Alcohol at church functions

[4elise]

I wonder one thing, and it would probably apply to alcohol at church functions as well as things like inviting friends over for dinner and serving drinks.
If a person goes to a church function, has too much to drink there, then causes an accident driving home, is the church liable? I know that if a bartender serves an intoxicated person and they then have an accident, the bartender can be liable. However, the bartenders go through training in this sort of thing. Does it make a difference if you have a cash bar staffed by a caterer or professional bartender vs. drinks served by church members? What is the responsibility of a church member serving alcohol to asses whether someone has too much to drink, or to verify that someone is of age? How much exposure to lawsuits does a church have?

ETA…I’m not opposed to alcohol at church functions as a matter of morality, and don’t think that drinking is sinful. I enjoy alcohol in moderation myself.

I do think that the Church would have liability in the event someone drank too much and then - with the knowledge of those in attendance and those serving alcohol drove home impaired - causing an accident. As I’ve said it is our KoC that is always in charge of this at our parish - and I would have to believe they are aware of this liability and take the necessary precautions - some of those guys are - I believe - in law enforcement - so they do keep a close eye on things. I think that this would be important for the Church to have people that they knew they could trust to oversee this as we do.

I also agree on the young people observing the moderate use of alcohol to be a good thing - and obviously if someone were to be attending and being immoderate in the presence of young people, I would hope someone would step in, take them home to remove them from the setting.

I think someone said something about the individual cultures of a community should dictate how this is done and given good leadership I would agree.

Some having had personal experiences, want to save others from the terrible cost that excessive drinking, (ie by a group of chaperones!), impact on families and of course drunk driving, causes - and I completely understand how strongly people can feel about this ---- There is a lot of alcoholism in my family - alcoholism is very different from people having a social drink as a community, or even the occasional immoderate individual. I pray that those impacted by this terrible burden are able to turn to our loving Lord for healing and peace.

 

[rwillenborg]

I can certainly appreciate anyone’s hesitancy to allow alcohol at a church function.
It does seem…odd.
Then again, Jesus could choose to appear under ANY form…and he chose wine.
I have to remember that.
Our church holds an annual wine tasting and it’s a big fundraiser, and frankly, I would rather my hard-earned money and my rare night out without the kids be spent at the church, rather than the bar.
Spirits (the liquid not the gaseous kind) have always been a part of my family life, in a good way. We’re a food and drink kind of family. So, serving wine and beer with meals is standard and at family game night there’s always beer. Special occasions are marked with champagne and as a kid my FAVORITE was the ‘champagne’ we got - sparkling white grape juice. To this day, it’s still one of my favorite things to drink!
So, naturally, I couldn’t ever find myself in a church that was opposed to such a thing.

 

[Catholic90]

I would never have alcohol at my kids birthday, for example…its just a respect thing, your not going there for you, your going there for a child (or church, or God depending on the function) and you need to put your issues aside to BE THERE for that. When your under the influence of alcohol, your physically present, but not ALL THERE.

Would you serve alcohol at your FAMILY party for your child’s birthday? (ie. when gramma, grampa, uncles, aunts, and cousins are invited).

 

[AHapka]

no as long as local law is followed (no serving to minors),

Of course, unless you live in a state where you can give your own children alchohol. I let mine have a sip from time to time. Better to teach responsible use, then him learning in the back of someone’s farm.

 

[AHapka]

I’m gonna say HECK NO! just out of respect!! I mean, cm’on…

Even as, just a regular everyday sinner lmbo…I would never have alcohol at my kids birthday, for example…its just a respect thing, your not going there for you,

How do you mean out of respect? Where is it disrespecting? Please define what you mean, I don’t understand.

 

[Marfran]

OK guys.

Here is the thread…

Is it wrong to serve alcohol at church functions?
If so, why? If not, why?

I don’t like alcohol at Church functions where children are present. I think that parents can show chidren what moderate alcohol consumption looks like in their own homes. Why can’t adults forgo the wine, beer, etc. for the brief time that they are at Church/parish function?

