Aliens?

[scameter18]

For one, I think it’s a bit presumptuous to say that there is certainly a multiverse. There is no substantial scientific proof that there are multiple universes, similarly to the lack of proof for string theory. But that is a bit off-topic.

Secondly, and more to the point, I think that the question of why God would or would not do something is difficult to answer, especially on speculative grounds. We do not really know if there are other sentient species in the universe or not, and none of us will probably ever know in our lifetimes. We only know what we know right now. But, to ask why God would make so much in the universe for only one sentient species is I think similar to the question of why God allowed Earth and organic life to exist so long before humans came about, for example with dinosaurs. But this presumes that sentient life is the only or primary purpose of God’s creative work. I think all of Creation is important to God, not only for our benefit but for the pure artistry of His creativity. It could also be asked why there is so much life on Earth, much of which no one will ever see or have anything to do with. But the fact that, as far as we know right now, the only life that exists is on Earth, and for that life to exist requires extreme fine-tuning of our environment is indicative of our uniqueness. But again, speculative theology is very difficult.

 

[1AugustSon7]

The old Galileo chestnut again: giving the impression that the Church was geocentric until 1992! They don`t bother to mention that Copernicus was a priest who was in good standing with the Church; and was buried in Frombork Cathedral, Poland.

Yes, but he (Copernicus) is also the source of the completely fallacious belief that the Church Fathers were all Flat-Earthers. He gave the dissenting opinion of a single Church Father as being emblamatic of all the Church Fathers. This is otherwise known as intellectual fraud or lying, and it was and is a complete reversal of the reality.

He was also suspected of sodomy (though by association only, hence I say he was merely suspected), which brings into question his holiness as a priest; and, moreover, he was a neopagan in many respects. Part of his driving motive for positing the cosmos as he did was to square it with pagan beliefs he had or rather imported from the pagans of Western antiquity. The planets take on theological significance when this is done, such that the Sun figuratively represents God. It follows then that all creation should orbit (worship) the Sun, and so on.

 

[1AugustSon7]

Each civilization could have its own salvation plan and Redeemer. God makes the rules. If he says this is OK, who’s going to argue.
The Redeemers might be aware of each other but wouldn’t need to know details of each other’s histories.
There is only one Son of God for all.

No there can only be one Redeemer, as you seem to recognise in your concluding statement. This is of course assuming that the imaginary aliens likewise fell as man fell, which is not necessary. But if they had fallen, you seem to be forgetting that it was necessarily God Himself Who had to redeem mankind: no one else could possibly do that. So there is not and cannot be a multitude of “Redeemers.”

For the record, I do not think there is reason to believe in the existence of man-like beings on other corporeal worlds. I am happy to think of the angels, the glorious saints and martyrs in Heaven, and the poor souls in purgatory. These, I suspect, are more deserving of our thoughts, attention and consideration.

 

[wcknight]

Actually there is evidence of other universes. At the edges of ours, many galaxies are ‘flowing’ in one direction. It was originally thought that the universe folded upon itself. So traveling through one side of the universe, one would come out through the other side. This would have implied that one part of the universe would be similar or mirror another part. There has been no evidence of this. But the flowing galaxies indicates that there is something influencing the edges of our universe, like bubbles next to each other one limits or interacts with the others at the edges.

Life exists in very extreme conditions, in volcanic areas, or in extreme cold, there are many micro-organisms. Life does not only have to be in human form. Just because humans require a limited range of temperatures and conditions does not mean other life forms could not survive.

Personally I would love to see a prehistoric planet or a civilization far in advance of ours. I suspect part of heaven is discovering other worlds.

 

[scameter18]

That is more evidence of dark matter and the expanding universe than multiple universes. All the evidence I’ve seen indicates that the universe is infinite in breadth, is expanding, and includes large quantities of dark matter and dark energy. But even if it is possible that there could be multiple universes, I think it’s unscientific to presume that they exist, as many scientists also do of the unsubstantiated string theory.

Which is why it is equally interesting that we have seen no evidence of life forms, even microscopic, outside Earth. The conditions necessary for life to exist at all are very fine-tuned, even in conditions that seem extreme to us. For example, life could not possibly exist on the majority of planets in our solar system because the environment could not sustain organic life, even if its atmosphere has the necessary components.

Even if there are other civilizations, there is only one God, and Heaven would be Beatitude with Him - even if in Heaven we meet aliens. That would be rather interesting.

 

[shoe]

I think that if God had made, in addition to making Adam and Eve, other human beings in other parts of the universe, then that would mean that even though Adam had passed down his sin nature to his descendants, other groups of people in the universe would be sinless. But this seems to contradict the Bible: “Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world, and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned” (Romans 5:12).

