AIDS in Africa

[blue_skies_1]

As a Catholic, sometimes I’m asked to defend the Church’s position on AIDS in Africa - people say the usual stuff about the Catholic teaching being dangerous… outdated, superstitious… they say it will cause higher levels of HIV. My defence is usually based on the common sense idea that abstinence and fidelity are the only 100% way to prevent the spread of AIDS, citing the success story of Uganda. But sometimes I’m asked, if that’s the case then why don’t we have a higher rate of HIV in countries like USA and UK, where promiscuity is pretty widespread? We (in the West) generally use condoms). Our HIV rate is far lower than in some parts of Africa where there is this epidemic. I’m confused by this, why is it?

Also, to top it off, i’m not even sure any more that the example of Uganda is all that good - yes, the HIV rate dropped a lot but I have been told - in fact this was written in an article in a British newspaper - that condoms, not the abstinence, were in fact the main tool in lowering the spread of AIDS. It’s so hard to be sure of the truth here. Can someone help?

 

[Squishy]

As a Catholic, sometimes I’m asked to defend the Church’s position on AIDS in Africa - people say the usual stuff about the Catholic teaching being dangerous… outdated, superstitious… they say it will cause higher levels of HIV. My defence is usually based on the common sense idea that abstinence and fidelity are the only 100% way to prevent the spread of AIDS, citing the success story of Uganda. But sometimes I’m asked, if that’s the case then why don’t we have a higher rate of HIV in countries like USA and UK, where promiscuity is pretty widespread? We (in the West) generally use condoms). Our HIV rate is far lower than in some parts of Africa where there is this epidemic. I’m confused by this, why is it?

Also, to top it off, i’m not even sure any more that the example of Uganda is all that good - yes, the HIV rate dropped a lot but I have been told - in fact this was written in an article in a British newspaper - that condoms, not the abstinence, were in fact the main tool in lowering the spread of AIDS. It’s so hard to be sure of the truth here. Can someone help?

As a none catholic this is one of my biggest problems with the church. Yes Abstinence is 100% effective. But this requires everyone to be 100% perfect, which they are not. A much better solution would be to teach everything in our power to reduce the spread of HIV and AIDS. Teach about the merits of Abstinence and fidelity which without argument are the most effective forms of prevention against STIs and unplanned pregnancys. But if people are not willing to abstain. They should have the education and knowledge that using condoms can reduce the chances of catching a STI.

When you are fighting a war you need to use all the weapons at your disposal. Using only the 1 that requires you to shoot a bulls eye every time or die, is a sure fire way to get a lot of people killed.

The Catholic church could do a lot against the spread of aids in Africa. Much more than any other organisation or charity. Not doing so in my opinion is a crime against humanity. And a lot of deaths can be layen at the feet of the church becuase of their teaching on the matter.

 

[NPC]

I don’t believe abstinence requires people to be perfect as Squishy says. Yes it requires discipline, but other issues come into play - a knowledge on the part of the infected person that they may pass on a deadly disease by having intercourse, a realisation that faithfulness to one partner is a better situation than having several short-term sexual relationships with persons whose sexual history one knows nothing about. I seems rather insulting to me, in fact, to assume that contraceptives are the only solution - as many people do - i.e. suggesting that infected persons cannot grasp the gravity of their situation and the situations they may be forcing upon others, and thus do the most responsible thing - abstain.

As far as I know - perhaps someone can confirm this - the Catholic Church is the single biggest contributer to the fight against AIDS in Africa - both in financial terms and in terms of care & education (hospitals, schools etc.).

Also, if the Church were to blame for the ever increasing epidemic because of it’s opposition to contraception, one would expect that it would be countries with a high Catholic population which have the highest AIDS rates - after all, non-Catholics would not have the same duty to abide by Church teaching. On the contrary, the statistics show that the countries with the highest rates of infection are generally one’s with small Catholic populations. I don’t have the statistics at the moment - though I have got examples which I will try to post at some stage.

I would also suggest that people who object to the Church’s response to AIDS do not do so merely out of concern for the wellbeing of those suffering with AIDS. It is likely that the problem is that the objector personally finds the Church’s teaching on contraception (and probably other teachings) hard to take, and are more concerned about their own sexual practices in light of the teaching. People are free to accept or reject the teaching of the Church, but the Church has a duty to guide it’s members and to uphold it’s teachings rather than bending them to suit present-day morality.

 

[Squishy]

I don’t believe abstinence requires people to be perfect as Squishy says. Yes it requires discipline, but other issues come into play - a knowledge on the part of the infected person that they may pass on a deadly disease by having intercourse, a realisation that faithfulness to one partner is a better situation than having several short-term sexual relationships with persons whose sexual history one knows nothing about. I seems rather insulting to me, in fact, to assume that contraceptives are the only solution - as many people do - i.e. suggesting that infected persons cannot grasp the gravity of their situation and the situations they may be forcing upon others, and thus do the most responsible thing - abstain.

