Alcohol

[John_of_Woking]

CA Forummers…My question to you…What is the alcohol limit you set on yourself.? I am not judging anyone as we all have different thresholds and I know this is not clear cut

In my late teens I was a typical heavy-ish drinker and did not really set limits. More recently for a few years I made sure I stayed under the weekly recommended limit but would some times have three to four pints on a Saturday night and just a couple of pints on one or two week nights…

Recently I have been limiting myself to a maximum of two pints a day and usually only on a Sunday, a Saturday and one week night.

However on Sunday (after a virtually dry week) I had a beer followed by a 175ml glass of wine with my sunday lunch

Then three and a half hours later we went down to a friend who was celebrating her birthday. She suggested we all had a small glass of bubbly/wine (150 ml) to celebrate and I was going to refuse but I judged that as I was sober and it had been a few hours it would not harm and be the joyous thing to do. I would not have drunk this is if I had judged it sinful but now I am looking back thinking was that too much? I did know that it was over the recommended daily limit of alcohol which in the UK is 4 units. Whereas I had imbibed between 5 and 6 units of alcohol (above the recommended 4 unit intake). I didn’t feel drunk in the slightest…but

a) Would anyone consider this too much?
b) What is your own personal limit?
c) I had a horrible dream (I hope not sexual) the following night… was I indirectly culpable through my alcohol intake?

Thanks

 

[NewsTheMan]

I would say you are fine. Don’t be so scrupulous; as long as you weren’t drunk and you weren’t drinking to get drunk you are fine I think!

Personally - I don’t touch alcohol. I am an amatuer natural bodybuilder so my body just wouldn’t respond well to even one beer (not to mention it wouldn’t fit in with my calories per day ) but I don’t drink like my peers.

I am in University and everyone around me drinks HEAVILY. No need to explain I am sure. Uni is where people drink stupid amounts. I used to do the same myself. Since I reverted, I promised myself I would never touch the stuff for the purpose of getting drunk ever again.

 

[smithm29]

If I’m tipsy when I go to say my night prayers, I’ve had too much to drink. Otherwise, I’m fine with it- some days I can drink more than others. Weather, the amount of sleep I had the night before, the size of my dinner- those all affect it. There’s no hard and fast “bottle rule” for me, but I do know when it’s time to stop.

 

[OraLabora]

During the week: a beer or glass of wine with dinner.

On weekends: a beer before dinner and a glass or two of wine with dinner.

Only very, very rarely will I drink hard liquor (either a scotch or a cognac, nothing else, and I think I’ve had two scotches in the past 5 years).

But I drink good strong Belgian abbey beer. Now I know why monks are so happy

 

[Samson01]

A 40 a night.

 

[John_of_Woking]

I would say you are fine. Don’t be so scrupulous; as long as you weren’t drunk and you weren’t drinking to get drunk you are fine I think!

Personally - I don’t touch alcohol. I am an amatuer natural bodybuilder so my body just wouldn’t respond well to even one beer (not to mention it wouldn’t fit in with my calories per day ) but I don’t drink like my peers.

I am in University and everyone around me drinks HEAVILY. No need to explain I am sure. Uni is where people drink stupid amounts. I used to do the same myself. Since I reverted, I promised myself I would never touch the stuff for the purpose of getting drunk ever again.

I look on my uni days with much regret. I commend you for swimming against the tide.

 

[John_of_Woking]

During the week: a beer or glass of wine with dinner.

On weekends: a beer before dinner and a glass or two of wine with dinner.

Only very, very rarely will I drink hard liquor (either a scotch or a cognac, nothing else, and I think I’ve had two scotches in the past 5 years).

But I drink good strong Belgian abbey beer. Now I know why monks are so happy

I reserve a cognac and a decent cigar…for Christmas and Easter after a large meal…do I feel like washing all the dishes afterwards ?

 

[JohnDamian]

In answer to your three questions;

a) No; your limit is certainly not too much.
b) In UK unit’s, about eight to ten.
c) No.

Generally speaking, it is only bad if one drinks to the point of stupidity or dangerousness to themselves and others. Like anything else, it is not the alcahol itself that is the problem; but people who abuse it.

 

[Joe_5859]

This sin is in getting drunk, not violating the UK’s arbitrary upper limit of how much alcohol one should consume in a day.

 

[Samson01]

This sin is in getting drunk, not violating the UK’s arbitrary upper limit of how much alcohol one should consume in a day.

