All about deism...

[Elene]

Hi,

I have a relatively new acquaintance who is a very scientific-minded person. He told me today that he is a “deist.” I could sense that he was surprised to learn that I’m a Catholic and he wanted to talk more, but I didn’t because all I could think was - what the heck is a deist? All I know is what I read on Wikipedia about 10 minutes ago. Please educate me! How does someone (who does NOT have a vocation as an apologist ) explain Catholicism in a way that will make sense to a deist?

Thanks much!

 

[Cat_Herder]

A Deist is one who accepts that the Universe was created by a Supreme Being but denies that the Supreme Being has any active influence in the world today or that the Supreme Being is interested in the affairs of man.

Deists are usually such because they think the Bible is contradictory and so cannot be the Word of God. Hence, they can be easily converted to Catholicism upon a showing that the Bible contains no contradictions.

 

[Julian0404]

Go to Scott Hahn’s web site www.salvationhistory.com and look for his new CD or book wherein he counters the Hawkins/Dawkins athiestic duo and their scientific positions against the existence of GOD. Being a diest your friend should be open for the arguements by Mr. Hahn as he explains away the failings of science as attempt by the above persons.

 

[stephe1987]

They don’t always think the Bible is contradictory. They think the Bible was written by men and was made up. They say the origins (when, where, by whom) are too ambiguous to believe, and it takes too much faith to be a Christian.

 

[Vercingetorix]

A Deist is one who accepts that the Universe was created by a Supreme Being …

That’s a true statement.

… but denies that the Supreme Being has any active influence in the world today or that the Supreme Being is interested in the affairs of man.

False. This is a common but grossly exagerrated claim made by anti-Deists. A Deist does not presume to know the mind of God, so cannot say with any certainty that God has no active influence or is interested in the affairs of man.

Deists are usually such because they think the Bible is contradictory and so cannot be the Word of God.

Generally true, but the Bible is only one of many so-called sacred texts that claim to be the inerrant “Word of God”. Muslims also claim that there are no true contradictions in the Qu’ran, and they often use many of the same arguments that Catholics or Protestants do to prove their point. The existence of all these competing “revealed religions” is the true contradiction.

Hence, they can be easily converted to Catholicism upon a showing that the Bible contains no contradictions.

I was once “easily” converted to Catholicism from Protestantism. Then I converted to Deism after a long and very hard spiritual struggle. As a Catholic you should know about “the dark night of the soul”.

 

[Cat_Herder]

False. This is a common but grossly exagerrated claim made by anti-Deists. A Deist does not presume to know the mind of God, so cannot say with any certainty that God has no active influence or is interested in the affairs of man.

It’s actually the logical conclusion of the Supreme Being being, as deism posits, unknowable. If the SB had knowable influence in the world then the SB would be knowable through what the SB has done, leading to this conclusion:

[BIBLEDRB]Romans 1:20[/BIBLEDRB]

Generally true, but the Bible is only one of many so-called sacred texts that claim to be the inerrant “Word of God”.

Actually the Bible never claims that the Bible is the Word of God or even that the New Testament is inspired by God.

The existence of all these competing “revealed religions” is the true contradiction.

You may feel that all politicians are dishonest and that their myriad disagreements is proof, but that is nothing but a bare presupposition.

I was once “easily” converted to Catholicism from Protestantism. Then I converted to Deism after a long and very hard spiritual struggle. As a Catholic you should know about “the dark night of the soul”.

Indeed. With God’s grace you will endure.

 

[Sufjon]

As a Catholic you should know about “the dark night of the soul”.

Dear Vercingetorix: If you are saying that you personally have in fact gone through the dark night of the soul, then what you have learned is the wisdom hard-learned experience. It is no easy thing to pass through and it has my respect. Wherever you landed is where you are supposed to be.

Your friend,
Sufjon

 

[Pieman333272]

I was once “easily” converted to Catholicism from Protestantism. Then I converted to Deism after a long and very hard spiritual struggle. As a Catholic you should know about “the dark night of the soul”.

While I have no reason to doubt your deism is authentic and wholehearted, I would like to point out that what you went through was probably not the Dark Night in the Catholic sense, especially if it landed you in a camp with belief in a non-revealed God. You may have had an experience similar to it, be it divine, demonic, or psychological, or been or are a mystic, but the circumstances of the start point and end point of it for you in comparison to most cases would suggest it is an alternate experience which is comparable, not the same as, a Dark Night.

 

[uglygal]

I was once “easily” converted to Catholicism from Protestantism. Then I converted to Deism after a long and very hard spiritual struggle. As a Catholic you should know about “the dark night of the soul”.

This was my experience too. I was born and raised a catholic - was very “devout” in terms of praying the rosary, Eucharistic adoration, daily Mass, keeping solemnities. I came close to becoming a benedictine nun and worked hard on founding a religious community.
Then however, I also experienced “the dark night of the soul” and battled a very long and hard spiritual struggle which almost cost me my life on one occasion. It was there I found God whom I only know as the Father, and he led me out of Catholicism, my childhood faith, and the prison of misery I had been trapped in my whole life, and out into a desert where it’s just me and Him. I think perhaps I needed to be taken out of this, and away from all the spiritual “guides” and “priests” and “teachers” so that He alone could instruct me.

I watch and wait to see where He will lead me next

In terms of the OP question, it is my belief that God “converts” people. You as a person cannot do this. A person’s soul is God’s concern and he knows how to reach them best.
The best that you can do, is (1) not do anything to lay obstacles or scandal in their way, (2) pray and leave it to the Father, and (3) be humble and kind when sharing about your faith. To put in a Christian context, God is the sower who plants the seed and his providence and love is the sunlight that causes it to grow. You may be the water that nourishes the seed or the strangers heel that tramples it.

:heaven:

 

[uglygal]

Hi,

I have a relatively new acquaintance who is a very scientific-minded person. He told me today that he is a “deist.” I could sense that he was surprised to learn that I’m a Catholic and he wanted to talk more, but I didn’t because all I could think was - what the heck is a deist? All I know is what I read on Wikipedia about 10 minutes ago. Please educate me! How does someone (who does NOT have a vocation as an apologist ) explain Catholicism in a way that will make sense to a deist?

Thanks much!

It depends on the individual but I believe discussing God’s design and the natural world (science etc) and how it is compatible with Christianity.
Also, how Christianity is a continuation of the one and same revelation.
I also think the Pope’s work on how faith and reason go hand in hand may be of use.

I hope this helps, as you say he is a scientific minded person.

P.S my view is not a Catholic perspective.