Alcohol in your family

[Harpazo]

Glory to Jesus Christ!

After having read about the “Amethyst Initiative” in the paper over the past few weeks, I am still not entirely convinced that lowering the legal drinking age to 18 would be the best thing alone to do. Let’s face it, many 18 year olds are completely foolish with the law as it stands now, proving their maturity with their binge drinking on college campuses.

I am of the opinion that the age should be lowered to 18, but the person that wants to buy and consume alcohol should take a class (similar to Driver’s Ed.) along with a parent/guardian. Once said person passes the class, they and their parent/guardian can both be held accountable should the person do something stupid and reckless with their new found freedom. Once they turn 21, then the parent/guardian can no longer be responsible for the actions of their child. That’s just my opinion, I doubt that would fly with many legislators.

My other questions (as per the topic) have to do with alcohol in your family. How do you treat it? Do you allow your children to have it at a certain age under strict supervision? Did you raise them with having it at family events? Is it a major part of your culture? Do you not have alcohol in your house at all?

I have a friend who is from Singapore and he said at age 15 kids are allowed to have alcohol in the presence of an adult and obviously in moderation. At 18 they can legally drink by themselves without an adult around. Many countries that have relaxed drinking laws do not have a problem with alcoholism because the children are taught to respect it from an early age. Obviously, there will be a few exceptional cases, as there are everywhere.

In my father’s side of the family, including my cousins, all the kids grew up respecting alcohol, occasionally having wine with dinner or a beer at a holiday or family gathering. None of them got drunk and turned into alcoholics because we were taught to respect it. Granted, we’re Italian, but even so. Just because we are, does not mean that other peoples can’t grow up to respect it as well.

What say you?

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[lizaanne]

I think that this is a massive cultural change that goes so very deep into the foundation of how our children are raised and how the entertainment media and society condition them, that it would take more than one generation to end up with children who suddenly respect alcohol the way you suggest they do in other countries. Sadly - I don’t know that the interim period of having kids learn the hard way would be worth it.

My husband is from England and we have discussed this subject many times. He is generally aghast at how immature most teens are here, and how they are babied until their early 20s. This isn’t necessarily bad parenting, it’s just different parenting, but the result is a very different culture from what is seen elsewhere in the world.

I was allowed to sample alcohol as a young child as well. It gave me an appreciation for and a recognition of different types of beverages. When it came time for me to legally drink, it was a non-event for me. For my friends who had never been allowed to even look at it until they were 21, it was usually disastrous.

But you do have to admit that it is difficult to tell someone that they are old enough to die for their country and carry a deadly weapon, but they are not old enough for a beer at the end of a long day of putting their life on the line.

No easy answers here I’m afraid.

~Liza

 

[Harpazo]

I think that this is a massive cultural change that goes so very deep into the foundation of how our children are raised and how the entertainment media and society condition them, that it would take more than one generation to end up with children who suddenly respect alcohol the way you suggest they do in other countries. Sadly - I don’t know that the interim period of having kids learn the hard way would be worth it.

My husband is from England and we have discussed this subject many times. He is generally aghast at how immature most teens are here, and how they are babied until their early 20s. This isn’t necessarily bad parenting, it’s just different parenting, but the result is a very different culture from what is seen elsewhere in the world.

I was allowed to sample alcohol as a young child as well. It gave me an appreciation for and a recognition of different types of beverages. When it came time for me to legally drink, it was a non-event for me. For my friends who had never been allowed to even look at it until they were 21, it was usually disastrous.

**But you do have to admit that it is difficult to tell someone that they are old enough to die for their country and carry a deadly weapon, but they are not old enough for a beer at the end of a long day of putting their life on the line. **

No easy answers here I’m afraid.

~Liza

I especially agree with that last part.

What does everyone else think?

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[DL82]

I’m Scottish, and we can legally drink at 18. I can’t understand the American obsession with the evils of alcohol, I guess it goes back to puritanism and prohibition. I remember seeing a report recently that there are still some Southern states in the USA that have ‘dry counties’ where you can’t buy alcohol at all!

