ALL CHRISTIANS: How do you answer: "It doesn't matter which religion you 'pick'"

[whatisthetruth]

Jimmy
The problem is, that many non-Catholic Christians or Protestant religions are taught false anti-Catholic propaganda where disinformation is falsely preached. This occurs using lies, deception and false information and taking the bible out of context and by ignoring history. In many cases, their behavior is heretical and not much difference then the early heretics in the first, second and third century, Jews and Pagans, who were attempting to destroy Christianity. Many false anti-Catholic nonsense that is preached today against the Catholic Church was addressed in the early heresies (1st, 2nd & 3rd centuries) and yet they persist today.

These heresies persist today because by their nature, all non-Catholic Christians are protestant and are still protesting, instead of focusing on Jesus. They are taking there eyes of Jesus.

on behalf of the non catholics which caused you to feel the way you do, I apologize. I would not want anyone to feel that I am attacking or lying about them.

That kind of attitude does not represent the Jesus I know

However, their religions are limited and only the Roman Catholic Church contains the fullness of Christianity. If you want to dedicate your life to Christ, there is no better way to do this then as a Roman Catholic

I once believed that too.

Other Non-Catholic Christian Churches allow one to get a small taste of everlasting life and **a limited exposure **to the One we call Christ. They will never know the true meaning of Christianity. Most other non-Catholic Christian religions impart to their members a small taste of the love and life of Christ.

Do you believe, like I once did, if one is not Roman Catholic they are hell bound??

instead of focusing on Jesus. They are taking there eyes off Jesus

I am so sorry you feel that way. I certainly don’t. I feel the love of God and Jesus all over my life, especially when I am attending Sunday worship service.

My passion is to show God and Jesus how much I love him back

May I ask you to read my “tired of debating? lets agree on Jesus” thread and then tell me in my thread my focus is not on Jesus

Thank you

God bless

truth

 

[MarcoPolo]

Let me ask you a couple questions to see how strong your relationship is and if you are right with God.

“Have you come to a place in your life that if you were to die right now, you know for sure that you will go to heaven?”

If you are not sure, I have some good news for you,

The bible lets you know that you can be sure…

You sound a lot like Kirk Cameron. And I appreciate your long post, but the non-believer will not get past the point I quoted above.
I state again, unfortunately, quoting the Bible to a non-believer is unconvincing. He does not care what the Bible says. He will say, “Oh…the BIBLE promises me eternal salvation…how nice.”

Incidentally, that passage from 1 John tells us if we are genuine believers (which includes following Christ…cf. James 2:20-24) we will be justified. That is of course, true. It does not say we are guaranteed to remain justified (cf. Ez 18:24, Gal 1:6, 1 Cor 15:2, etc…), so I could not even use your step-by-step on a Bible-believer.

 

[Blizzard_Wolf]

I think that it does matter… in fact, I think it matters a lot.

The religion that one has (or, in some cases doesn’t have) says a great deal about oneself. Religion should be an honest, devoted reflection of what a person knows to be true… to suggest that one’s choice of religion is inconsequential suggests also that truth is ultimately subjective (and that’s largely bs, if you’ll pardon my phrasing).

 

[Armyof1Faith]

Ok, this thread is more geared toward how you would respond to a particular type of non-Christian. Typically, they call themselves “Spiritual”. They believe the main reason people are in any particular religion is because they were raised that way. They also believe one’s religion should be like picking out something on a menu…it doesn’t really matter cuz it’s an individual choice. Yet when you hear them talk more and more, it is clear they are anti-Christian.

I’m not looking for an argument for choosing Catholicism vs. a Protestant denom. (so let the ecumenism fly! :grouphug: ) I’m asking all of us “Christians” to address how you respond to this:

It doesn’t matter which religion you pick.

** Well I’d ask that person, “Why would you choose just any religion or create your own when there was one created by a divine individual who happens to have thousands of years of miraculous evidence and historical accuracy to defend itself? Especially when there is one still in existance from the time of that creation that has been guided by the Holy Spirit and united for that entire time? The very foundation of law has been derived from it, and all order as we know it owes it’s existance to It.” =] Now, had they asked which religion, obviously I would tell them Christianity, more specifically Catholicism. I think Jimmy and _Whatisthetruth have the idea on why.
**

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi MarcoPolo,

I appreciate your long post,

I am glad you appreciated the biblical illustration of God’s plan of salvation.

but the non-believer will not get past the point I quoted above.
I state again, unfortunately, quoting the Bible to a non-believer is unconvincing. He does not care what the Bible says. He will say, “Oh…the BIBLE promises me eternal salvation…how nice.”

