Aliens with souls?

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Interesting question! When Christopher Columbus first discovered America and its simple, half-naked inhabitants and took stories about them back to Europe, there was a big debate in Europe about whether these uncivilized people were human and if they had souls.

But the difference with aliens if we discover them will be that they will very likely turn out to be more advanced than us - so they will probably be the ones wondering if we had souls.
The universe is a really big place. It is remarkably unlikely that we will contact other intelligent life (or any life). The distances are just too big.

Still a few million years is a long time maybe enough to reach some close stars.

My guess is that we live and die on earth in isolation.

God’s other creatures also are isolated.

The good news is we can understand some about how big God’s universe is.

It is a long way from one island to the next.

We should focus on living and loving well here on earth.
 
All we can do is speculate about this, no one here knows for sure what the aliens may be like.
a more reasonable question is did the Neanderthals have a soul.

They made tools
they lived in communities
they buried their dead
they created art.

I suspect they had souls
 
Fair summary but “They would not however be “human”, since this word implies a specific kind of embodiment” is prob a moot point, at least with Scholastics.

As you say “It is a distinction that has been immaterial up to now” and therefore “human” is at the very least an ambiguous word in Thomistic understanding. To be human was to be a rational animal and to be a rational animal was to be human.

Hence the word “human” actually has two meanings for Scholastics:
(a) it defines a genus (all “rational animals”)
(b) it also defines the only known species in that genus (those with smooth skin, erect posture, 5 fingers and opposable thumbs etc).

As opined below:
  • “… “angels” are each a different species and in fact the word “angel” describes a “genus” not a “species”. So if aliens came on the scene then the word “human” would prob follow the same fate.”*
    Then again it may not.
The problem is there is only one species of “rational animal” known for sure at the moment. Until one knocks at the door the “correct” meaning of human won’t be a problem for me :eek:.
so what would St Tomas make of the current data on the Neanderthals. they seem to meet your criteria. Also made art, lived together, buried the dead…
 
The universe is a really big place. It is remarkably unlikely that we will contact other intelligent life (or any life). The distances are just too big.

Still a few million years is a long time maybe enough to reach some close stars.

My guess is that we live and die on earth in isolation.

God’s other creatures also are isolated.

The good news is we can understand some about how big God’s universe is.

It is a long way from one island to the next.

We should focus on living and loving well here on earth.
I agree that it is very unlikely that humans will be visiting the closest earth-like planet anytime soon. However, the chance of someone from one of those planets visiting us is much higher than that. This is mainly because there are probably so many of them that one could easily be far more advanced than us.

As an example: you are one person among 6 billion other humans - what is the chance that there is one human being somewhere in the world with an IQ much higher than yours? Pretty high won’t you say?

I am not saying you should not live and love well here on earth - just don’t be blind to possibilities.It will not take much of your time to think of those (and will definitely not interfere with all the living and loving you are no doubt already doing).
 
a more reasonable question is did the Neanderthals have a soul.

They made tools
they lived in communities
they buried their dead
they created art.

I suspect they had souls
Oh, I think they had souls too, but their entire existence has always really stumped me, not sure what their purpose was, it also seems God made no effort to come into these peoples lives in anyway.

Does the CC have a view or opinion on them?
 
First of all aliens are not yet proven to exist. Reports about alien crafts were dismissed/hidden etc so people wouldn’t get into hysteria. Isn’t that the most convenient way to trick people? Hiding the “evidence” and treating it as there is something but it is hidden from you? Then the major strength of the proofs are the cross references by multiple witness not knowing about each other…how can you be sure of this in the era of the secret societies? Lights in the night? Video recordings?
 
Oh, I think they had souls too, but their entire existence has always really stumped me, not sure what their purpose was, it also seems God made no effort to come into these peoples lives in anyway.