But if we wish to believe that other human beings in other parts of the universe did exist at the same time as Adam and Eve, and that they somehow had a sin nature, then their sin nature could not have originated with Adam. Therefore, the redeeming power of Jesus (the second Adam), who came to set mankind free from the consequences of original sin and eternal death, which the first Adam had brought on, could not pertain to those human beings in the other worlds, since that also seems to contradict the Bible: “And as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive” (1 Corinthians 15:22).

 

[scameter18]

I would think that if other sentient beings existed in the universe, they would not be human. Humans specifically came about based on Earth’s atmosphere and habitat, and our soul is uniquely human. Most likely an alien species would be completely different, biologically if not spiritually.

 

[itullian]

According to what I’ve read , the chances for alien intelligent life are now considered slim to none. the new telescopes enable astronomers to see back to the beginning of creation and to explore the most distant galaxies.

no systems that could support intelligent life have been located.

a big switch from " there must be countless civilizations out there "

i do think discovering aliens would deminish our importance in creation. we would no longer be special
and if Gods revelation was missing from the aliens history, then what?

 

[scameter18]

I can certainly see where you’re coming from there, both philosophically and scientifically. In the former sense, any sentient alien civilization must necessarily have some spiritual relationship with God, even if it is different in some way from ours, as there is only one true God. With them also being creatures and limited thereby, I think God would also give them some form of revelation, as He did us.

But as you said, scientifically it is highly unlikely that aliens exist, for many reasons both empirical and theoretical.

However, if sentient aliens did exist, I think that we would still be special because we are made in the image of God. Because He is limitless, it is quite possible that He could also make an alien species in His image too. If they were sentient, I imagine that would have a soul akin to ours at least in some ways.

 

[Ion]

My opinion is all the univers was created about 6000-7000 years ago; scientifically, if it takes 1 bilion years for a observed phenomena to take place, God didn’t have to wait that long for that to happen;
Universe is proven finite, imense but finite. My opinion is that God made it that big to match the skills He put in us.
Evolutionists needs those huge numbers of years to push their theory. Whithout knowing how a bunch of matter become a living cell, to say it happened by chance, has nothing to do with science. Their dating is a bunch of illusions, and would make you laugh if it were not that damaging to other people beliefs.
The whole universe got corrupted by Eve and Adam sin.
There are mentioned in the bible the falled angels, which invented religions and presented themselves to people as gods. From other religions writings, they are male or female (angels do not have sex). They die because they are sinfull and didn’t mind doing all sort of sins.They took womens and had childrens, the giants and heroes of ancient times. They might have other childrens we don’t know about. They had far more knowledge and intelligence, and didn’t need thousand of years to develop rockets, laser and atomic bombs (in indian hindu there are mentioned wars between them with atomic bombs). They worked together with the evil spirits (which they probably personally knew) because they asked people to worship false gods.
I watched ancient aliens on history channel; they say that evolution produced on other planets this aliens and they were comming to create and help humanity??? Then why those atomic wars between them? Humanitarians gods do not fight to the death between them and do not kill each others worshipers in the process. They wanted miners for gold??? Whith their knowledge and intelligence and technology they didn’t need miners…The guys that made the ancient aliens show are evolutionist and it is funny to see them facing the existence of spiritual beings in those believes brought by the ancient aliens…

 

[Sparrowhawk1161]

If they were to have souls like ours, it`d be more accurate to call them “rational aliens”. The immortal human soul is the seat of the intellect and the will; and those two attributes are what separate us from the other sentient animals on Earth.

The old Galileo chestnut again: giving the impression that the Church was geocentric until 1992! They dont bother to mention that Copernicus was a priest who was in good standing with the Church; and was buried in Frombork Cathedral, Poland. ** PS** Sam: "brothers"? That suggestion wouldnt be PC!

He is saying that souls are something unique to humans. So aliens, if they exist with in the infinite cosmos… might not have them.

So, if they don’t have souls, we are back at square on… the father of science Galiloe, saying that the earth was NOT the center of the universe and was imprisoned and took 500 years for him to be forgiven, because of the fact. The Catholic Church takes forever to see change! A cautious move… rightly in itself because we seem to have scientific answers coming out of nowhere and who knows when it will change. Not, knocking science and it’s advances, but when it comes to faith… causion is best before you commit to anything of of science.

So, do Aliens, extraterristrials have souls? Good question. We are still wondering if provable science has anything but microbial evidence of life. Do they have souls?

