Arabia officially (though, last quote, sometimes they do, and even make it to the Hajj).
Although there are many foreign workers and Saudi citizens belonging to the Ahmadiyya sect in Saudi Arabia, Ahmadis are officially banned from entering the country and from performing the pilgrimage to Mecca.
Although Ahmadi Muslims are not legally permitted to enter the city of Mecca, there are many Ahmadis who do so and perform Hajj, the Islamic pilgrimage to Mecca. Pakistan raises an additional barrier to performing Hajj. It requires that all Muslims applying for a passport must denigrate the founder of the community, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, and declare that all Ahmadis are non-Muslims.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmadiyya_in_Saudi_Arabia
 
Yeah, you also have “Quran-only” Muslims who do not rely on hadith at all. Those are found mainly in places like the US and UK.
Don’t forget the Ibadi Muslims. As I understand it they’re the tolerant Puritans of the Muslim world who also reject the notion that Muslims need a more central authority (such as caliphate or imam like Sunnis and Shias respectively).
 
And Ismailis… And Alawis… And Alavi… And Druze (another new religion influenced by Islam)
 
What is the difference between the Ahmadiyyah and other Muslims? Are they like the Baha’i, or are they a third branch of Islam, alongside the Sunni and Shi’a? I understand that they’re pretty unpopular in Pakistan and I was wondering why.
They’re a offshoot of the Shi’a. The Shi’a tend to be the more “sectarian” of the two major divisions–because they believe in divinely authorized leaders (whereas the Sunni locate authority in the consensus of the whole community) they tend to splinter over just who the leaders are. (Interestingly, this is the opposite of the Catholic/Protestant dynamic in Christianity, though one might argue that the Orthodox are actually the closer counterpart to the Sunnis.) The Shi’a group we hear about most is the “Twelvers,” who are the guys in Iraq and Iran. The Ismailis, unlike the Twelvers, think that they have a living imam (descendant of Muhammad and, in Ismaili philosophy, a reflection of the Divine light to the world–many Sunnis understandably find this idolatrous). The Shi’a believe strongly in the coming of the “Mahdi,” a messiah figure–Twelvers say that he’s the twelfth imam. Various people have claimed to be the Mahdi, and when their movements survived, they generally wind up moving away from mainstream Islam. The Ahmadis are one such group, as are the Bahais. But unlike the Bahais, the Ahmadis claim to be orthodox Muslims.

So if we take Sunni Islam as the base defining orthodoxy (which of course the Shi’a would object to in the first place, but Sunnis are the majority, so let’s start there), then the different groups I mentioned would be progressively farther away and recognized as Islamic by relatively fewer Sunnis:
Shi’a [the Twelvers and the smaller Zaydis or “Fivers”]–acknowledged as (odd) Muslims by most Sunnis except for the fundamentalist groups
Ismailis–more questionable in the eyes of many Sunnis
Ahmadis–rejected by many/most other Muslims but still claiming to be Muslims
Bahai–don’t claim to be Muslims themselves
 
Thank you for the links. I’ll check them out. You asked a good question, but I don’t know if they’d be allowed in Mecca. I have no idea
No, among many other persecutions, they are not allowed to perform pilgrimage to Mecca by the Wahabis who control access, a source of great and abiding sorrow to the Ahmadiyya, who are a most admirable and tolerant group of Muslims.
 
Love for all - hatred of none, is their saying.
I remember way back we had 2 Ahmadi muslims on here, their postings/replies were so much different than the Sunni/Shia reply’s.
Yes, their beliefs are extremely tolerant and pluralist-friendly.
 
They’re a offshoot of the Shi’a. The Shi’a tend to be the more “sectarian” of the two major divisions–because they believe in divinely authorized leaders (whereas the Sunni locate authority in the consensus of the whole community) they tend to splinter over just who the leaders are. (Interestingly, this is the opposite of the Catholic/Protestant dynamic in Christianity, though one might argue that the Orthodox are actually the closer counterpart to the Sunnis.) The Shi’a group we hear about most is the “Twelvers,” who are the guys in Iraq and Iran. The Ismailis, unlike the Twelvers, think that they have a living imam (descendant of Muhammad and, in Ismaili philosophy, a reflection of the Divine light to the world–many Sunnis understandably find this idolatrous). The Shi’a believe strongly in the coming of the “Mahdi,” a messiah figure–Twelvers say that he’s the twelfth imam. Various people have claimed to be the Mahdi, and when their movements survived, they generally wind up moving away from mainstream Islam. The Ahmadis are one such group, as are the Bahais. But unlike the Bahais, the Ahmadis claim to be orthodox Muslims.

