All Catholics going to the bad place

[PaladinSword]

I was attempting to share my wonderful conversion experience with a person I met on the bus who was raised catholic but fallen away. The bus driver rudely interrupts me and interjects that all Catholics are going to hell because they don’t accept Jesus as lord and savior. I tried defending the faith and ended conversation when it started turning into an arguement. Then the guy I met goes on to say how Fatima and the miracle of the sun wad UFO phenomena. Between fundamentalist evangelical Protestantism and the history channel feeding us pure lies. How can I better defend the one true faith!? This is getting ridiculous. I can’t believe I used to believe in ancient astronaut theory myself. I have had so many opportunities to defend the faith and promote the gospel lately and I fail almost so much I’m starting to disengage and wonder if it’s becoming sinful.

 

[odile53]

The Catholic Church has been around for 2100 years roughly, and has withstood all sorts of bizarre claims, on top of all the persecution that She has ultimately prevailed. What I do with virulent anti-Catholics is this: I appeal to their sense of open-mindedness, and specifically DON’T answer myself. Most people really don’t like it when it’s insinuated that they are close-minded or badly misinformed, and really don’t know what to say when they are asked if they know what the Church really has to say on such and such a topic. Sparking their curiosity rather than challenging their statements seems to get them to at least hunt down a little thinking for themselves, or a little nudge toward some research.

 

[PaladinSword]

The Catholic Church has been around for 2100 years roughly, and has withstood all sorts of bizarre claims, on top of all the persecution that She has ultimately prevailed. What I do with virulent anti-Catholics is this: I appeal to their sense of open-mindedness, and specifically DON’T answer myself. Most people really don’t like it when it’s insinuated that they are close-minded or badly misinformed, and really don’t know what to say when they are asked if they know what the Church really has to say on such and such a topic. Sparking their curiosity rather than challenging their statements seems to get them to at least hunt down a little thinking for themselves, or a little nudge toward some research.

Thank you. It’s hard to handle with grace and not take attacks personally. This reminds me I should start asking them why they believe the bible and where they think it comes from. The canon of scripture is a very good ammo for this kind of stuff.

 

[Church_Militant]

I was attempting to share my wonderful conversion experience with a person I met on the bus who was raised catholic but fallen away. The bus driver rudely interrupts me and interjects that all Catholics are going to hell because they don’t accept Jesus as lord and savior. I tried defending the faith and ended conversation when it started turning into an argument. Then the guy I met goes on to say how Fatima and the miracle of the sun wad UFO phenomena.

Boy, you got two winners for the price of one.

To the driver: “Really, where does it say that in the Bible? Please show me any passage that specifically says that.” He can’t because there isn’t one.

To first guy: Some say the same of Ezekiel’s wheel, and yet if you are a Bible Christian you accept that as fact. Yet at Fatima there were thousands of witnesses and all manner of documentation.

Between fundamentalist evangelical Protestantism and the history channel feeding us pure lies. How can I better defend the one true faith!? This is getting ridiculous. I can’t believe I used to believe in ancient astronaut theory myself. I have had so many opportunities to defend the faith and promote the gospel lately and I fail almost so much I’m starting to disengage and wonder if it’s becoming sinful.

Study. One of the best resources can be found here at CA.

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Thank you. It’s hard to handle with grace and not take attacks personally. This reminds me I should start asking them why they believe the bible and where they think it comes from. The canon of scripture is a very good ammo for this kind of stuff.

Sure it is, but don’t ever go there because all it does is cripple your witness. I have found that I can share while praying internally and handle it all a lot better, and get better results.