Do you remember the “Andrameda Strain,” Movie were a single organism almost destroyed us. There was a black board that showed a single tiny organism that asked, “Take me to your leader?”

That’s the point. the Vastican and all it’s area’s says now… “Yes, exterrestrial lifeforma are on our planet!” But before we give them sould, I think we need more info."

 

[scameter18]

I’ve never heard the Vatican say there are aliens on Earth, but… As St. Augustine said, when Christians are ignorant of scientific facts, our truth appears irrational. The Church is and has always been completely in agreement with scientific facts, even if we sometimes disagree with the separate, metaphysical beliefs that some scientists derive from those facts.

 

[Sparrowhawk1161]

OK… ARRGH.

I am new here. OK… just saying Ok… But, we do know that the Vatican has allowed the exsistance as a possibity on other planets.

I would love to say that a lowely priest has seen an alien. Ok… trhat isn’t fare is it? Since I just joined… back to the fun forum I belong…

 

[Ion]

Why are people so excited about meeting aliens?
There is no record of “abducted person” saying at least “gee, they have fixed my cavities…”

 

[Sparrowhawk1161]

Unless the aliens a dentists!

Have you ever went to a dentist…? They say sweet nothings in your ear… then comes that giant needle… you know that one that looks like your about to be tortured by the Spanish inquisition. As you say to yourself in your mind…please don’t torture me… like the days of old… a person with a paper horror mask, as quickly as making a salad for dinner, throws that needle into your gums and you go…

“OOOOUCH!”

“All done!”

Done, right? If I had an M16 you would be toast right now! Now what are you doing?

"I am putting cotton in your mouth.

“Yahhh… edee, haa giii mmm sick… tenn, I wooo ckulll yahhh.”

“Be quite we are starting to drill…”

“Yahhhh…”

Dentists are always aliens… ET’s from other planets… they love getting into your teet and doing diabolocal things…"

Yahhh!

 

[Ion]

Unless the aliens a dentists!

Have you ever went to a dentist…? They say sweet nothings in your ear… then comes that giant needle… you know that one that looks like your about to be tortured by the Spanish inquisition. As you say to yourself in your mind…please don’t torture me… like the days of old… a person with a paper horror mask, as quickly as making a salad for dinner, throws that needle into your gums and you go…

“OOOOUCH!”

“All done!”

Done, right? If I had an M16 you would be toast right now! Now what are you doing?

"I am putting cotton in your mouth.

“Yahhh… edee, haa giii mmm sick… tenn, I wooo ckulll yahhh.”

“Be quite we are starting to drill…”

“Yahhhh…”

Dentists are always aliens… ET’s from other planets… they love getting into your teet and doing diabolocal things…"

Yahhh!

thats nothing until you see the bill…

 

[Ion]

we shouldn’t be that tough on them because the so called “alien sculls” have also missing teeth…

 

[scameter18]

Nice

 

[Sair]

If they were to have souls like ours, it`d be more accurate to call them “rational aliens”. The immortal human soul is the seat of the intellect and the will; and those two attributes are what separate us from the other sentient animals on Earth.

You’ve lost me here.

Okay, I don’t understand precisely what kind of entity a ‘soul’ is in order to believe in such a thing, but even if I did, my strong disinclination towards anthropocentrism demands an explanation of why there ought to be any fundamental ethical separation between humans and other animals - certainly other mammals, to whom we are related in very obvious ways. Is the difference between us and, say, wolves or whales, one of degree or one of kind? From what I’ve seen and read, it’s the former. How do we know that other mammals, in particular, lack intellect and will to an extent comparable with ours? And how does this affect our approach to the intellect and will of a human with a developmental impairment or other mental disorder? If a 1-year-old pig, say, is as sentient and intelligent as a 4-year-old human child (as some studies suggest), how do you decide between ‘human’ and ‘animal’ souls?

 

[scameter18]

The Catholic idea of the soul is based in Revelation. It cannot be deduced simply from physical observation. Human beings have worth and innate dignity as humans because we are made in the image of God. This can be seen by our unique desire for God and for perfection, as well as our free will, our capacity for selfless love/charity, and in other ways. To say that a disabled person, such as a mentally retarded person, is less human because they do not exhibit every possible human trait is to say that human worth desires from some use or function we might have, rather than on the innate dignity of the human soul as made in the image of God. Animal souls are not made in the image of God precisely because they are incapable of contemplating God. If a human is incapacitated from doing so, that is a disorder of the natural human condition, not a different form of it. Normally, all humans are capable of this, just as a car is capable of driving by virtue of being a car, even if it is out of gas or damaged in some way.