Most people who have Aids and HIV pass them on without ever knowing they where infected. Its not a matter of them not grasping the severity. Its about them simply not knowing. In such situations one small laps failing to abstain just the once, has the potential to spread the dieses to another unknowing victum. Absteining is the best way to prevent it. If everyone absteins all the time. However they do not. So adding another layer of protection would be benificial.

As far as I know - perhaps someone can confirm this - the Catholic Church is the single biggest contributer to the fight against AIDS in Africa - both in financial terms and in terms of care & education (hospitals, schools etc.).

You do not need to confirm this. If its not true, it wont be fair off the biggest contributer. But that doesnt change the argument that the teaching on contraceptives IS spreading AIDS, at a faster rate than if they allowed their use.

Also, if the Church were to blame for the ever increasing epidemic because of it’s opposition to contraception, one would expect that it would be countries with a high Catholic population which have the highest AIDS rates - after all, non-Catholics would not have the same duty to abide by Church teaching. On the contrary, the statistics show that the countries with the highest rates of infection are generally one’s with small Catholic populations. I don’t have the statistics at the moment - though I have got examples which I will try to post at some stage.

I do not have these statistics to hand would you be able to link them please, i would like to take a look at them.

I would also suggest that people who object to the Church’s response to AIDS do not do so merely out of concern for the wellbeing of those suffering with AIDS. It is likely that the problem is that the objector personally finds the Church’s teaching on contraception (and probably other teachings) hard to take, and are more concerned about their own sexual practices in light of the teaching. People are free to accept or reject the teaching of the Church, but the Church has a duty to guide it’s members and to uphold it’s teachings rather than bending them to suit present-day morality.

I have issues with several teaching of the church. Contraceptives being one of them. But in my day to day life the church has little authority, so i really do not mind for me what it teaches. However its obvious that without condoms the spread of STIs is greater, for anyone who fails to abstein from sex. Than with those who use them.

I just do not understand why the church forbids the use of condoms, when they could save lives.

 

[nodito]

Most people who have Aids and HIV pass them on without ever knowing they where infected. Its not a matter of them not grasping the severity. Its about them simply not knowing. In such situations one small laps failing to abstain just the once, has the potential to spread the dieses to another unknowing victum. Absteining is the best way to prevent it. If everyone absteins all the time. However they do not. So adding another layer of protection would be benificial.

It is true, most people who spread the disease don’t know that they have it. In fact, studies have indictated that people actually reduce their risk-taking behavior (for example, reduce number of partners or stop having sex) when they learn of their positive status. This suggests that one of the most effective ways to prevent the spread of HIV is to do rapid HIV testing, so that people learn their status, and then explain to them how HIV is spread. Explain that abstinence is the only perfect way to prevent the spread of the disease. I prefer this approach to adopting an attitude of “any one may have it, therefore protect yourself when you have indiscriminate sex.”

As to the question of why the US and UK have lower prevalence rates of HIV, a lot of it also has to do with poverty. The spread of HIV in Africa is exacerbated by poverty, whereby many women and young girls participate in transactional sex in order to survive, mothers don’t have the money to take drugs to prevent mother-to-child transmission in utero, clean water isn’t available for formula to replace the breastfeeding by HIV+ women, and many people simply don’t realize that HIV is an incurable disease transmitted via sex. It also bears noting that poorer countries have more difficulty affording the drugs that treat HIV, thus, HIV+ individuals in African countries are more likely to die of HIV complications sooner than their American counterparts.

 

[Becks]

People want the Catholic Church to argue “you must abstain from fornication, BUT, if you don’t abstain from fornication, here’s how to fornicate more safely.” This is referred to as arguing in the alternative. The problem with arguing in the alternative is that by giving an alternative you seriously weaken your main argument. People think “If monogamy or abstinance was that important, then the Church wouldn’t tell me how I should have sex.”

Why do people assume that the Catholic Church has so much opportunity to affect the spread of HIV by supporting condoms when the Church has obviously been very ineffective in getting its message of monogamy/abstinence across. Nobody is listening to the Church about sexual morality, so why would you expect that anybody would start listening when the message changes?

 

[Mark77]

As a none catholic this is one of my biggest problems with the church. Yes Abstinence is 100% effective. But this requires everyone to be 100% perfect, which they are not. A much better solution would be to teach everything in our power to reduce the spread of HIV and AIDS. Teach about the merits of Abstinence and fidelity which without argument are the most effective forms of prevention against STIs and unplanned pregnancys. But if people are not willing to abstain. They should have the education and knowledge that using condoms can reduce the chances of catching a STI.

When you are fighting a war you need to use all the weapons at your disposal. Using only the 1 that requires you to shoot a bulls eye every time or die, is a sure fire way to get a lot of people killed.

The Catholic church could do a lot against the spread of aids in Africa. Much more than any other organisation or charity. Not doing so in my opinion is a crime against humanity. And a lot of deaths can be layen at the feet of the church becuase of their teaching on the matter.