I realize that the process of one believing is not as simple as I hear it I believe it. If I am illustrating the plan I mentioned to someone and they were to say “Oh…the BIBLE promises me eternal salvation…how nice”, well as a presenter I hope I would be sensitive and realize that my message is not being received as I intended. Then it would be time to stop and chage subject of conversation to that which interests Him.

My teacher once said that “a teacher is only as good as the student is willing to listen”.

Incidentally, that passage from 1 John tells us if we are genuine believers (which includes following Christ…cf. James 2:20-24) we will be justified.

Yes it does, the James 2:24 ends

“You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.”

You are right because man can not be trusted to be faithful as the verses, you referred to, God lets the unfaithful know their destiny.
However, let’s remember that God can be trusted with His word, God is always faithful.

When one accepts God’s gift, they also made a commitment to God to follow his will and have a genuine love for wanting to do what God loves.

Unfortunately, in as much as we try, the fact that we are human we will fail and sin. Thank you God for sending your Son Jesus to die on the cross as ransom for all the sins your children will commit,

When we have a genuine hate for doing the things which God hates and when we fail we confess and repent our sins, God will forgive us. That is God’s word.

Having said that let me ask you a question?

Do you believe that there is any way a person who remains
faithful all their life, as I just described, and as they are on thier deathbed, they say a sincere prayer of confession and repentance, not going to heaven?

if the answer is yes, then how is it that person NOT going to heaven?

If you answered no, then that is why I believe we can be sure of salvation should we die in body faithful to God and His will.

MarcoPolo

Below is two video links from the same youth conference. The speaker is Pastor Paul Washer, director of Heart Cry Missionary Society.

I encourage you to listen to Paul with an open heart. He said a few things that drew my attention.

Here is the link to a 3 1/2 minute segment of the video below with a video presentation
youtube.com/watch?v=AYsClDclvf0&feature=related

Here is the link to the full length video youtube.com/watch?v=uuabITeO4l8

Thank you for your time

God bless you,

truth

 

[paarsurrey]

Ok, this thread is more geared toward how you would respond to a particular type of non-Christian. Typically, they call themselves “Spiritual”. They believe the main reason people are in any particular religion is because they were raised that way. They also believe one’s religion should be like picking out something on a menu…it doesn’t really matter cuz it’s an individual choice. Yet when you hear them talk more and more, it is clear they are anti-Christian.
I’m not looking for an argument for choosing Catholicism vs. a Protestant denom. (so let the ecumenism fly! :grouphug: ) I’m asking all of us “Christians” to address how you respond to this:
It doesn’t matter which religion you pick.

Hi

I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim; we believe that the PromisedMessiah (1838-1908) has come. Since we love Jesus and Mary like we love Krishna, Buddha, Zoroaster, Moses, etc and no doubt Muhammad, so we cannot be termed as anti-Christians; ours is true Islam which is pro-Krishna, pro-Buddha, pro-Zoroaster, and pro-Moses, etc. There is no question of being anti any other religions with us. This may surprise many friends here, but that is the principled stance of Ahmadia peaceful Muslims elaborated by no lesser person than the PromisedMessiah1838-1908 himself, which could be checked and confirmed by anyone who loves research, by reading a small book written by him, a hundred years ago:
alislam.org/library/books/Message-of-Peace.pdf

I would somewhat revise your last sentence; it doesn’t matter which religion you are in, if you follow your own religion truthfully and rationally you would understand that PromisedMessiah (1838-1908) has come to unite the entire revealed religions of the world while not becoming anti of any one of them. Love for all, hatred for none.

Thanks

 

[whatisthetruth]

bump

 

[Rocky]

Hi MarcoPolo,

let me ask you a question?

Do you believe that there is any way a person who remains
faithful all their life**, as I just described, and as they are on thier deathbed, they say a sincere prayer of confession and repentance, not going to heaven**?

God bless you,

truth

As a Catholic I believe that when I die if I continue to remain faithful and penitent for my sins I will enter heaven. Knowing my attachment to many things that are of this world, however, I also believe that if I were to die right now I would need the purification taught by the Church in order to fully enter into the beatific vision. And I would be glad to have that purification.

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi Rocky,

Thank you for answereng my question,

Do you believe that there is any way a person who remains faithful all their life, as I just described, and as they are on their deathbed, they say a sincere prayer of confession and repentance, not going to heaven?