One big difference between teenage drinking here and in America is that we can do it legally, University campuses all have bars, and these are focal points for social life. Like any other commercial bar, the bar staff have a duty of care for the customers. This is far better than closed frat houses and unsupervised house parties where people drink until they pass out. At the same time, it does mean that we tend to meet most of our friends through drinking, instead of through sports or other clubs and events.

Of course, Scotland has problems with drinking, but it always had - traditionally, the countries of Northern Europe used alcohol as anaesthetic against the cold, rather than for entertainment, and that’s still a part of the culture here and in places like Poland and Scandinavia. I don’t think that has anything to do with the drinking age, but with bad parenting, bad role models and deeper social problems. In places like France and Spain the legal age is 16 or even younger, and people drink much more responsibly than the Americans or the Scots.

 

[armywife]

Lower the drinking age, raise the driving age.

I was allowed to have wine or a beer with dinner from the time I was 17. Also, being a military wife I feel ridiculous when we have my husbands soldiers over for dinner and can’t offer them a beer after a year-long deployment in Iraq.

If parents taught the responsibility of alcohol then I don’t think there would be so many problems. My roommate who had never seen her parents drink or have any alcohol in her house binged every single weekend to the point of not remembering what had happened. I would have a drink or two, but saw no point in getting drunk.

The age restriction was brought on by force from the federal gov’t through withholding funding for roads if states did not pass the new age limit. I remember my brother being able to drink at home and not at college because of different laws in each state.

 

[cthulhubryan]

I grew up in and around Houston, TX. The drinking age in Texas was 19. Or you could drive across the border to Louisiana where the drinking age was “can you see over the bar”

Sure, we did dumb stuff. Sure we could drink at 17 at certain places (Beer and Wine, no hard stuff) but then by the time we were 19 it was no longer a thrill because it was legal. The average consumption of alcohol by my friends and I probably peaked somewhere between 17-18. By the time we went off to college being able to drink was almost passe. Sure, drinking the hard stuff was fun, but the normal kid gets blasted a time or two and the thrill is gone.

I think lower the drinking age and enforcing the heck out of the lower age are the way to go.

 

[Cat]

I hope I can share this without getting attacked. Perhaps it will help the OP to understand a different group of people.

I’m from a family of teetotalers. Only a few people in the family drank, and they died young of alcohol-related diseases. Sometimes I think the teetotaling is some kind of primitive instinct that we all have to protect us from alcohol, which seems to be death to us.

I can’t understand why anyone drinks alcohol. I don’t need a chemical or drug to be happy or relaxed. I have lots of fun without it.

And I hate talking to or being with people who are drinking. They get so silly and goofy. I want to be with people who are in total possession of their faculties. (Exceptions would be the elderly or those with some kind of injury to the brain or with Alzheimer’s or some other syndrome that affects brain function.)

I don’t trust alcohol. Everyone always insists that they will never be adversely affected by it, but so many people end up in drunk driving accidents, or date-raped, or destroying their marriage and family, or dead of cirrhosis, or arrested for disorderly conduct, or sitting in a 12-step group trying to recover from full-blown alcoholism. I don’t see why anyone would want to take a chance on these things happening to them.

My two daughters drink socially now that they’re grown, and I pray that they won’t end up dead like the other members of our family who took a drink. They didn’t go hog-wild when they turned 21, so I still maintain that raising kids in totally alcohol-free homes is a good way to raise kids.

As for drinking age, who cares? People in the U.S. do what they want to do with alcohol regardless of the law. Parents give their children alcohol. And almost everyone, even sensible people, drives after drinking. It doesn’t matter what the law is. I just want the right to go after the monster who kills someone I love while driving drunk. I’ve lost an aunt and uncle to a filthy drunk driver, who is still alive. That’s not right.