Always remember 1st Peter 3:8-17
8] Finally, all of you, have unity of spirit, sympathy, love of the brethren, a tender heart and a humble mind.
9] Do not return evil for evil or reviling for reviling; but on the contrary bless, for to this you have been called, that you may obtain a blessing.
10] For “He that would love life
and see good days,
let him keep his tongue from evil
and his lips from speaking guile;
11] let him turn away from evil and do right;
let him seek peace and pursue it.
12] For the eyes of the Lord are upon the righteous,
and his ears are open to their prayer.
But the face of the Lord is against those that do evil.”
13] Now who is there to harm you if you are zealous for what is right?
14] But even if you do suffer for righteousness’ sake, you will be blessed. Have no fear of them, nor be troubled,
15] but in your hearts reverence Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence;
16] and keep your conscience clear, so that, when you are abused, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.
17] For it is better to suffer for doing right, if that should be God’s will, than for doing wrong.

Off to get ready for Mass and remember you there. Just PM me if you need anything more.

 

[BVMFatima]

I was attempting to share my wonderful conversion experience with a person I met on the bus who was raised catholic but fallen away. The bus driver rudely interrupts me and interjects that all Catholics are going to hell because they don’t accept Jesus as lord and savior. I tried defending the faith and ended conversation when it started turning into an arguement. Then the guy I met goes on to say how Fatima and the miracle of the sun wad UFO phenomena. Between fundamentalist evangelical Protestantism and the history channel feeding us pure lies. How can I better defend the one true faith!? This is getting ridiculous. I can’t believe I used to believe in ancient astronaut theory myself. I have had so many opportunities to defend the faith and promote the gospel lately and I fail almost so much I’m starting to disengage and wonder if it’s becoming sinful.

The Catholic Church has been here for 2000 years defending the faith from Gnostics, Pagans, Jews and so fourth. The Early Church faced many persecution from defending the faith. I give you credit for sticking up for the Church.

1 Tim 3:15 mentions the Church is the Pillar and Bulwark of the truth. What other Church can claim that besides the one who’s been here for 2000 years?

1 Peter 3:15 mentions to always be prepared to make a defense for the hope that is in you.

When I first came to the Catholic Church at 13, I remember being told I was going to hell for being Catholic. I was told from my whole family since I was the only Catholic, I was told by my old pastor, and it really put tears in my eyes because I knew I could not defend the faith. I learned from EWTN how to defend the faith and I thank them for that. When people like the Protestants mention Catholics go to hell, its tradition. Yup, the naughty T word protestants hate, but thats all it is, is tradition. Why is it Protestant tradition? Because its not in scripture nore early Church teaching. It would be silly for the Early Church saying they were going to hell for following the Church wouldent it?

These Protestant traditions come from John Calvin, Martin Luther etc. Who protested against the Church, the true flock. When people make such evil claims, remember its just man made doctrine ( and they love to claim we Catholics are followers of man made doctrine ). Give it your best shot to defend the faith better than you have before. Think about what you did not mention to them, and study Catholic apologetics. I suggest John Margitioni, Steve Ray, and tim Staples

God Bless you, and Thank you for defending the Church,
BVMFatima

 

[Linusthe2nd]

I was attempting to share my wonderful conversion experience with a person I met on the bus who was raised catholic but fallen away. The bus driver rudely interrupts me and interjects that all Catholics are going to hell because they don’t accept Jesus as lord and savior. I tried defending the faith and ended conversation when it started turning into an arguement. Then the guy I met goes on to say how Fatima and the miracle of the sun wad UFO phenomena. Between fundamentalist evangelical Protestantism and the history channel feeding us pure lies. How can I better defend the one true faith!? This is getting ridiculous. I can’t believe I used to believe in ancient astronaut theory myself. I have had so many opportunities to defend the faith and promote the gospel lately and I fail almost so much I’m starting to disengage and wonder if it’s becoming sinful.

The media conglomoration has emboldened the Christian haters. The persecution has just begun, get used to it.

 

[midori]

My husband was chatting with the local Assembly of God pastor a while back ago, and the pastor asked him, “What religion are you?” My husband hates those kinds of questions, but he responded, “I was raised Methodist, and my wife is Catholic.”

“Too bad everyone from all those made-up religions are going to hell,” the pastor told him.