Most people on this thread are saying that they drink responsibly and ***why not ***in front of the kids??? My point (from another thread) is what about the closet alcoholic (the one that no one knows has a problem), or the one person who has a little too much (maybe unintentionally), or the one who visibly seems fine but has an accident on the way home.

There was something on TV the other night–cops giving breathilizer (don’t know how to spell that one) tests to people. Some people were obviously drunk, others did not ***seem ***impaired but failed the tests none the less…

I know someone who had too much to drink at a parish event and got in an accident and his wife died as a result of that accident. Alcohol and alcoholism cause a lot of damage in our society. All you have to do is turn on the news or open the paper–every day there will be at least one alcohol related accident or story–usually several.

Alcohol is everywhere–but why should it be at the parish event??? What is the point of drinking it??? To get a buzz, a high, whatever??? If you say no, I don’t drink enough to feel anything, I just like the taste…then why not have non-alcoholic beverages at parish events?

I was once told by a priest that alcohol at parish events gets people to be freer with their money. Seems a shame that you have to serve Catholics alcohol to get them to be generous.

So why can’t we just have good, clean fun at parish events??? Even if you do not have issues with alcohol and feel you handle it responsibly, what about that one person at the parish event who doesn’t??? Is it just HIS problem, HIS/HER family’s problem??? Should we not concern ourselves about how alcohol causes issues for others???

I don’t know if it’s WRONG to serve alcohol at a Church event, I just think we can DO BETTER. If it’s NOT THERE, no one stumbles, and if YOU drink responsibly, you can easily do that everywhere else, any time.

 

[vz71]

I don’t like alcohol at Church functions where children are present. I think that parents can show chidren what moderate alcohol consumption looks like in their own homes. Why can’t adults forgo the wine, beer, etc. for the brief time that they are at Church/parish function?

But why should they?
If there are lessons to be taught, why should the lesson be reserved for the home?
It is a far better lesson out in the open.

Most people on this thread are saying that they drink responsibly and ***why not ***in front of the kids??? My point (from another thread) is what about the closet alcoholic (the one that no one knows has a problem), or the one person who has a little too much (maybe unintentionally), or the one who visibly seems fine but has an accident on the way home.

We cannot accept responsibility for what we cannot know.
But beyond that is personal responsibility.

There was something on TV the other night–cops giving breathilizer (don’t know how to spell that one) tests to people. Some people were obviously drunk, others did not ***seem ***impaired but failed the tests none the less…

This speaks to personal responsibility again.
One should know their limits and not exceed those.

I know someone who had too much to drink at a parish event and got in an accident and his wife died as a result of that accident. Alcohol and alcoholism cause a lot of damage in our society. All you have to do is turn on the news or open the paper–every day there will be at least one alcohol related accident or story–usually several.

These are tragedies, but they do not mean that a ban on alcohol at a church function should be instituted.

Alcohol is everywhere–but why should it be at the parish event???

Why not?

What is the point of drinking it???

That would be a question for each individual. But off hand I would say to enjoy the beverage.

To get a buzz, a high, whatever???

Some do. I do not.

If you say no, I don’t drink enough to feel anything, I just like the taste…then why not have non-alcoholic beverages at parish events?

There is no substitute for the taste of alcohol.

I was once told by a priest that alcohol at parish events gets people to be freer with their money. Seems a shame that you have to serve Catholics alcohol to get them to be generous.

Not to get them to be generous, to get them to be MORE generous.
And what is the problem with that? The wedding at Cana told us about the wine served at their church function. It also gave us details that can lead us to believe it was rather strong wine.

So why can’t we just have good, clean fun at parish events???

Who says good clean fun cannot include alcohol?

Even if you do not have issues with alcohol and feel you handle it responsibly, what about that one person at the parish event who doesn’t???
Is it just HIS problem, HIS/HER family’s problem??? Should we not concern ourselves about how alcohol causes issues for others???