Does the CC have a view or opinion on them?
there seems to be little Catholic teaching on this subject

The letter of Piux XII does not mention them. It does require one Adam
 
so what would St Tomas make of the current data on the Neanderthals. they seem to meet your criteria. Also made art, lived together, buried the dead…
Yep I think they could be classed as human.
I hears of a study recently by DNA specialists who have been researching human DNA.
They have concluded that we have scattered large blocks of DNA that come from interbreeding with another “species” (Neanderthals) and this enabled us to live in much colder climates (white skin and more hair I suppose).
Unfortunately their DNA isn’t totally harmonising with the “base DNA” and, surprise surprise, these blocks of DNA are exactly the ones associated with the many autoimmune diseases that affect the human race today.
We are in fact rejecting their DNA!
 
Yep I think they could be classed as human.
I hears of a study recently by DNA specialists who have been researching human DNA.
They have concluded that we have scattered large blocks of DNA that come from interbreeding with another “species” (Neanderthals) and this enabled us to live in much colder climates (white skin and more hair I suppose).
Unfortunately their DNA isn’t totally harmonising with the “base DNA” and, surprise surprise, these blocks of DNA are exactly the ones associated with the many autoimmune diseases that affect the human race today.
We are in fact rejecting their DNA!
Do you think God tried in anyway to come into these peoples lives at any time? Or any kind of contact, or making them aware of a ultimate creator?

I mean, they were people, they were not animals, it seems strange to me God would create such a race of people and then have nothing to do with them…We know God does not make mistakes, so that cannot be the answer, they must have had some purpose.
 
Do you think God tried in anyway to come into these peoples lives at any time? Or any kind of contact, or making them aware of a ultimate creator?

I mean, they were people, they were not animals, it seems strange to me God would create such a race of people and then have nothing to do with them…We know God does not make mistakes, so that cannot be the answer, they must have had some purpose.
If we posit they had intellectual souls then it seems Genesis must apply to them as well. If that is the case then the other species of human that existed along with Neaderthals must both of them come from another common human species started by Adam and Eve.
 
Point taken.

I am not in any sense a Thomist.

In his time, and indeed now for that matter, “human” was synonymous with “rational-minded and embodied.”

As our knowledge of biology has advanced since then, it has also been assigned to “a being possessing a certain type of embodiment, and genetic structure.”

Should sapient aliens be discovered, they would not have human bodies; and so we would in all likelihood NOT call them “human.” Rather, a more unwieldy term (“rational being”??) would be defined for the new superset of which human life, and the aliens, would be subsets.

ICXC NIKA.
(Disclaimer: I have yet to get into Aquinas, I know I need to study a lot of theology, science, and history to fill in gaps in my knowledge. It’s hard amidst daily life, as I’m no longer a student, to give some of those deep thinkers the close concentration and attentive reading they deserve. But I hope to carve out time to do so. Bucket list!)

But GEddie, your post is possibly the best on this entire thread in its attempt to clarify the terminology and what it is we’re discussing. I am interested in exobiology and speculation about these sorts of things, which many consider a waste of time, but God gave me a curious mind! 😉

Angels, we know, are God’s creation, and are purely intelligent beings of pure spirit, and there are different choirs of them. Angels can assume a human form in some instances when that serves God’s purposes. Maybe fallen angels (demons) can as well to do the Devil’s work, I’m not sure on that one.

Sentient beings with eternal, spiritual souls is how I’m going to classify humans and any other (at this point hypothetical, but possibly someday proven to exist) beings God may have created on faraway planets. They would be the “humans” among their planets’ “animal,” “plant” and other inferior species, some of which would be analogous to our Earthly categories of lifeforms, others might be unique to how life developed on their world.

The term “aliens” tends to be problematic. I believe it is likely that true, scientifically plausible aliens exist. We may never know of specific instances due to the vast cosmic distances. The type of “alien from outer space” that has taken hold of the popular imagination, distilled from a melange of science fiction imagery, Cold War fears, Roswell/Area 51 mythos, and the like - that kind I don’t believe is a real alien being from another planet, but rather an imaginary construct of human modern mythology.