Yeah, you get some real gems out there…

 

[JonNC]

My husband was chatting with the local Assembly of God pastor a while back ago, and the pastor asked him, “What religion are you?” My husband hates those kinds of questions, but he responded, “I was raised Methodist, and my wife is Catholic.”

"Too bad everyone from all those made-up religions are going to hell," the pastor told him.



Yeah, you get some real gems out there…

It is remarkable how this pastor has such insights into how God grants His grace.

Jon

 

[mab23]

What church militant said

also I would say that is a very unChristian thing to tell someone they are going to hell

I would tell him that if his education comes from the History Channel then he has no place to interrupt without looking daft

 

[PaladinSword]

OP here.

Sorry didn’t mean to abandon the thread. Thank you all for the support! Thank you especially to BVMfatima and Church Militant.

This has been somewhat difficult as I’ve noticed this kind of stuff is becoming to be a recouring theme in some of my discussions with people.

I will try to apply some of your advice and see what happens.

Any further suggestion would still be appreciated.

 

[BVMFatima]

OP here.

Sorry didn’t mean to abandon the thread. Thank you all for the support! Thank you especially to BVMfatima and Church Militant.

This has been somewhat difficult as I’ve noticed this kind of stuff is becoming to be a recouring theme in some of my discussions with people.

I will try to apply some of your advice and see what happens.

Any further suggestion would still be appreciated.

You are welcome

My advice is to always be prepared, study Catholic apologetics, stay strong, and pray for those who persecute you and the Church. If you ever have any questions, feel free to PM me, I’m always open!

God Bless You,
BVMFatima

 

[Nan_S]

Catholics are raised learning whole passages in context. Christians like the bus driver were raised learning memory verses by chapter and verse number. It makes them feel like they are speaking with authority if they can cite numbers. Knowing that he is on that level, I would have a few chapter and verse citations ready to drop back on him. Here is my favorite answer for the “never accepted Christ” challenge.

Long reply to bus driver: Tell me, what does it mean to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior? How do you think that is done?
<answer: altar call, sinner’s prayer> And what makes you think Catholics don’t do that? Have you ever been inside a Catholic church?
<answer: no, but I know someone who used to be Catholic> Then you got your information from an unreliable source.
<answer: I’ve known Catholics all my life and they’ve all told me they don’t make the sinner’s prayer> That’s because you asked the question the wrong way; we just call it by different name than you do. Every Catholic is asked to make an altar call and profess Jesus as their Lord and Savior by the time they are teenagers; it’s the heart of a big formal ceremony we call confirmation. Oh, and by the way, we use a real altar. I’ve never quite understood how someone can have an altar call without an altar.
<answer: oh, I know there’s no altar, we just call it that> Do you see what I’m saying about terminology? You use names you don’t really mean, and then jump to conclusions when you don’t hear the answer you expect.
Besides, it takes a lot more than just proclaiming your belief to get into heaven. Matthew 7:21-23 says belief alone is not enough. Matthew 25:31-46 and James 2:17-19 verify it.

*Quick reply to bus driver: *Then you don’t know what you’re talking about. We do take Jesus as Lord and savior, but it takes a lot more than just that to get into heaven. Matthew 7:21-23 says your answer is insufficient. Matthew 25:31-46 and James 2:17-19 verify it.

Matthew 7:21-23
"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’ Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.’

Matthew 25:31-46
[The sheep and the goats get separated and judged.]
Then [the goats] will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’

James 2:17-19
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead. Indeed someone might say, “You have faith and I have works.” Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works. You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

My husband was chatting with the local Assembly of God pastor a while back ago, and the pastor asked him, “What religion are you?” My husband hates those kinds of questions, but he responded, “I was raised Methodist, and my wife is Catholic.”

“Too bad everyone from all those made-up religions are going to hell,” the pastor told him.



Yeah, you get some real gems out there…

Oh yes, they are quite certain of that.