Blaming the Church for AIDS deaths is so self-serving and ridiculous as usual.

There are many governments and secular agencies who are more than willing to provide condoms.

The Catholic Church was not created by Jesus to save lives, it was created to save souls for all eternity, there’s the rub!

So if we provide condoms and prevent AIDS in some cases, but by doing so, we help innocent women and children and men to damn their souls for all eternity, we are helping them???

So because many people will drink and drive and possibly kill innocent people, the Church should accept drunk driving, but give all drunks a “car condom” that will cover their cars, ensuring that innocent people are not killed???

Therefore, by your logic, it is the Church’s fault and the Pope is “autistic and out of touch with reality” because he wont buy “car condoms” for all of the world’s drunk drivers???

Whatever happened to personal responsibility? We always blame someone else for our stupidity, greed, selfishness and arrogance. SAD!

President Obama just authorized US tax dollars to be used for abortions in foreign countries, yet few are screaming about the 1 BILLION murdered worldwide by abortion or the 50 MILLION murdered in the US alone!

Because we want to have sex for self-gratification, even if innocent people might die, doesn’t mean that the Church is wrong? Maybe we are wrong, but it is so easy to blame the Church, why stop now?

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

Mark

 

[GodLovesTheSpek]

Pray for the Africans that are ravaged by AIDS. Make a holy hour. We know The Truth. All we have to do is live it.

I read these worldly-centric arguments for the use of contraceptions, even today I read a CNN commentary, the lay husband of a minister who, basically, agreed with the pope and the teachings, BUT (always that word) opined in the “real world” we should do something else and use the contraceptions anyway. In effect, live a lie.

Another clever tactic by The Liar. If only we would believe The Lie can we solve the problem. No faith in the faith?

All the more reason not to use contraceptions. God makes the final judgement and faith will lead to His Kingdom. What ultimately happens to the AIDS victims is His will not ours. Follow The Truth and you will never go wrong. Follow The Liar and join him in Hell. For eternity.

 

[AveSantaMaria]

Sadly, the HIV/AIDS rate in D.C. is as high as the HIV/AIDS rate in several countries in subSaharan Africa. If we can’t solve HIV/AIDS in the United States, how do we know that we know anything about solving HIV/AIDS in Africa?

H.I.V. in D.C. Reaches Crisis Rate forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=321431

 

[Squishy]

Blaming the Church for AIDS deaths is so self-serving and ridiculous as usual.

I do not blame the church for AIDS deaths, but blame can be laid at their feet for not properly educating people. Which does result in AIDS deaths.

There are many governments and secular agencies who are more than willing to provide condoms.

In many rural parts of Africa the local clergy are the only source of education and aid that these people recieve. If the priest is telling people that its immoral to use condoms, they will not ever have access to them. Which means that if they do fall from being perfect they have no other protection against HIV.

The Catholic Church was not created by Jesus to save lives, it was created to save souls for all eternity, there’s the rub!

Its this argument that is the cause of more death and destruction than any other ‘philisophical’ ideas.

So if we provide condoms and prevent AIDS in some cases, but by doing so, we help innocent women and children and men to damn their souls for all eternity, we are helping them???

No one is perfect. We are all sinners as it where. What you are doing is giving the people who do sin, at leaste a chance at not being punished in this life for it. The church is about forgiving mans sins.

So because many people will drink and drive and possibly kill innocent people, the Church should accept drunk driving, but give all drunks a “car condom” that will cover their cars, ensuring that innocent people are not killed???

Therefore, by your logic, it is the Church’s fault and the Pope is “autistic and out of touch with reality” because he wont buy “car condoms” for all of the world’s drunk drivers???

If you cannot see the difference between condoms to prevent the spread of a deadly diesess and the example you just posted you… I have nothing very charitable to say.

Whatever happened to personal responsibility? We always blame someone else for our stupidity, greed, selfishness and arrogance. SAD!

If you do not educate people who rely on you for guidence and help. Then yes you are to blame for their stupidity. But the worste thing is, who is to blame for them being human? With human flaws and weaknesses?

President Obama just authorized US tax dollars to be used for abortions in foreign countries, yet few are screaming about the 1 BILLION murdered worldwide by abortion or the 50 MILLION murdered in the US alone!

Nothing to do with the argument at hand.

Because we want to have sex for self-gratification, even if innocent people might die, doesn’t mean that the Church is wrong? Maybe we are wrong, but it is so easy to blame the Church, why stop now?

We are designed to take pleasure from having sex. But thats not the argument. The argument is its very easy to make a mistake and have sex with someone. Its very easy to not follow catholic teaching in the heat of the moment and a fit of passion. Its a lot more difficult to premedtate such a thing and carry a condom just in case.

Its catholic people who are suffering most with the ban on condoms. People who are not catholic will have no problem with carrying them around with them. But a catholic who fails to abstein in the heat of the moment runs a very large risk of catching a STI.