We should, but the answer is not banning alcohol at church events.

I don’t know if it’s WRONG to serve alcohol at a Church event, I just think we can DO BETTER. If it’s NOT THERE, no one stumbles, and if YOU drink responsibly, you can easily do that everywhere else, any time.

We cannot live our lives based on perceived weaknesses of others.
That would lead us to scrupulosity.

 

[AHapka]

Even if you do not have issues with alcohol and feel you handle it responsibly, what about that one person at the parish event who doesn’t??? .

By that same concept, we could include every sin.

What about men (and I’m one of them) who have had problems with lust from time to time? Should we thus require women to wear burquas (sp?) so that I am not tempted to sin?

No, my own sin is my problem. I can ask for help, just as the alcoholic can (family member/accountability partner coming with).

 

[kage_ar]

Has there ever been an accident at your Parish where someone was DUI after a Parish function? I cannot remember that I have ever heard of one…

 

[vz71]

Has there ever been an accident at your Parish where someone was DUI after a Parish function? I cannot remember that I have ever heard of one…

Other then my example above, I have never seen anyone overindulge at a church function.

 

[Marfran]

Other then my example above, I have never seen anyone overindulge at a church function.

Well I have, and my kids saw it too.

 

[vz71]

Well I have, and my kids saw it too.

So is the majority going to be dictated to based upon the actions of a minority?

Keep in mind that God himself started it.

 

[Marfran]

By that same concept, we could include every sin.

What about men (and I’m one of them) who have had problems with lust from time to time? Should we thus require women to wear burquas (sp?) so that I am not tempted to sin?

No, my own sin is my problem. I can ask for help, just as the alcoholic can (family member/accountability partner coming with).

This is a completely different situation. Having a problem with LUST hurts the individual (and maybe his marriage) in a personal way, but no one is going to DIE or be physically injured in that scenario.

I think it is advisible that women dress modestly for their own dignity. If one has a problem with lust, I am sure that that can be a personal struggle, but again does lusting and driviving bring HARM to other, innocent individuals???

Alcohol abuse/addiction is a HUGE societal problem. It goes beyond PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY. Those of us who are responsible can not ignore the ones who ARE NOT, or who have problems with abuse and addiction. (And people don’t always wear this on their sleeves–we will never know all the people who struggle with these issues.)

ONE can say that I AM RESPONSIBLE, but how does one feel when you turn on the news and hear of another alcohol related fatality??? This IS a devasting, and huge problem within our society.

 

[Marfran]

So is the majority going to be dictated to based upon the actions of a minority?

Keep in mind that God himself started it.

The minority??? Watch the news. Every single local newscast will mention alcohol, as related to or suspected in the involvement in an accident. Open your local paper. I challenge you to find ONE edition that does not mention alcohol abuse/intoxication/DUI etc.

God started what??? Intoxication??? DUI??? When did God ever slur his speech??? Alcohol has a huge propensity for abuse/misuse. It’s not just an individual PROBLEM, it is a ***societal problem ***that affects us all, whether or not we are individually responsible with our own behavior or not.

I approach this topic with concern for the harm brought to society, and ***how to minimize the harm to our society. ***The parishes are microcosms of the larger society in which we live. Alcoholism and addictions afflict Church and parish members just as they afflict members of the larger society. Personal responsibility does not protect society, it only concerns an individual’s conduct.

 

[vz71]

The minority??? Watch the news. Every single local newscast will mention alcohol, as related to or suspected in the involvement in an accident. Open your local paper. I challenge you to find ONE edition that does not mention alcohol abuse/intoxication/DUI etc.

This is by design. The news is not built based on the normal happenings.
If every incident reported were the norm, it would not be newsworthy enough to report on.
Do you remember the quote…“Dog bites man isn’t news, but man bites dog is.”
Or perhaps “If it bleeds, it leads.”