 

[sulliaa8]

I was attempting to share my wonderful conversion experience with a person I met on the bus who was raised catholic but fallen away. The bus driver rudely interrupts me and interjects that all Catholics are going to hell because they don’t accept Jesus as lord and savior. I tried defending the faith and ended conversation when it started turning into an arguement. Then the guy I met goes on to say how Fatima and the miracle of the sun wad UFO phenomena. Between fundamentalist evangelical Protestantism and the history channel feeding us pure lies. How can I better defend the one true faith!? This is getting ridiculous. I can’t believe I used to believe in ancient astronaut theory myself. I have had so many opportunities to defend the faith and promote the gospel lately and I fail almost so much I’m starting to disengage and wonder if it’s becoming sinful.

 Sorry for jumping in late, but I wanted to say I understand you feelings. It does seem like Christianity as whole and Catholicism in particular is under assault daily. Seeing the world with the eyes of faith is tough and as a convert I have thought many times how easy it would be to just rejoin the world and not care, but never seriously.  I try to remember that Christ said we would be persecuted for his name and as I like to point out to fellow Christians who hate the Church, he included persecution by fellow "Christians" in that as well. As an example, my wife attended an AoG church on a weeknight and overheard a woman say she was glad her daughter died from cancer before her Catholic husband converted her, I could not believe that! Anyway, in all this I know firsthand we tend to despair a bit about how difficult our faith seems but I always remember the Holy Fathers words  "The world offers you comfort, but you were not made for comfort; you were made for greatness." And that’s found through the Church.
  As for what you can do, first is to remain strong and resist despair. Second, as some have pointed out, find answers, there will always be more questions than you have answers in the beginning though. Make note of them and find the answer, if not for them then for yourself, this forum has been invaluable for me and many. Also, if you have the time and inclination, Frank Sheed’s Theology for Beginner’s is an awesome resource to strengthen you foundation and gives larger view of the theological principles of the Church. Last, pray, pray, pray, mostly for patience, compassion, and wisdom. The people you encounter are attacking the body of Christ and as angry or upset as we get we need to remember that this body does not rise or fall on misguided opinion, so don’t get upset. 
  Sorry for the long post but as I said I understand you feelings and it’s good to see that others experience the same things I have and still do sometimes.

 

[Rosinante]

I was attempting to share my wonderful conversion experience with a person I met on the bus who was raised catholic but fallen away. The bus driver rudely interrupts me and interjects that all Catholics are going to hell because they don’t accept Jesus as lord and savior. I tried defending the faith and ended conversation when it started turning into an arguement. Then the guy I met goes on to say how Fatima and the miracle of the sun wad UFO phenomena. Between fundamentalist evangelical Protestantism and the history channel feeding us pure lies. How can I better defend the one true faith!? This is getting ridiculous. I can’t believe I used to believe in ancient astronaut theory myself.*** I have had so many opportunities to defend the faith and promote the gospel lately and I fail almost so much I’m starting to disengage and wonder if it’s becoming sinful***.

I don’t know about ‘sinful’, but it is just a bit…shall we say, unexpected… if not inconsistent, with the Knights of Columbus you boast in your sig.–especially 4th degree.

Sir Knight… Sir Brother Knight…please do not sit idly by, when Mother Church is assaulted. Stand up for your Faith; stand up for Christ; stand up for the Truth, Sir.

You don’t exactly need to ‘throw down’ with ignoramaces–you don’t even need to educate them–but at the very least, voice your objection, and state your grounds therefore, as clearly and as stearnly as possible.

I suggest you revisit your ‘degrees’, Sir Brother Knight, and refresh your memory as to what you swore to do, by your faith, by Christ, and by your Mother Church.

VIVAT JESUS!

 

[PaladinSword]

I don’t know about ‘sinful’, but it is just a bit…shall we say, unexpected… if not inconsistent, with the Knights of Columbus you boast in your sig.–especially 4th degree.

Sir Knight… Sir Brother Knight…please do not sit idly by, when Mother Church is assaulted. Stand up for your Faith; stand up for Christ; stand up for the Truth, Sir.