What is drunk? .09 BAC? Is the sin in being drunk or drunkeness? If I drink til drunk at home and go to sleep, is there sin? Thanks.

 

[smithm29]

St. Thomas Aquinas uses the word drunkenness, but from the context, you can tell that he means “the state of being drunk” is a sin.

Objection 1. It would seem that drunkenness is not a sin. For every sin has a corresponding contrary sin, thus timidity is opposed to daring, and presumption to pusillanimity. But no sin is opposed to drunkenness. Therefore drunkenness is not a sin.

Objection 2. Further, every sin is voluntary [Augustine, De Vera Relig. xiv]. But no man wishes to be drunk, since no man wishes to be deprived of the use of reason. Therefore drunkenness is not a sin.

Objection 3. Further, whoever causes another to sin, sins himself. Therefore, if drunkenness were a sin, it would follow that it is a sin to ask a man to drink that which makes him drunk, which would seem very hard.

Objection 4. Further, every sin calls for correction. But correction is not applied to drunkards: for Gregory [Cf. Canon Denique, dist. 4 where Gratian refers to a letter of St. Gregory to St. Augustine of Canterbury] says that “we must forbear with their ways, lest they become worse if they be compelled to give up the habit.” Therefore drunkenness is not a sin.

On the contrary, The Apostle says (Romans 13:13): “Not in rioting and drunkenness.”

I answer that, Drunkenness may be understood in two ways. First, it may signify the defect itself of a man resulting from his drinking much wine, the consequence being that he loses the use of reason. On this sense drunkenness denotes not a sin, but a penal defect resulting from a fault. Secondly, drunkenness may denote the act by which a man incurs this defect. This act may cause drunkenness in two ways. On one way, through the wine being too strong, without the drinker being cognizant of this: and in this way too, drunkenness may occur without sin, especially if it is not through his negligence, and thus we believe that Noah was made drunk as related in Genesis 9. On another way drunkenness may result from inordinate concupiscence and use of wine: in this way it is accounted a sin, and is comprised under gluttony as a species under its genus. For gluttony is divided into “surfeiting [Douay:,‘rioting’] and drunkenness,” which are forbidden by the Apostle (Romans 13:13).

Reply to Objection 1. As the Philosopher says (Ethic. iii, 11), insensibility which is opposed to temperance “is not very common,” so that like its species which are opposed to the species of intemperance it has no name. Hence the vice opposed to drunkenness is unnamed; and yet if a man were knowingly to abstain from wine to the extent of molesting nature grievously, he would not be free from sin.

Reply to Objection 2. This objection regards the resulting defect which is involuntary: whereas immoderate use of wine is voluntary, and it is in this that the sin consists.

Reply to Objection 3. Even as he that is drunk is excused if he knows not the strength of the wine, so too is he that invites another to drink excused from sin, if he be unaware that the drinker is the kind of person to be made drunk by the drink offered. But if ignorance be lacking neither is excused from sin.

Reply to Objection 4. Sometimes the correction of a sinner is to be foregone, as stated above (Question 33, Article 6). Hence Augustine says in a letter (Ad Aurel. Episc. Ep. xxii), “Meseems, such things are cured not by bitterness, severity, harshness, but by teaching rather than commanding, by advice rather than threats. Such is the course to be followed with the majority of sinners: few are they whose sins should be treated with severity.”

 

[John_of_Woking]

This sin is in getting drunk, not violating the UK’s arbitrary upper limit of how much alcohol one should consume in a day.

Agreed. It is very arbitrary and somewhat irksome. I guess the health& safety police like to micromanage our life…

 

[Samson01]

St. Thomas Aquinas uses the word drunkenness, but from the context, you can tell that he means “the state of being drunk” is a sin.

Very good, thank you.

 

[Newbie2]

It would also be wise to consider, which some here have, the effect of one’s drinking on another…as an example. Some people hold their alchohol better than others, some people will have reasonably healthy livers after years of drinking, etc, etc. If a person leads another into a habit of (unhealthy) drinking by example of his or her own evern “healthy” drinking, that would be unwise and possibly sinful.

I rarely drink more than one or two drinks in an evening, beer or whisky, and at that maybe once every month or two. Got room-spinning, head-in-a-vice, gut-heaving, sick-drunk about 20 years ago and swore I’d never do it again…and haven’t overdone it since.

 

[stringbeanduck]

What is drunk? .09 BAC? Is the sin in being drunk or drunkeness? If I drink til drunk at home and go to sleep, is there sin? Thanks.