But I don’t think the driving age should be raised. My daughters were working at age 16, and I couldn’t drive them to their jobs because I was working, too. A lot of teenagers are perfectly capable of driving safely at 16 or younger. A lot of adults are NOT capable of driving safely, but in the U.S., taking a licence away doesn’t matter. We need cars to do almost everything here in the U.S. There is no tram or train or L or underground (except in very large cities), and the weather doesn’t permit biking in the Northern states, and if you do bike, there are no separate lanes and you are taking a chance on getting killed by a reckless driver. And most people can’t walk many many miles to work or school, especially in harsh Northern weather. Without a car in the U.S., you can’t do anything.

 

[Harpazo]

I hope I can share this without getting attacked. Perhaps it will help the OP to understand a different group of people.

I’m from a family of teetotalers. Only a few people in the family drank, and they died young of alcohol-related diseases. Sometimes I think the teetotaling is some kind of primitive instinct that we all have to protect us from alcohol, which seems to be death to us.

I can’t understand why anyone drinks alcohol. I don’t need a chemical or drug to be happy or relaxed. I have lots of fun without it.

And I hate talking to or being with people who are drinking. They get so silly and goofy. I want to be with people who are in total possession of their faculties. (Exceptions would be the elderly or those with some kind of injury to the brain or with Alzheimer’s or some other syndrome that affects brain function.)

I don’t trust alcohol. Everyone always insists that they will never be adversely affected by it, but so many people end up in drunk driving accidents, or date-raped, or destroying their marriage and family, or dead of cirrhosis, or arrested for disorderly conduct, or sitting in a 12-step group trying to recover from full-blown alcoholism. I don’t see why anyone would want to take a chance on these things happening to them.

My two daughters drink socially now that they’re grown, and I pray that they won’t end up dead like the other members of our family who took a drink. They didn’t go hog-wild when they turned 21, so I still maintain that raising kids in totally alcohol-free homes is a good way to raise kids.

As for drinking age, who cares? People in the U.S. do what they want to do with alcohol regardless of the law. Parents give their children alcohol. And almost everyone, even sensible people, drives after drinking. It doesn’t matter what the law is. I just want the right to go after the monster who kills someone I love while driving drunk. I’ve lost an aunt and uncle to a filthy drunk driver, who is still alive. That’s not right.

But I don’t think the driving age should be raised. My daughters were working at age 16, and I couldn’t drive them to their jobs because I was working, too. A lot of teenagers are perfectly capable of driving safely at 16 or younger. A lot of adults are NOT capable of driving safely, but in the U.S., taking a licence away doesn’t matter. We need cars to do almost everything here in the U.S. There is no tram or train or L or underground (except in very large cities), and the weather doesn’t permit biking in the Northern states, and if you do bike, there are no separate lanes and you are taking a chance on getting killed by a reckless driver. And most people can’t walk many many miles to work or school, especially in harsh Northern weather. Without a car in the U.S., you can’t do anything.

Hi Cat,

I certainly understand your concerns and I am grateful that you offered us a fresh perspective on this thread.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[sanctamaria17]

If we’re not adult enough for alcohol, we’re not adult enough for guns, military service, voting, maximum prison sentences or anything else. Plain and simple. We’re either minors or we’re not. Pick one.

I’m an Italian American girl. We don’t drink for the drug effect, we drink in my culture because it goes with the food, it tastes good, it’s about the skill of the people making it, and because it’s social, the same as many people drink coffee. We believe in moderation and that’s what people teach their children. Many of my friends of similar backgrounds said the first time they were drunk was at a wedding or something where their parents could keep an eye on them and they were able to learn their limits much earlier. I’m seeing someone of Spanish descent and it was the same for him. We both learned to be responsible with alcohol because of it.

I think that if people should commit a crime when drunk, they should be punished harshly for endangering others. If they get caught drunk driving, they should lose their license. If they date-rape someone, they should get punished harshly for that too. I think we, as legal adults, should have ALL the rights of being such, but we should also be punished severely if we should misuse them…Hey, our government trusts us with GUNS! If they trust us with weapons, why can’t they trust us with a sangria in a restaurant?

 

[Harpazo]

Thanks for all the feedback everyone! It’s been great!

I am still also wondering for those that are parents: do you allow your children to have alcoholic beverages in your presence so as to teach them respect and moderation for it?

