Alas, Abortion

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Doctors try hard to save mother and baby. Seems obvious to me. Maybe the prognosis was wrong.
And it seems in this case, where the mother’s condition had rendered her too weak to move her to the OR, that there was no outcome that involved both her and the child surviving.
Sure, the doctors could have assumed they were wrong and started from square one.
 
What if the mother is caring for 3 or 4 other children? What good would be achieved by depriving them of their mother?
Keep in mind, we are not talking about the doctor’s depriving those children of their mother. We are talking about a mother being willing to let God decide. A mother who chooses to not kill her baby, even at the cost of her own life (even assuming the child did not survive) is a woman who undoubtedly has great faith. I would like to think that such a mother will be able to do her children much greater good, praying for them in heaven than any of us can achieve on Earth.

In addition, I think this particular viewpoint is a rather slippery slope. I can see your same argument being made, even if is likely that the child will survive but the mother will not.
I fully agree with the Church’s views on abortion, incidentally, as I am an adoptee myself.
But one wonders… how one would react when faced by a terrible ethical dilemma that is a non-win situation. How could anybody here claim to be able to react with a clear rational head devoid of any emotional baggage? It’s all highly theoretical until you have to walk in those shoes. Fortunately I have never had to.
I agree the decision is never easy. A mother who makes the decision not to abort even though she knows she might die is uniting her self to Christ’s crucifixion in a very special way. Fortunately, the Church provides a clear teaching on this issue so knowing what the right thing to do is, should be easy. Now, making that decision is something that will require great faith, courage and grace from God. Certainly a mother who chooses to abort in a situation like that should be treated with the greatest of compassion and hopefully will be reunited with the Church.


Bill
 
Out of control plane, for certain going to crash, is going to kill 1000’s on the ground if no action is taken and is within our power to shoot down-

In both cases- We can kill the doomed innocents to save other, or we can allow these things to play themselves out and end up with more dead people then there would have been otherwise.

I fail to see the major problem with the analogy, albeit this is the latest version so you may be responding to a prior analogy.
Of course, that plane is going to ‘for certain’ crash and kill thousands :yup:

Just like all those mothers I mentioned earlier. They all ‘for certain’ were going to die if they didn’t terminate their pregnancies, if you recall. Yet when push came to shove and they refused to terminate, somehow they ended up defying the expert predictions and NOT dying. 🤷

Scientists, like doctors, are hardly endowed with godlike infallibility in their predictions of future outcomes.
 
When I read some of the comments on this thread, I truly wonder whether there is a mischievous intent by some to try and create a scenario or a analogous moral paradigm to that of abortion (ie. Killing innocents) in order to meet a prescribed outcome which is really nothing more than moral relativism designed to confound and undermine the Church’s authority on the issue of abortion.

Lets be very straight about the issue of abortion. (Putting aside for a moment other moral analogies particularly about planes and towers)

In NO circumstances is the termination of a child’s life in a mothers womb morally tolerated or acceptable, regardless of the danger to a mothers life.

Although reason cannot contradict Faith , it can be twisted to engineer to fit a person’s own prejudice.

Further, there is no analogy to abortion.

The gift of Life growing in the womb of a mother is unique and sacred.

Peace

Rob.
 
Of course, that plane is going to ‘for certain’ crash and kill thousands :yup:

Just like all those mothers I mentioned earlier. They all ‘for certain’ were going to die if they didn’t terminate their pregnancies, if you recall. Yet when push came to shove and they refused to terminate, somehow they ended up defying the expert predictions and NOT dying. 🤷

Scientists, like doctors, are hardly endowed with godlike infallibility in their predictions of future outcomes.
Of course there are exceptions- a doctor can never honestly say “this WILL happen for sure.” People have survived everything from a 6 mile fall (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesna_Vulović) to a rail road spike through the head (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage)--) but they know what they’re talking about and to decide ‘well they might be wrong’ is foolish, unless you have profound evidence on your side.
 

