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CyrilSebastian
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Today at Sunday Mass All Are Welcome was used as a recessional hymn.
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CatholicZ09
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Seems odd to use it as a recessional. I always heard it used as a processional.
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CyrilSebastian
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Code:
At the church here *All Are Welcome* was always used as a processional hymn.
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Cat
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I don’t know why I never responded to this, but since it’s only been a few months (wow, time flies!), I think it’s OK to respond now.
No, we were NOT Protestants who were interested in the Catholic faith!
We were at Mass because we had been kicked out of our Evangelical Protestant church, and we were trying to obey the command of the Lord in Hebrews 10:23-25 to “not forsake assembling ourselves together.”
We could NOT go back to any Protestant church after what happened to us. As we were fleeing that church after getting told to “go,” I actually had a vision of a huge Bible crumbling like layers of mica, and I knew that this vision meant that sola Scriptura was an evil lie that had its origin in hell with Satan.
So we’re talking a SERIOUS ousting here, not just two Protestants who got ticked off because the church executive board decided to buy blue carpeting instead of brown (believe it or not, some Protestants leave churches over issues this trivial, not necessarily because of the carpet, but because of the attitudes that come out of hiding during the debates over the carpet color).
So after several months of not attending any church, I was convicted in my soul that even though we were still in shock and grieving over what had happened to us, that we still needed to obey Jesus and seek out fellowship with other Christians. Even though we didn’t believe in the teachings of the Catholic Church (what we THOUGHT the teachings were), we believed that Catholics were true Christians and therefore, it was appropriate for us to associate with them during their Mass. So we went to Mass.
And like I said, songs like “All Are Welcome” were extremely helpful to making us feel welcome in, what was to us, a completely foreign place. Even though a lot of Catholics on CAF make statements that “the OF Mass is sooooooo Protestant,” they are off by a thousand miles. To an Evangelical Protestant, which is the majority of Protestants in the U.S. today, the most contemporary OF Mass appears like an ancient ritualistic ceremony, and very little in it is recognizable to Evangelical Protestants, other than the Bible readings, the Lord’s Prayer, and…yes, the TRADITIONAL hymns! We used many of the traditional hymns in Evangelical “traditional” worship services. We had never, ever heard ANY of the “contemporary” Catholic hymns in Evangelical Protestant worship services. So we assumed that these were the “traditional Catholic hymns!”
Boy, were we silly, weren’t we?
But my point is, these pretty and singable songs (easy for Evangelical Protestants to sing) were very comforting to us, much more so than the traditional hymns that reminded us of all that we had left behind when we were ousted.
And my main point is, we were not seeking to become Catholic. We were just there to obey the Lord Jesus.
And the hymn is NOT all about us instead of worshipping God. The hymn is about how God welcomes us. In other words, the hymn celebrates one of God’s attributes. That IS worship of God.
I think that people need to stop being so literal and use their creative side instead of the logical side. Also, learn how to read poetry. When the poet says, “the fog comes in on little cat feet,” they are not saying that fog is a cat. Many hymns, modern and ancient, use poetic language, and people singing the hymn need to put on their Poetry Cap and read beyond the literal meaning.
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CyrilSebastian
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Cat, A very fine statement:
The hymn is about how God welcomes us.
The hymn is about how God welcomes us.
:yup::clapping::tiphat::tiphat:
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Cat
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The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that this hymn is actually one of the most powerful and most CATHOLIC hymns that we can sing.
The reason why many Protestants and also non-Christians become Catholic is because they realize that the Catholic Church is “Home.”
We see this over and over again on CAF and in other places where new Catholics excitedly share their “homecoming”; they actually use that exact word or some variation of “coming home” or “being home.”
My husband and I have been Catholic for ten years now, and we still have a definite sense of being “home.”
Scott and Kimberly Hahn have written a very popular book called Rome Sweet Home.