For those parents to be: if you were raised with a respect for alcohol, will you raise your children the same? Why or why not?

Keep up the discussion!

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[ack]

I’m not convinced – in England, the drinking age is 18 in pubs and younger at home, but you still see the same kind of ridiculous behavior that you see from Americans when they turn 21.

Go to any foreign country where backpackers congregate and look at which youth are getting drunk and making fools out of themselves…it’s always the Americans and the Brits in equal proportions (sometimes some Australians too.)

Look at this story of the amusing antics that happened when they banned alcohol on the Tube in London:

Six London Underground stations were closed as trouble flared when thousands of people marked the banning of alcohol on London transport with a party.
Four tube drivers, three other staff members, and two police officers were assaulted, and there were 17 arrests.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/7429638.stm

I don’t think age has anything to do with it…

 

[stringbeanduck]

I come from a long line of family drinkers, being Polish and Catholic it’s only normal. Most were non-alcohalics, but could really put em’ away at times. I drink a bit sometimes on occasion in the house or at some family celebration, but I sure don’t use it solve problems. I think the legal drinking age is fine where it’s at; if anything make an exception for military personal.

 

[DL82]

I forgot the main difference between Europe and America in my last post:

You guys all drive big cars and shoot big guns. Combining that with alcohol is a BAD idea.

 

[Jay82]

I’m an Italian American girl. We don’t drink for the drug effect, we drink in my culture because it goes with the food, it tastes good, it’s about the skill of the people making it, and because it’s social, the same as many people drink coffee. We believe in moderation and that’s what people teach their children. Many of my friends of similar backgrounds said the first time they were drunk was at a wedding or something where their parents could keep an eye on them and they were able to learn their limits much earlier.

I had similar experiences with alcohol. I am also an Italian American although I never had a drink until I turned 21 (that was tough to hold out)…and my first drink happened to be a glass of red wine with dinner at a family party. Growing up and observing my parents and extended family drink for the reasons sanctamaria spoke of (paired with food, taste, and appreciate of different wineries/breweries, etc) helped show me that alochol is not meant for binge drinking or mass consumption, but rather moderation and should be appreciated. Turning 21 was a ‘non-event’ for me and seeing college students consume ‘insane’ amounts of alcohol for the sake of drinking/getting drunk has always seemed pointless to me.

Regardless of whether parents have an alcohol free household or not, I think kids need to be exposed to some people that consume alcohol responsibily as they grow up so they don’t go off to college completely sheltered and more suceptible to making poor choices because their (irresponsible) peers shape their views of alcohol consumption.

 

[Rose71]

I started being allowed to have a very small glass of wine at the table from 12 years old and helped make home-made wines from an even younger age. I did get drunk a few times at college, but the effect of my parents’ attitude towards drink is that I will only have a drink of wine because I like the taste and it goes with the food I am eating. I never drink to ‘numb the pain’ so to speak!

I am aware this aproach does not suit every family and so much is down to peer pressure, but I do think that the attitude of some people, who almost demonize drink and make it seem a big deal are being counter-productive and giving their children something to rebel against.

I think being stupid while young and drunk is a phase most people grow out of - but the tragedy is those who don’t and go on to become alcohol-dependent adults who use alcohol to get them through the day i.e. as an emotional crutch. Legal age-limits on drinking aren’t the answer here. I don’t believe people become addicts because of alcohol (if that makes sense!) They do it because of factors in their lives they feel powerless to cope with, perhaps an abusive spouse; a cold family; chronic shyness etc. If they weren’t drinking, the likelihood is that they would end up addicts of some other substance or behaviour.

I have never known a happy alcoholic (and I’ve known a few) It is an awful thing and perhaps that has also shaped my view of drinking. I never want to see alcohol as a ‘solution’ to a problem: I want to see it as a product that has been created with care and attention; is high quality and something to savour and enjoy in moderation.At the risk of sounding a snob - I don’t drink cheap stuff I’d rather save up for a nice bottle, share it with friends over a nice meal and limit myself to a glass.