I’ve laid the groundwork for discussion of whether the sentient beings with eternal, spiritual souls of the paragraph before last would need salvation. That would depend upon whether they did or did not commit their race’s analogue to the human race’s Original Sin. As to how God would make a plan for their salvation should they have committed that sin, that’s up to Him. He is infinite and can deal with this question better than we can, although I’m writing a science fiction novel that attempts to address the question at least obliquely. I think sometimes I’m a glutton for punishment for trying, but I’m in too deep to back out now! :compcoff:
 
Sentient beings with eternal, spiritual souls is how I’m going to classify humans and any other (at this point hypothetical, but possibly someday proven to exist) beings God may have created on faraway planets.
👍

Except I would add the words, “physically embodied” to sentient being. After all, embodiment is the crucial component that would separate planetary life from angels, etc.

While is is true that your mind is the most human part of you, it is still your body that makes you somebody!

ICXC NIKA
 
👍

Except I would add the words, “physically embodied” to sentient being. After all, embodiment is the crucial component that would separate planetary life from angels, etc.

While is is true that your mind is the most human part of you, it is still your body that makes you somebody!

ICXC NIKA
Thank you - good catch! I was trying to hold all the criteria in my mind :juggle: and I left that important one out. Ooopsie! :o
 
I think everything GOD created has a spirit but I believe only humans that are made in the image and likeness of GOD has the soul and spirit, I don’t think that a playful little dog is just a bunch of tissue and hair that happens to be jumping around, or that has dreams or that has emotions has nothing. I think they have a spirit…are there not horses in Heaven? i.e. 4 horsemen of the apocalypse? maybe if there are others from distant worlds that is the reason they come to Earth, perhaps they are fascinated by the creatures who have the soul and spirit and image/likeness of GOD.
what would you say about the neanderthals. We don’t know a lot about them. We procreated with them. They made cave art that is impressive and buried their dead.
 
what would you say about the neanderthals. We don’t know a lot about them. We procreated with them. They made cave art that is impressive and buried their dead.
If they could mate with “human life”, then they were human beings, and had souls.

Soul does not depend on the shape of your head (provided the head is large enough to hold a mind) or on what later biologists say a “species” is.

ICXC NIKA
 
We are part of a member of a group of galaxies termed the Local Group that contains approximately 20 bright galaxies and 30 galaxies total. Everything else in the universe is moving away from this group in the fabric of space that will eventually speed up to the speed of light and dissappear completely from view - mind you that is billions of years away - no evidence of them or the big-bang will remain. The local group will merge into one eliptical galaxy - in a billion years the andromeda galaxy will merge with the milky way galaxy to become one with all others following.This is what we see taking place as we look out into space.

If life was created 6 billion years from now they would look up into space and have no knowledge of the big-bang or that other galaxies existed or that our universe existed the way it does today - I find this truely amazing - the united one galaxy of the local group wil be an island of light in the middle of darkness - it would have to be Gods plan in the creation of the universe for this to happen - it is not for me to limit Gods creation so I imagine there is life out there - mathematically speaking the odds are there is with the uncountable amout of stars in the new galaxy that will form from the local group - all other galaxies are irrelavant as they will no longer be a part of our universe. Could this of been Gods plan from the very beginning?This is what astrophysics see happening as they look out at the universe.We appear to have been created to be able to see all this happening.

What if Aliens if they do exist have thier own form of religion and decide to convert us to thier way - we always assume we will convert them if they were to come. Maybe God has visited them also if they exist.Hopefully if they are there faith will be universal.
Gods creation is way beyond our comprehension we just don’t know what the final outcome of creation will be or what creation holds - we can only speak from our earthly point of view which is very limited at best.

I do not state anything as fact just what scientist claim to see today.
 
On a Catholic website how can we further discuss singular assertions that have no interior logic, defy Catholic principles/definitions and which are not referenced from sources Catholics might accept?
That is not singular assertions bot of millions. I try to learn Christianity so you may not get trouble with İslamics and you have no any urgency to accept. İt is all full of interior logic. I do not how much that issue is religional but it is more philosophy.
 
Brendan; [QUOTE said:
11857361That would be incorrect. The presence of a soul is what distinguishes living matter from dead matter. If a plant had no soul, it would not nor could not, be alive.
Matter does not have life on it’s own, it must have a spiritual force to impart it, and that force is a soul.
So does soul has a life without God? You forgot that God make and give life to souls. The power and life of soul come from manifestation of God’s life and power as a law. Without any soul God can give life as law.
 
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