Aisha bint Abu Bakr

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BornInMarch

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Recently I was talking with some people about Islam, and one of the people I spoke with claimed Muhammad was a pedophile.

The person didn’t give any explanation, so I assumed he was probably just parroting something a pundit said or otherwise was being racist (i.e. assuming that all Arabs were pedophiles).

To confirm that the person was wrong, I looked up Muhammad’s Wives to be sure. Then I found that one of them was Aisha bint Abu Bakr.

Wikipedia states: “Traditional sources state that she stayed in her parents’ home until the age of nine when the marriage was consummated with Muhammad, then 53, in Medina, with the single exception of al-Tabari, who records that she was ten.”

Wiki Islam, a form of Wikipedia operated by Muslims, states: “She was the daughter of Muhammad’s best friend and head evangelist Abu Bakr. Muhammad selected the six-year-old Aisha in preference to her teenaged sister, and she remained his favourite wife. She contributed a major body of information to Islamic law and history. The paedophilic aspect of this relationship has institutionalised such marriages within Islam.”

So my question to Muslims is, how do you explain this?
In pretty much the entire world today pedophilia (an adult having sex with a pre-pubescent child such as a 9 year old) is considered one of the most heinous and unforgivable crimes someone can commit, so why would God give revelations to one? Does “consummating a marriage” mean something different in the Muslim World than it does in the Western World? Is someone just spreading misinformation? Or did a founder of a major religion really have sex with a 9 year old?

To be clear, I only want answers from MUSLIMS (or from people who have had a conversation with Muslims on this topic) All the other times I made posts asking about Islam, I got a lot of answers from Christians. In one thread I started asking how non-christian religions viewed Jesus, lots of Christians harassed the non-Christians. I don’t want that to happen here; only reply if your a Muslim, if you’ve talked to a Muslim on this, or if you intend to cite your sources.
 
I’m not a Muslim but I have spoken with Muslims. Muslims have told me that Aisha could have been between 9-12, perhaps a little older. Now something to keep in mind that during those times child marriage did occur. Adult male Jews, Christians, Muslims, Polytheists…all had what today could be considered as a child wife. Look at Solomon and David who reportedly had hundreds of wives. In terms of marriages…one can note similarities between the lives of Solomon, David, and Muhammad. Even go back to the mid 20th century USA, look at Loretta Lynn the famous country music artist…She was between 14-16 when she got married. We now live in a time where child marriage is frowned upon, even by many Muslims, Jews, and Christians.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loretta_Lynn#Early_adulthood
jewfaq.org/marriage.htm
jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Solomon.html
jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/David.html

The minimum age for marriage under Jewish law is 13 for boys, 12 for girls; however, the kiddushin can take place before that, and often did in medieval times. The Talmud recommends that a man marry at age 18, or somewhere between 16 and 24.

jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/marriage.html

There is a lot of criticism on marriage age in Islam. Some allege that Muslim marriage law allows marriage of minors. However, Quran indicates at least on one place that there is definite age which can be termed as age of marriage:

“Make trial of orphans until they reach the age of marriage; if then ye find sound judgment in them, release their property to them; but consume it not wastefully, nor in haste against their growing up.”

(Quran 4: 6 Abdullah Yusufali)

The Muslim jurists agree that the ‘age of marriage’ mentioned here is age of puberty. Shafis alone declare that age of 15 years should be taken as age of marriage. Other branches of Islam don’t give any specific age but agree that age of marriage can be different in different regions depending upon the age of puberty. Furthermore, consent of a Muslim marriage partner is not recognized unless she reaches to the age of puberty.

muslim-marriage-guide.com/marriage-age.html

I would like to know whether there is a set age for marriage in Islam for men and women? I hope you can explain with reference to the Qur’aan and saheeh hadeeths.
Published Date: 2011-07-10
Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly:

Islam does not give a specific age for marriage, either for the husband or for the wife. Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And for such of your women as despair of menstruation, if ye doubt, their period (of waiting) shall be three months, along with those who have it not”

[al-Talaaq 65:4].

Al-Sa‘di (may Allah have mercy on him) said: “along with those who have it [menses] not” means minors, those who have not yet started to menstruate. Adult women who have never menstruated at all are like those who “despair of menstruation” (i.e., have passed menopause); their ‘iddah is three months. End quote.

