Alcohol and Precious Blood

[otjm]

Substance and accidents, substance and forms, and essences and existence are all philosophical terms of long and ancient usage, and they are terms which can cause a bit of angst and confusion to those who have not studied any metaphysics (a branch of philosophy).

It is perhaps not for no reason that we have, over the centuries had Eucharistic miracles, such as the Host partially turning from the accident of wheat to heart muscle, and the accident of wine to liquid blood.

John 6 is a fascinating chapter. It is the only time in which Christ spoke, not in parables, but in a direct challenge (“Eat my flesh”) and the only time where those who were confused by his statement did not receive an explanation of his statement. In fact, reading the chapter shows Christ making a greater and greater statement, ending with “eat my flesh” and a number of those listening, leaving him. He did not call them back, he did not try to “explain” the statement; in fact, he turned to the Apostles and said “will you leave me too?”

Clearly, he was making a profound pronouncement.

And through history, we have had people who hear this statement, and leave. Those who heard Christ make the statement were not the only ones who have had trouble believing it.

Substance is defined as what exists per se, and is not inherent in a subject. The change of the substance of wheat to the substance of Christ is not something observed; what is observed is the accidents, those things inherent in the matter.

So, for example, when the wine is consecrated, it becomes the blood of Christ, and on rare occasions, one finds actual blood in the chalice, and not the accidents of wine. And for the multitudes who receive from the chalice, we believe, as Christ noted in speaking with Thomas ("Blessed are those who have not seen, and believe).

And if it becomes a struggle, repeat the prayer: “Lord, I believe. Help my unbelief.”

 

[otjm]

You wouldn’t run any chemical analysis on the blood of Christ. The process would be sacrilege.
But the alcohol content of the wine would also be the alcohol content remaining in the accidents of the Precious Blood of Christ.

’

That is not entirely correct. There have been Eucharistic miracles; a Host turning from the accident of wheat to heart muscle; and the accident of wine turning into blood; and both have had chemical analyses performed on them, with the permission of the Church.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

That is not entirely correct. There have been Eucharistic miracles; a Host turning from the accident of wheat to heart muscle; and the accident of wine turning into blood; and both have had chemical analyses performed on them, with the permission of the Church.

I did not mean the purported Eucharistic Miracles. I was referring to running alcoholic analysis of the Precious Blood consumed during Mass.

I would imagine running tests on purported miracles to be strictly controlled though. Mike Willasee organised did a few tests during his documentaries. He became converted.

From a scientific view point, one still has to wonder what chemical analysis can prove though. Apart from yes, it’s blood or muscle.

 

[otjm]

I did not mean the purported Eucharistic Miracles. I was referring to running alcoholic analysis of the Precious Blood consumed during Mass.

I would imagine running tests on purported miracles to be strictly controlled though. Mike Willasee organised did a few tests during his documentaries. He became converted.

From a scientific view point, one still has to wonder what chemical analysis can prove though. Apart from yes, it’s blood or muscle.

from what I understand, quite a bit.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

from what I understand, quite a bit.

How can a positive analysis for DNA type, blood type, specific muscle group or distress of that group be linked to the supernatural, in an affirmative way.

How does the Vatican reconcile this.

Serious question if anyone knows.

 

[zab]

The accidents of wine REMAIN after the consecration. That includes all of what we perceive to be the physical properties of wine including alcoholic content.

The substance is changed into the blood of Christ. The accidents of wine remain.
There is no chemical test which could reveal the change, because chemical tests deal with the accidents of things, not the substance.

 

[johnnykins]

In an OLD thread from 2006 Br. Rich SFO said “There is only the Blood of Christ in the Chalice after Consecration. There is no wine or alcohol. However, the Blood of Christ has the same accidents, look, feel, taste and properties of wine, including alcoholic properties.”

In another post where he was answering someone who said there IS alcohol in the Precious Blood he replied, “Depending on just how much a person would drink, they would have alcohol circulating in their blood.
But not12% if they did they would be killed by it. So, NO there is no alcohol in the Blood of Christ. It does have alcoholic properties consistant with the accidents of wine.”

My question is how can this be?

God works in mysterious ways.

How can a child be born without sexual relations…certainly 2000 years ago - whatever science may do now?
How can the dead be raised?
How can the sick and blind be miraculously cured - without medicine 2000 years ago?
How can just a few loaves and fishes feed hundreds?
How can bread become the Body of Christ?
How can a sacrifice be the same at different times, in different places and all in a different manner…yet be the same?
How can one ascend to Heaven as if in a cloud…certainly 2000 years ago?
How can God come upon us as a Spirit?

All the explanations given…all the references to substance and accidents, to Aristotle and Aquinas, etc., all boil down to trying to explain a miracle. To give it some measure of understanding on a human level. But, in the final analysis…it’s the power of God. You believe it, or you don’t.