So if we take Sunni Islam as the base defining orthodoxy (which of course the Shi’a would object to in the first place, but Sunnis are the majority, so let’s start there), then the different groups I mentioned would be progressively farther away and recognized as Islamic by relatively fewer Sunnis:
Shi’a [the Twelvers and the smaller Zaydis or “Fivers”]–acknowledged as (odd) Muslims by most Sunnis except for the fundamentalist groups
Ismailis–more questionable in the eyes of many Sunnis
Ahmadis–rejected by many/most other Muslims but still claiming to be Muslims
Bahai–don’t claim to be Muslims themselves
Where do the Ibadi fit in?
 
Ibadi Islam seems to be a lot more low- key than its larger sisters ( Sunni and Shi’i Islam) ibadiyya.souaiaia.com/.
When Ali was killed in 661 CE, the Umayyads came to power, and for a time some stability was imposed. By the time of the Second Civil War (688–692 CE), the principal quietist group, living mainly in Basra, had become known as the Ibadiyya. This name derives from Abdallah Ibn Ibad, who appears to have been the political mentor of the group, though its spiritual leader was Jabir Ibn Zayd, a man widely recognized for his learning and piety, who became the first imam of the group.

While Jabir was alive, the Ibadiyya were more or less tolerated by the central authorities. The community devised rules, which still hold, to enable them to survive among a non-Ibadi Muslim majority (qawm). Thus it is permitted to marry non-Ibadis and to enjoy mutual inheritance with them. Concealment (kitman) is also permitted, though not to the point of serving non-Ibadi rulers.

After the death of Jabir Ibn Zayd in 711 CE, the Ibadis found it more and more difficult to live in Basra, and their next two imams encouraged them to migrate to places where they could follow their own teachings without harassment. Most moved to the remote parts of the Arab world—Oman, Hadramawt, Yemen, and North Africa—although some also went to Khurasan. It was only in Oman and Waad Mzab valley that they survived in numbers, with a religious, legal, and political tradition going back unbroken to their earliest days in Basra.

In legal matters the Ibadis put more weight on the Qur’an and less on the Hadith than other branches of Islam. Thus, they do not impose the (non-Qur’anic) punishment of stoning for adultery, for example. The nature of their community has also led preserving Ijtihad. Unlike the Sunnis but like the Shi’is, they have never closed the gates of Ijtihad.* ibadism.ahmedsouaiaia.com/

I can’t speak for Muslims, but this lot seems to be more focused on individual study and personal spiritual exploration in an Islamic context: gotquestions.org/quietism.html,

Differences in doctrine with other Muslims:
Ibāḍīs have several doctrinal differences with other denominations of Islam, chief among them:

God will not show himself to Muslims on the Day of Judgment, a belief shared with Shi’ites. Sunnis believe that Muslims will see God on the Day of Judgment.[16]
The Quran was created by God at a certain point in time. This belief is shared with the Mutazila,[17] whereas Sunnīs hold the Quran to be co-eternal with God, as exemplified by the suffering of Ahmad ibn Hanbal during the miḥnah.[citation needed]
Like the Mutazila, they interpret anthropomorphic references to God in the Qur’an symbolically rather than literally.[17]
Their views on predestination are like the Ashari Sunnis (i.e. occasionalism).[17]
It is unnecessary to have one leader for the entire Muslim world, and if no single leader is fit for the job, Muslim communities can rule themselves.[9][11] That is different from both the Sunni belief of Caliphate and the Shi’ite belief of Imamah.[10][18][19]
It is not necessary for the ruler of the Muslims to be descended from the Quraysh tribe, which was the tribe of the Muslim prophet Muhammad.[10][11] That is different from both Shi’ites and Sunnis [20]
They believe it is acceptable to conceal one’s beliefs under certain circumstances (kitman), analogous to the Shia taqiyya.[17]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibadi#Doctrinal_differences_with_other_denominations, islam.uga.edu/ibadis.html, lesserknownreligions.wordpress.com/category/my-posts/the-religion-of-oman-ibadism/.

Hm. " General Islamic principles that Sunni, Shi’a and Ibadi alike agree upon." That sounds almost like an Islamic form of non- denominationalism.
 
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