Tafseer al-Sa‘di, p. 870

The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) married ‘Aa’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her) when she was six years old and the marriage was consummated when she was nine years old. Narrated by al-Bukhaari (4840) and Muslim (1422).
islamqa.info/en/146882
 
Here is the age of marriage in some of the modern day Muslim majority countries ,

Male 18, Female 16-Pakistan, Egypt,

Both 18- Morocco, Turkey, Iraq.

Male 21, Female 18- Algeria, Bangladesh

Male 15, Female 13 Iran

Male 16, Female 16 Jordan

Male 18, Female 14 Afghanistan,

muslim-marriage-guide.com/marriage-age.html
 
I’ve noticed that there are some contradictions about her age. Whatever her age was, it was very young by today’s standards. In Shariah, a person is considered an adult as soon as they reach puberty. Regardless, I believe that God had Muhammad [peace be upon him] marry Aisha [may Allah be pleased with her] because of what was yet to come. God’s providence was such that she became one of the most influential muslims of her generation. She narrated thousands of hadiths (hadiths are oral traditions that were passed down by the companions and family members of Muhammad). As his wife, she was able to give us insight into Muhammad’s lifestyle that few others could match. She narrated the second most hadiths of any of the Sahaba (only behind Abu Huraira [may Allah be pleased with him]).

Without Aisha, Islam would not be nearly as complete as it is today. It was common back then to be married young because of infant mortality. Having miscarriages was very common because their health care was extremely primitive by today’s standards. Nowadays we’re very blessed to have trained doctors and various machines that help a baby survive if it has a problem. Muhammad’s first wife, Khadija, had several of her children die due to health reasons.

Had Muhammad waited a few more years to marry Aisha, she wouldn’t have been able have had much of an impact on the muslim community because she wouldn’t have been able to narrate so many hadiths about Muhammad. Aisha was no ordinary woman; she is considered one of the mothers of the believers (as surah 33:6 states). We look up to her as a motherly figure. I love her more than my birth mother (which is no small feat).

To be brutally honest, it kind of bothers me that Muhammad married such a young girl :sad_yes:. Still, it was for the reason of bringing Islam into a more complete form. Islam would not be where it is today if Aisha had been 18 or so before getting married. Had this marriage have been for sexual reasons, believe me, Muhammad’s enemies would have capitalized on this and would’ve accused him of sexual immorality. They didn’t, though.
 
Sensitive topic for Muslims.

In my interactions with them, nobody has claimed she was older than 9 when the marriage was consumated. However, i have been told that in that era, female girls were much more developed than they are now at that young age.

Do not know if it’s true or not but that’s the explanation given.
 
A girl of nine does not have a mature enough body or emotional make up to marry no matter what culture, century, upbringing or time period. This is just wrong. She is not equipped to handle married life and all it entails.
 
Lenten_ashes said:
Sensitive topic for Muslims.

In my interactions with them, nobody has claimed she was older than 9 when the marriage was consumated. However, i have been told that in that era, female girls were much more developed than they are now at that young age.

Do not know if it’s true or not but that’s the explanation given.
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I’ve heard that too from islamic apologists, but those apologists are simply wrong.

Ofcourse girls weren’t more developed 1400 years ago. Anyone who claims that has no idea about the speed (or slowness) of evolution. Also, the hadiths (specifically: those of Bukhari, generally considered among the most reliable) explicitly mention the age of Aisha. Furthermore, it’s well known that it’s very hard to outlaw child marriage in islamic countries, such as Pakistan and Yemen. That’s because of Muhammed’s marriage with Aisha. If it’s wrong to marry a six year old and have sex with her when she’s nine, then Muhammed was also wrong to marry and have sex with Aisha. And that is something muslims in those countries can’t or won’t admit - and those that do often face charges for blasphemy and apostasy.
 
This is a tough one. I kind of see both sides to it.

I mean, if Mohamed’s general culture was accepting of pedophilia, how could he have known it was wrong?

A lot of societies married young including the ancient Romans.

It was a different time and culture. We are viewing it through a modern lens, but this was seventh century Arabia, not the modern U.S.

Every society is different, really. I understand that we recoil in horror to think of a man marrying someone that young.

A lot of Indians probably recoil in horror at the thought of one of us eating a hamburger. (Since cows are considered sacred over there)

I know we’re not supposed to be moral relativists but that seems to be my general view of it, take it or leave it. 🙂
 
Alex_H said:
This is a tough one. I kind of see both sides to it.