And when one is home, they are “welcome.” Think about going to your home, either your home with your spouse, or your childhood home where your parents live. There is a definite real “welcome” waiting for you at home. Yes, some unfortunate people have a home that is non-welcoming, but those people are constantly searching for whatever is needed to make their home a “welcoming” place, whether it be a better marriage, a happier situation with their children, a parent who does not abuse them, etc.
Home is all about being welcome!
When Protestants, especially Evangelical Protestants, attend a Catholic Church, most have no idea what to expect, and many are quite fearful of being exposed to something “anti-Christ.” The sense of being “home” here on this earth doesn’t really exist for Evangelical Protestants, who believe that “the Church” is not a real entity, but merely a way to describe all those who have believed and currently believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
So imagine their surprise and delight when they enter the Catholic Church and recognize that they are being “welcomed home” by not only fellow Christians, but by the saints and angels that are in attendance at Mass, and also by Jesus Christ Himself, Truly Present in the Eucharist (which Evangelical Protestants can only stare at and long for)!
Of course, many Evangelical Protestants run right out the door and deny their “feelings” because they have been taught all their lives that Catholicism is not Christianity. But occasionally (more often than we think), the Evangelical Protestant will hang around because it feels darned good to be “home” and to be “welcomed home” instead of constantly being on the “church search” for the perfect church where they can “be fed.” That church search ends when they realize that “all are welcome in the Catholic Church” and that God Himself is holding out His arms and waiting to welcome them home!
I doubt that cradle Catholics ever experience any of this, because they have always been “home”. I ask that Catholics please stop obsessing about “poor theology” and “me-centered words,” and try to realize that many Protestants find the hymn “All Are Welcome” a tremendous message of joy and hope, because the Holy Spirit can use this hymn to whisper to them, “Welcome home, child, to the Catholic Church, the Very Church that Jesus, your Savior, established here on this earth! Join us and be home.”
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VAC
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Could you elaborate on these obvious theological reasons?
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VAC
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This song used to be played every week when our parish was new and still meeting in a local school cafeteria. I still use it on occasion in the music group I lead for an early morning mass. If it is theologically unsound, I would like a clear explanation of why, and if valid I would take it out of our song bank. For the record, our priest has expressed a preference for hymns rather than the mass propers.
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ProVobis
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That’s his prerogative and I feel most do prefer hymns. I go to several churches but I only know of one that uses the Entrance and Communion antiphons at all. It does seem to add something special to that Mass, sets the theme, etc. but that’s my opinion.
And for the record, I don’t have anything against “All Are Welcome.” It’s probably one of the better songs on YouTube these days.
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Generic_Name
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Cat
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I didn’t say that.
And the key word is “suggested.” Not “required,” but “suggested.” There are options, and those parish priests who opt to use a hymn instead of/or in addition to the Entrance antiphon are not choosing an “inferior” option.
I’m glad you recognize that it is your opinion that the propers add to the Mass. It is my opinion that enthusiastically-sung/played HYMNS add to the Mass. Both of our opinions are valid.
In my parish, the priests often use both the propers (recited) and the hymns. Why not? May as well go for it all.
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ProVobis
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That was my word and it’s not official. I believe the allowance is for a “hymn of similar spirit.” But that to me means at least someone has to check the antiphon to make a reasonable determination of whether the hymn does fit with the spirit of the antiphon. I don’t see where it gives a carte blanche allowance for any hymn that suits the mood of the instrumentalist that day.
But going back to the song itself, I notice today that the Vatican changed its “welcome” word in English to “provide for” in one of the synod documents. Hmmmm.
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revert_jen
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I have no idea what the previous poster’s theological problems with the song are, but here are mine, FWIW:
Overall: The song is about us. We’re going to do this and that, and it doesn’t say that we’re given the ability to do it by God, or that we’re doing it for God, or that God is really all that involved in the process, except in the second half of verse 2. The rest all seems to be about how great (in earthly, humanitarian terms) we either are or are going to be.
we have not built the Church, God did.