There’s no set BAC to be drunk, at least morally, since each person holds their liquor differently. In general its deliberately drinking to the point at which you lose control of your reason(you make decisions that endanger your life or others, commit other sins you wouldn’t normally do whilst sober…) . Since our reason is our God given tool to decipher sin from not sin, drunkenness opens the door to a whole lot of evil. If you can not remember your actions the day after you were drinking, chances are you were drunk. It is a mortal sin provided a person is aware of it’s gravity yet chooses to do so anyway. Drunkenness that is not intended isn’t a mortal sin.

Location doesn’t matter. Drunk is drunk is drunk.

 

[Samson01]

There’s no set BAC to be drunk, at least morally, since each person holds their liquor differently. In general its deliberately drinking to the point at which you lose control of your reason(you make decisions that endanger your life or others, commit other sins you wouldn’t normally do whilst sober…) . Since our reason is our God given tool to decipher sin from not sin, drunkenness opens the door to a whole lot of evil. If you can not remember your actions the day after you were drinking, chances are you were drunk. It is a mortal sin provided a person is aware of it’s gravity yet chooses to do so anyway. Drunkenness that is not intended isn’t a mortal sin.

Location doesn’t matter. Drunk is drunk is drunk.

See, if I drink a 40 oz., I can sleep it off in a hour or two. Though I don’t operate a vehicle because my BAC is probably over .09, I don’t feel tipsy, or anything after a nap. This also depends on what I eat, as I only drink if eating at least peanuts to having a full meal. I think location matters alot, but that is up to debate and is an interesting idea. What do you folks think? Does location matter? Some places require keen reflex’s and reason…

 

[Rence]

a) Would anyone consider this too much?

No, but too much is different for everyone. You have to know your own limits.

b) What is your own personal limit?

I don’t have a limit with wine or beer anymore A mere 2 TBSP of wine or beer will congest my sinuses so badly that I would have to drink more than you to forget that I am congested Plus, I get uncomfortably hot. However, when I didn’t have that problem, when I was younger, my limits were as follows:

• never on a school night (I was in college)
• never when I was outside my home (except with my parents - ie restaurant w/family)
• never ever, not even 1, when I was going to be driving
• not more than 2 beers, or not more than 2 glasses of wine, or not more than 4 shots. You realize everyone has their own limit. I used to be able to drink a lot more without any ill effect. I’m quite sure that allergies aside I probably could’t make it to 2 beers today.

Even today, I don’t “go out to drink”. I love the taste of most alcohol, and I’ll indulge in it once in a while in the late evening, but never to the point of getting “buzzed” or “drunk” and always in a controlled environment (home, or home with friends/family, or a friend/family’s home with a designated driver who wasn’t drinking). And since drinking wine or beer makes me miserable, I’m limited to the distilled stuffs, and my limit is still 4 shots.

c) I had a horrible dream (I hope not sexual) the following night… was I indirectly culpable through my alcohol intake?
Thanks

I don’t think you were culpable for the dream unless your intention was to cause the dream by drinking (if that’s what happens to you when you drink. I usually fall into a dead sleep if I drink too much and wake up nauseous the next morning. Not very tempting… )

 

[cynic]

Recently I have been limiting myself to a maximum of two pints a day and usually only on a Sunday, a Saturday and one week night.

Seems okay, but two pints *every *day would definately be harmful to your health, increasing your risk of cancer (pure alcohol is a carcinogen). Better to limit it to 3-4 standard drinks a week. Also avoid drinking cognac or port as they contain methanol.

 

[smithm29]

By “a day”, I think he means “a day when I drink”, and there are only 3 of those listed.

 

[zielwolf]

I’m reminded of Paul telling Timothy to stop being so scrupulous and stop drinking only water but also drink a little wine for the good of his stomach (1 Timothy 5:23).

I doubt they would have had maximum daily limits in the Apostles Day though.

But anyway, personally I don’t think it matters how much you drink as long as you don’t drink too much. What matters is that you remain in control of your functions. There’s nothing bad about alcohol in itself. Otherwise Christ would hardly have made it the focus of the most important of His sacraments - indeed, the consecration of the wine is the very moment when He is mystically “slain” in the Mass through the sacramental separation of His Body and Blood; the moment at which the Sacrifice of the Mass is completed.

Alcohol becomes bad when it makes you lose control and it leads you into sin. I think most of us can sense when we’ve had enough to drink by listening to our brains and bodies and know we are at risk of going too far - we don’t need the government to tell us how much is too much.