I mean, if Mohamed’s general culture was accepting of pedophilia, how could he have known it was wrong?

A lot of societies married young including the ancient Romans.

It was a different time and culture. We are viewing it through a modern lens, but this was seventh century Arabia, not the modern U.S.

Every society is different, really. I understand that we recoil in horror to think of a man marrying someone that young.

A lot of Indians probably recoil in horror at the thought of one of us eating a hamburger. (Since cows are considered sacred over there)

I know we’re not supposed to be moral relativists but that seems to be my general view of it, take it or leave it. 🙂
Click to expand...
I’m inclined to agree with this view. While we may find it abhorrent from a 21st century Western perspective. It wasn’t necessarily out of the ordinary for their time and location (be she 9 or 12 at the time). Nor were they they only society or time in history that this practice we consider abhorrent was considered typical. Nor as you mention the only practice we consider abhorrent, that was then normal (or vice versa).

We can still think it is and indeed was wrong for the marriage to have occurred to someone so young, while still acknowledging that the region and time’s mores were different than our own.
 
Cheiron said:
I’ve heard that too from islamic apologists, but those apologists are simply wrong.

Ofcourse girls weren’t more developed 1400 years ago. Anyone who claims that has no idea about the speed (or slowness) of evolution. Also, the hadiths (specifically: those of Bukhari, generally considered among the most reliable) explicitly mention the age of Aisha. Furthermore, it’s well known that it’s very hard to outlaw child marriage in islamic countries, such as Pakistan and Yemen. That’s because of Muhammed’s marriage with Aisha. If it’s wrong to marry a six year old and have sex with her when she’s nine, then Muhammed was also wrong to marry and have sex with Aisha. And that is something muslims in those countries can’t or won’t admit - and those that do often face charges for blasphemy and apostasy.
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Yeah, I’m not buying it either, tbh. I’d need to see some concrete evidence of this for it to have any merit.

And the fact that Muhammed was dreaming about Aisha when she was so young creeped me out as well.

I’ve asked Muslims, if you had a six year old daughter and some 50 year old guy claiming to be a prophet came up to you and said God gave me this dream and I am to wed your daughter now, how would you react? And the few i talked to said they would gladly hand their 6 year old over to the “prophet” :eek:

I seriously do not mean to offend Muslims as the ones I have interacted with are good, God fearing people. But I just can not understand the taking of child brides. Not now, not ever,
 
In England the first legal statute in the 13th century set the age of consent at 12
 
Alex_H said:
This is a tough one. I kind of see both sides to it.

I mean, if Mohamed’s general culture was accepting of pedophilia, how could he have known it was wrong?

A lot of societies married young including the ancient Romans.

It was a different time and culture. We are viewing it through a modern lens, but this was seventh century Arabia, not the modern U.S.

Every society is different, really. I understand that we recoil in horror to think of a man marrying someone that young.

A lot of Indians probably recoil in horror at the thought of one of us eating a hamburger. (Since cows are considered sacred over there)

I know we’re not supposed to be moral relativists but that seems to be my general view of it, take it or leave it. 🙂
Click to expand...
I agree that it was the culture and practices of that era for the Arab tribe. What I am struggling with, as a God sent prophet, that he did not correct it and set a radical change as Jesus often did.
 
I should clarify something; Aisha being 12 years old is a BIG difference than Aisha being 9 years old.

If she was a 12 year old, then she’d technically be a teenager and would be able to get pregnant.
Heck, some 12 year olds are sexually active on their own (in fact the United States has Romeo and Juliet laws which make it legal for people below the age of consent to have sex … when it’s with other people below the age of consent [for example, a 12 year old can’t be charged with statutory rape if he sleeps with a 10 year old]).

If she was 9, then she would look like a child and would be unable to get pregnant. The difference between 9 and 12 is the difference between child-rape and statutory rape. While statutory Rape is a bad crime, it is significantly less horrific than outright child-molestation.
 
Alex_H said:
This is a tough one. I kind of see both sides to it.

I mean, if Mohamed’s general culture was accepting of pedophilia, how could he have known it was wrong?

A lot of societies married young including the ancient Romans.

It was a different time and culture. We are viewing it through a modern lens, but this was seventh century Arabia, not the modern U.S.

Every society is different, really. I understand that we recoil in horror to think of a man marrying someone that young.