Keep in mind, we are not talking about the doctor’s depriving those children of their mother. We are talking about a mother being willing to let God decide.​

Bill
Do we ‘let God decide’ the outcome of cancer, heart attacks, or strokes?
 
Do we ‘let God decide’ the outcome of cancer, heart attacks, or strokes?
Always, we let God decide. Of course.

We can seek/find treatment, effective or not.
We can do nothing and accept death.

We do NOT grab strangers (or family) off the street
and store them in ICUs to provide potentially-needed organs,
killing these donors as “needed” to “save” the sick.
 
What if the mother is caring for 3 or 4 other children? What good would be achieved by depriving them of their mother?

I fully agree with the Church’s views on abortion, incidentally, as I am an adoptee myself.

But one wonders… how one would react when faced by a terrible ethical dilemma that is a non-win situation. How could anybody here claim to be able to react with a clear rational head devoid of any emotional baggage? It’s all highly theoretical until you have to walk in those shoes. Fortunately I have never had to.
St. Gianna Beretta Molla had three other children when she decided that her life was not worth more than that of her unborn child’s. saintgianna.org/ Seems like many can learn a lot from her. 😉
 
Observe, respect, obey the will of God.
All win. Really so simple.
I suppose I wasn’t being clear- what, specifically, would have been a better course of action then the one taken in the series of events on which this thread is based?
 
Always, we let God decide. Of course.
Really now? Then what exactly does it mean to let God decide whether or nor we survive an illness?
We can seek/find treatment, effective or not.
We can do nothing and accept death.
We do NOT grab strangers (or family) off the street
and store them in ICUs to provide potentially-needed organs,
killing these donors as “needed” to “save” the sick.
This is killing someone unrelated to the event, not killing someone who is directly causing the ailment, albeit unintentionally.
 
I suppose I wasn’t being clear- what, specifically, would have been a better course of action then the one taken in the series of events on which this thread is based?
Already suggested in two other forums (NEWS threads):

Turn patient back to her treatment physician for immediate transfer out of Catholic site.
Bring in pulmonologist with OB creds at once. He/she could even suggest via phone.
OR
Prepare patient/family for possible/probable imminent death.
Assemble family.
Bring in pastoral care staff.
 
already suggested in two other forums (news threads):

Turn patient back to her treatment physician for immediate transfer out of catholic site.
Bring in pulmonologist with ob creds at once. He/she could even suggest via phone.
Or
prepare patient/family for possible/probable imminent death.
Assemble family.
Bring in pastoral care staff.
and petition for lord’s grace and mercy in prayer
 
Already suggested in two other forums (NEWS threads):

Turn patient back to her treatment physician for immediate transfer out of Catholic site.
Bring in pulmonologist with OB creds at once. He/she could even suggest via phone.
OR
Prepare patient/family for possible/probable imminent death.
Assemble family.
Bring in pastoral care staff.
So the ‘win’ situation(s) was/were- A- throw a hail mary and hope that the doctors were missing something or B- Call it quits. Tough luck!
 
So the ‘win’ situation(s) was/were- A- throw a hail mary and hope that the doctors were missing something or B- Call it quits. Tough luck!
Each of us will die.
Each of us must be prepared for it.
Would I kill my child to save myself? No.
Would you?
 
Each of us will die.
Each of us must be prepared for it.
Would I kill my child to save myself? No.
Would you?
If I was trapped in a sinking car and the rescue guys (or whatever they’re called) could only save one of us? I believe not. If I were in that woman’s exact situation? I believe I would have taken the same course of action.
 
If I was trapped in a sinking car and the rescue guys (or whatever they’re called) could only save one of us? I believe not. If I were in that woman’s exact situation? I believe I would have taken the same course of action.
So your child is not your child until
you can see it
you can hear it
you can hold it
you can play with it
you can feed it … ?

Is that it?
 
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