You don’t exactly need to ‘throw down’ with ignoramaces–you don’t even need to educate them–but at the very least, voice your objection, and state your grounds therefore, as clearly and as stearnly as possible.

I suggest you revisit your ‘degrees’, Sir Brother Knight, and refresh your memory as to what you swore to do, by your faith, by Christ, and by your Mother Church.

VIVAT JESUS!

perhaps I gave the wrong impression. I am very active in the faith I am practically obsessed. I study reliable theology and apologetics every moment I have the chance. I am just getting frustrated by the haters and bible bashers that try and lure me into an argument. I’m trying to be a witness of our catholic faith and the one true God. I never cave or compromise my position but it is getting frustrating when people seem like they won’t listen to reason and especially rude when I am having a private conversation with someone to just interject that all of us are going to hell.

I was having a discussion with a friend who Is a devout catholic about st Nicholas and some controversy regarding his actions at a certain council. Then a lady asked me “are you catholic?” and I said “why yes I love being catholic” and she says something like “well do I feel sorry for you!” and runs off.

 

[Rosinante]

^^^follow up:

Some good pointers above, but you will note a common theme–there are many suggestions of asking the bus driver questions. The key principle here, is to take the charge of the encounter–give it right back to him. Respond with pointed questions–keep at it; do not back down.

e.g.–

Why do you say that?

What do you base that on?

Which passages in the bible are you expressly referring to?

Whe did you get your bible? that is, who figured which books were in, which were not?

What happened to Chirstians before Martin Luther came along?

Why didn’t Christ write a bible, and hand them to his Aposltes?

Why did he pick apostles at all?

Why isn’t the Bible prophized in the bible?

Why isn’t sola scriptura?

Why do you believe Martin Luther, and John Calvin, over all the Bishops, Popes, Saints, martyrs, Apostles, Evangelists, etc., who spread the Faith prior to the Bible coming into being around 381 AD, upto and through 1500 A.D.?

I can tell you what his reaction will be–and you can probably guess it–but the point is, you exploit his ignorance, you communicate to him very clearly that when he runs that kind of smack, he can expect to be called out for it, and you take the initiative of insuring that the next time…he won’t make the next guy feel uncomfortable.

VIVAT JESUS!

 

[Rosinante]

perhaps I gave the wrong impression. I am very active in the faith I am practically obsessed. I study reliable theology and apologetics every moment I have the chance. I am just getting frustrated by the haters and bible bashers that try and lure me into an argument. I’m trying to be a witness of our catholic faith and the one true God. I never cave or compromise my position but it is getting frustrating when people seem like they won’t listen to reason and especially rude when I am having a private conversation with someone to just interject that all of us are going to hell.

I was having a discussion with a friend who Is a devout catholic about st Nicholas and some controversy regarding his actions at a certain council. Then a lady asked me “are you catholic?” and I said “why yes I love being catholic” and she says something like “well do I feel sorry for you!” and runs off.

I understand the frustration; it never gets easier. But when you ‘engage’ in a confrontation, what gnaws at you worst after the fact, is what was left on the table.

…and worst still, is that that bus driver probably made similar comments many times befor you, and no one called him out on it.

…and he’ll probably make similar comments again, until someone finally does call him out.

Hence, I recommend a striaght forward approach.

As for former catholics…they’re the hardest to deal with–because they think they know, because of their former involvment in the Church–but you know they don’t; else they wouldn’t ahve such a callloused atitude.

VIVAT JESUS!

 

[Rosinante]

One more suggestion–watch Cristeros, the movie, if you get a chance. Very inspirational, and puts things into perspective.

VIVAT JESUS!

 

[wittgenstein]

I would not be offended or find my faith challenged. I’d respond charitably to such sillyness. For example, I have black hair. If someone said," You have such ugly bright red hair!" I would not be offended. I’d simply think,“what a nut”! And then gently try to wean him away from his neurosis.