A lot of Indians probably recoil in horror at the thought of one of us eating a hamburger. (Since cows are considered sacred over there)

I know we’re not supposed to be moral relativists but that seems to be my general view of it, take it or leave it. 🙂
Click to expand...
Morals aren’t subjective or human constructs; they come from instinctual empathy.

When you see something bad happening to another person, you cringe a little inside. That’s because your brain is running a fast simulation of how it would feel for you if it happened to you. Because of that, you know some things are right or wrong without being told so.

Whether these instincts were created by God or by evolution (or by latter being planned by the former), it’s undeniable that they’re there.

For example, you wouldn’t want to be murdered so you don’t do it to others.
 
drac16 said:
I’ve noticed that there are some contradictions about her age. Whatever her age was, it was very young by today’s standards. In Shariah, a person is considered an adult as soon as they reach puberty. Regardless, I believe that God had Muhammad [peace be upon him] marry Aisha [may Allah be pleased with her] because of what was yet to come. God’s providence was such that she became one of the most influential muslims of her generation. She narrated thousands of hadiths (hadiths are oral traditions that were passed down by the companions and family members of Muhammad). As his wife, she was able to give us insight into Muhammad’s lifestyle that few others could match. She narrated the second most hadiths of any of the Sahaba (only behind Abu Huraira [may Allah be pleased with him]).

Without Aisha, Islam would not be nearly as complete as it is today. It was common back then to be married young because of infant mortality. Having miscarriages was very common because their health care was extremely primitive by today’s standards. Nowadays we’re very blessed to have trained doctors and various machines that help a baby survive if it has a problem. Muhammad’s first wife, Khadija, had several of her children die due to health reasons.

Had Muhammad waited a few more years to marry Aisha, she wouldn’t have been able have had much of an impact on the muslim community because she wouldn’t have been able to narrate so many hadiths about Muhammad. Aisha was no ordinary woman; she is considered one of the mothers of the believers (as surah 33:6 states). We look up to her as a motherly figure. I love her more than my birth mother (which is no small feat).

To be brutally honest, it kind of bothers me that Muhammad married such a young girl :sad_yes:. Still, it was for the reason of bringing Islam into a more complete form. Islam would not be where it is today if Aisha had been 18 or so before getting married. Had this marriage have been for sexual reasons, believe me, Muhammad’s enemies would have capitalized on this and would’ve accused him of sexual immorality. They didn’t, though.
Click to expand...
Even if marrying her was necessary, he could have waited before consummating it and had her live in his house in the meantime.
 
Padres1969 said:
I’m inclined to agree with this view. While we may find it abhorrent from a 21st century Western perspective. It wasn’t necessarily out of the ordinary for their time and location (be she 9 or 12 at the time). Nor were they they only society or time in history that this practice we consider abhorrent was considered typical. Nor as you mention the only practice we consider abhorrent, that was then normal (or vice versa).

We can still think it is and indeed was wrong for the marriage to have occurred to someone so young, while still acknowledging that the region and time’s mores were different than our own.
Click to expand...
That’s not how morals work. Some things you know are wrong without being told, because of your instincts.

That’s why you cringe when you see bad things happen to others. Your brain is simulating what it would feel like if those things happened to you, and concluding that that is bad.

Additionally, there were people back then expressing moral beliefs common today. Socrates criticized the “might makes right” outlook on life, while Tacitus and Plato condemned the Ancient Greek practice of molesting young boys.
 
BornInMarch said:
**That’s not how morals work. Some things you know are wrong without being told, because of your instincts. **

That’s why you cringe when you see bad things happen to others. Your brain is simulating what it would feel like if those things happened to you, and concluding that that is bad.

Additionally, there were people back then expressing moral beliefs common today. Socrates criticized the “might makes right” outlook on life, while Tacitus and Plato condemned the Ancient Greek practice of molesting young boys.
Click to expand...
And as the prevailing society of the day did not see those things as immoral at the time, their instincts which were formed by being raised in that society wouldn’t have told them they were immoral. Morals of a society do influence the individual, and in their society 1400 years ago there would have been nothing telling them such a thing was not moral. You’re again viewing it from a Christian moral and Western moral view. Our society and our religions all teach that such a thing is incredibly immoral. So of course we can’t fathom a society or time that taught something completely different. And yet, it was so.
 
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