God started what???

Started serving alcoholic beverages at church functions.
It was his first miracle.

Alcohol has a huge propensity for abuse/misuse. It’s not just an individual PROBLEM, it is a ***societal problem ***that affects us all, whether or not we are individually responsible with our own behavior or not.

True, but we can only be responsible for ourselves, not others.

I approach this topic with concern for the harm brought to society, and ***how to minimize the harm to our society. ***

You cannot make a society safer by restricting its freedoms.
You only end up with a less free society that is just as safe as before.
A ban on alcohol at church functions seems to be a sledge hammer approach when the precision of a scalpel would be better applied.

 

[AHapka]

Alcohol abuse/addiction is a HUGE societal problem. It goes beyond PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY. Those of us who are responsible can not ignore the ones who ARE NOT, or who have problems with abuse and addiction. (And people don’t always wear this on their sleeves–we will never know all the people who struggle with these issues.)

True, and I am not arguing that it isn’t. However, I don’t see how not having alcohol at church functions would prevent it.

I am my brothers keeper, so I will give him a ride home (or arrange alternate transportation). Then someone won’t die. And judging by most church functions I’ve been at, if someone is having too much then either the servers or other parishoners will take action. I have never seen anyone allowed to get to the point of real intoxication.

The earlier point I was trying to make is that there are many occassions of sin at church functions. What about food? A glutton could certainly shorten his/her life by eating too much. Without serving food we could avoid that occasion of sin.

 

[Marfran]

True, but we can only be responsible for ourselves, not others.

And we should only care about our own behavior? I think alcoholism is a disease. Not making an excuse for alcoholics–but they do have difficulties in managing their disease and in behaving responsibly.

You cannot make a society safer by restricting its freedoms.
You only end up with a less free society that is just as safe as before.
A ban on alcohol at church functions seems to be a sledge hammer approach when the precision of a scalpel would be better applied.

I am not suggesting banning alcohol from society in general. I just think that we can set an example by NOT INCLUDING it at our parish functions. Why does everybody HAVE to HAVE it so bad, anyway??? If you can have it at home, in the bar, at a party, WHY can’t you do without it at a Church function??? I think it would be nice to go someplace where it wasn’t present–show young people that adults do not NEED it to have a good, enjoyable time.

 

[AHapka]

I just think that we can set an example by NOT INCLUDING it at our parish functions. Why does everybody HAVE to HAVE it so bad, anyway??? If you can have it at home, in the bar, at a party, WHY can’t you do without it at a Church function??? I think it would be nice to go someplace where it wasn’t present–show young people that adults do not NEED it to have a good, enjoyable time.

What kind of “example?” Why don’t we use the example of our Lord, who turned water into wine for a celebration (of a Sacrament, no less)?

Our Lord was accused many times of being a drunkard and hanging out with drunkards. But yet he stayed with, and did not rebuke, those who drink.

Let’s look at the example Jesus set: He didn’t have a problem with drinking, and even went to the point of providing more wine through His first miracle when they ran out. I think the example of our Lord is the one we should be emulating.

 

[aspawloski4th]

And we should only care about our own behavior? I think alcoholism is a disease. Not making an excuse for alcoholics–but they do have difficulties in managing their disease and in behaving responsibly.

I am not suggesting banning alcohol from society in general. I just think that we can set an example by NOT INCLUDING it at our parish functions. Why does everybody HAVE to HAVE it so bad, anyway??? If you can have it at home, in the bar, at a party, WHY can’t you do without it at a Church function??? I think it would be nice to go someplace where it wasn’t present–show young people that adults do not NEED it to have a good, enjoyable time.

Well its tradition at Irish and German parishes. Just wondering is there anything traditional that you like?

 

[stringbeanduck]

Our church often has alcohol at it’s functions and lots of it. Everything from beer to wine to jack. There’s nothing wrong with it so long as everybody respects the virtue of temperance.