Maybe the real problem is how cheap and easily available it is now. If wine was still an expensive luxury and people actually cared about the quality of the beer they drank, they might treat it with more respect. Drinking alone is also a big problem in the UK, with more people living alone in challenging careers. I was shocked to find how much some of my single female friends put away! Their excuse is that once they open a bottle - they just keep re-filling their glasses.

 

[ac_claire]

I am of the opinion that the age should be lowered to 18, but the person that wants to buy and consume alcohol should take a class (similar to Driver’s Ed.) along with a parent/guardian. Once said person passes the class, they and their parent/guardian can both be held accountable should the person do something stupid and reckless with their new found freedom. Once they turn 21, then the parent/guardian can no longer be responsible for the actions of their child. That’s just my opinion, I doubt that would fly with many legislators.

Ehhh I agree, I don’t think this would ever fly. Please spare us from yet another government-mandated, pointless preparation class. Everyone knows what alcohol is, what it does, and what the consequences are. People who violate the rules and drink illegally or inappropriately don’t do so because of lack of knowledge or “training” about drinking.

My other questions (as per the topic) have to do with alcohol in your family. How do you treat it? Do you allow your children to have it at a certain age under strict supervision? Did you raise them with having it at family events? Is it a major part of your culture? Do you not have alcohol in your house at all?

We are not Baptist teetotalers in my family. All things in moderation.

 

[MadameButterfly]

As a parent of 4 boys, ranging in age from 17 down to 9, I’m trying to raise them to drink responsibly. Instead of treating alcohol as a drug to be avoided at all costs until the age of 21, I’m treating it as just another beverage that one can enjoy as long as it’s done in moderation. Our state law helps in that respect because although the drinking age is 21, someone younger than that can drink with their parents’ permission, both in their house as well as in a restaurant.

Here’s what we do in our family: At a certain age (sometime between the ages of 10-12), if my child is interested in tasting something dh or I are drinking, I let them take a sip of it. Most of time, they end up going eww . Once they’re 16, they can drink a full serving of alcohol (glass of wine, bottle of Schmirnoff Ice, Kahlua & Creme, etc.); it doesn’t happen that often, maybe once a month or so. And while the law allows my dc to drink in public with my permission, I don’t allow it. Not only does it bother my parents, but I don’t feel comfortable with it (although I may reconsider when my oldest turns 18).

Why do I follow this course? Well, my parents put the fear of God in me if I drank a drop of alcohol before the age of 21 (and then some). Going from alcohol is evil, to alcohol is fine, didn’t help me at all. I wish I would have been taught that drinking alcohol in moderation is fine, but drinking to excess is bad; instead, treating alcohol as a “forbidden fruit” just encouraged binge drinking .

Dh, on the other hand, is Italian and alcohol is a big part of his culture (wine, beer, grappa ). Like sanctamaria17 mentioned, drinking alcohol was no big deal. They made their own wine, made homemade “cough medicine” with brandy, and added a shot of Amaretto/Grappa to coffee. Occasionally, someone had a few too many (usually at a wedding), but they never got to the point where they passed out. And I cannot name one person from dh’s family (or their extended group of friends) who has/had a drinking problem.

MB

 

[stringbeanduck]

Exactly, alcohal shouldn’t be treated as an evil thing, because it only makes kids more currious. I grew up around alcohal, so it’s very normal to have a drink every so often. Whether it’s something at the family table, working outside, or games with my brother in law, I know to use it responsible. I’ve seen what it does to people when they turn to it in pain.

 

[lizaanne]

Our state law helps in that respect because although the drinking age is 21, someone younger than that can drink with their parents’ permission, both in their house as well as in a restaurant.

I have never heard of this before! Do you mind me asking what state you live in? Not questioning you, just curious.

~Liza

 

[stringbeanduck]

I have never heard of this before! Do you mind me asking what state you live in? Not questioning you, just curious.

~Liza

The National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984 only pressured the states to raise the purchase age and public possesion age of alcohal to 21. This is totally seperation from consumption. Many states(not all) have took it upon themselves though raise the consumption age to 21 although there are a wide range of exceptions. Usually in the presence of a parent, religious, medical, and educational.