Love can dwell anywhere. We don’t have an exclusive on it.
This isn’t a theological problem, but it’s a bit twee, and children may know how to forgive, but generally I haven’t seen a huge ability to tell people about how.
The Love of Christ is for more than just ending divisions, but this is OK, except it’s the first mention of God in the song.
This is true, and probably the best line in the song.
It’s possible that this is just meaningless, but if it’s not, it is certainly very ambiguous. To be fair, I think the problem is just that the author was paying more attention to rhythm and rhyme than content at this point. However, it could reasonably be interpreted to mean that people were having a new (i.e. different from what God has revealed) idea of what God’s reign entails.
It’s going so well (except for the thing about us building the house) until we get to “where peace and justice meet.” If we mean God’s justice, that seems inappropriate, since the Eucharist is an act of God’s mercy. None of us deserves to receive Christ in the Eucharist, and it’s not God’s justice that allows us to receive Him. It’s God’s mercy. If it’s human justice, how is that even relevant here? I thought we were talking about the Eucharist?
This may be the part people have the most problem with. First, there should really be a comma after Christ. (Sorry, I’m a grammar weenie.) Without the comma, it sounds like we are saying, “as we share (in Christ) the feast that frees us” With the comma, we are saying “As we share in Christ, Who is the feast that frees us,” which is lots better.
But the real problem is that it sounds like we are saying all are welcome to share the Eucharist. It’s not exactly saying that really, but in practice it sounds like it is.
Verse 4 is pretty good all through.
Verse 5 is pretty terrible stylistically all through. The main theological problem with it is that it sounds like all of the “visions” of anyone in the Church are true, and within Christ. It’s just not true. I certainly wouldn’t want all of my own “visions” to be heard, loved, treasured, taught, and claimed. It gives the idea that all things are true, which is simply not true. For example, I think that there are Catholics who have the “vision” that you have to be an actual member of the Church to get to Heaven. This is contrary to what the Church teaches (CCC #1260). Should I love, treasure, teach, and claim that vision? Of course not. All people are made in the image and likeness of God, and should be treasured. That does not mean that all of their ideas should be treasured.
Anyway, it’s not my least-favorite hymn, especially if you don’t get to verse 5, but there are issues with it. I don’t know that I personally would call them “obvious theological problems,” but there are issues that should perhaps be taken into account when deciding how frequently to sing the hymn.
Ideally, a Catholic composer would compose a different hymn that was just as welcoming while being more about God, unambiguous theologically, and better poetry. Personally, I don’t have the skills. It’s always easier to be a critic than an artist.
–Jen
P.S. To the poster’s original question, we don’t use it in my current parish, but we did in my previous one.
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catholictiger
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not my home parish, so glad
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catholictiger
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I hope that we can begin in our Churches to start to remove some of the problematic hymnals, or at-least stop playing hymns that are theologically problematic. Music is prayer, what we pray we believe, I don’t want us praying something that is theologically wrong.
Remember the phrase
Lex orandi, lex credendi. the law of prayer is the law of belief.
If we are not careful what we sing we will risk undermining our own Catholic beliefs.
I hope that Churches begin to incorporate things like the Lumen Christi Missal (along with the new hymnal) so that we know what we sing is in line with Catholic belief.
Remember the phrase
Lex orandi, lex credendi. the law of prayer is the law of belief.
If we are not careful what we sing we will risk undermining our own Catholic beliefs.
I hope that Churches begin to incorporate things like the Lumen Christi Missal (along with the new hymnal) so that we know what we sing is in line with Catholic belief.
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CyrilSebastian
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Revert_jen, Thank you for describing the verses of All Are Welcome.
:tiphat::tiphat::tiphat::tiphat::tiphat:
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Cat
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This decision is not ours to make. The authority to make decisions about Mass music option rests with the priest. Our duty is to obey our priest and not undermine his decision by thinking, “He should be using antiphons, not hymns.” The Church gives him both options.
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