As a Catholic I believe that when I die if I continue to remain faithful and penitent for my sins I will enter heaven.

Rocky, you just expressed assurance of salvation. I believe that you believe **God is true to His word **that God will grant the faithful without sin on their soul eternal life.

you continued with…

Knowing my attachment to many things that are of this world,

Like all of us sinners struggle with

however, I also believe that if I were to die right now I would need the purification taught by the Church in order to fully enter into the beatific vision.

“would need the Purification taught by the church”? hmmm. This is what I do not understand. Maybe you can help me understand

And I would be glad to have that purification.

Well I would too, if that is what I needed.

Rocky, in not so many words, when you said “I would need the purification taught by the Church in order to fully enter into the beatific vision”, I see the reason why you do not have assurity of salvation.

Rocky, I like to ask you a question that I have asked on this site but no one has answered.

Before I ask you, imagine with me the last part of Jesus’ life on earth.

Jesus, a innocent man, who done nothing wrong and yet the unbelievers persecuted Him.

He was betrayed by one of His own desciples(Judas), arrested by the soldiers who then beat Him.

Then as Jesus was presented before Pilate, the crowd of unbelievers called for a jailed criminal (Barabas) to be freed and when asked by Pilate what wrong Jesus had done? they chanted loudly “CRUCIFY HIM”

Then Jesus was tortured, beaten, flogged, bloodied, had a crown of thorns stuck in His head and was crucified on the cross.

Why did God sacrifice Jesus to endure such punishement?

I believe the reason is because God loves all of us and does not want us to spend eternity in hell because of the human weakness (sin) you expressed “attachment to many things that are of this world” which I believe we all are guilty of.

And as Jesus was dying on the cross, He said “Father, forgive them”.

With those words I believe Jesus was asking God to forgive you and I of our sins and anyone elses sins who believes in Him

Rocky, in not so many words, when you said “I would need the purification taught by the Church in order to fully enter into the beatific vision”, I see the reason why you do not have assurity of salvation.

My question no one answered yet are

What do you believe Jesus went through all the humiliation, pain, torture and death for?

A) To illustrate God’s love for us so we can be saved by His Blood when we believe in Him, repent and confess to God

B) To have the church give us Purification when we go to confession, confessing and receiving forgiveness from God is not
taught by the RC church

to answer the question, how do I answer: “It doesn’t matter which religion you ‘pick’”

It does not matter as long as the core beliefs of the religion, mainly regarding Jesus, coincide with that of the will of God.

 

[jmcrae]

What do you believe Jesus went through all the humiliation, pain, torture and death for?

To open the door of Heaven for us.

We still have to carry our own crosses through that door, though, since Jesus said, “pick up your cross and follow Me.” Jesus did not promise an easy road. Look at the Sermon on the Mount, and tell me where He says, “Look, I’ll do it all for you; you don’t even have to lift a finger.” No, just the opposite; He is giving us many precepts and many commandments, with no indication of any of them being “optional.”

 

[Rocky]

To open the door of Heaven for us.

We still have to carry our own crosses through that door, though, since Jesus said, “pick up your cross and follow Me.” Jesus did not promise an easy road. Look at the Sermon on the Mount, and tell me where He says, “Look, I’ll do it all for you; you don’t even have to lift a finger.” No, just the opposite; He is giving us many precepts and many commandments, with no indication of any of them being “optional.”

Amen!!
and to whatisthetruth, I am completely assured of the Lord’s love for me. I believe He lived, died and rose again to give not only me but the whole world that assurance. I am not so assured of my continued response to Him, but I have deep faith in His unfailing grace to help me. And the ordinary means of receiving His grace has been provided by the Lord Himself through the Sacraments of the Church.

 

[whatisthetruth]

whatisthetruth

What do you believe Jesus went through all the humiliation, pain, torture and death for?

To open the door of Heaven for us

I agree. But there is more… By the blood of Jesus our sins are forgiven. that is what opens the gates to heaven to us. To those who keep the faith, keep on believing in God and Jesus, in believing by Jesus blood we are saved (the bible says), confess and repent when one sins,
God’s reward for those who remain faithful and endore the “race” of life to the end, God **will save **from the hell fires.

We still have to carry our own crosses through that door,

Yes, we have to carry our cross too just like Jesus did but not through the door to heaven. We have to carry the cross to the door not through.

At the door to heaven I will meet my saviour, I will bow down to him knowing I trusted Him in His word and I accepted the truth of HIs word when I heard it Nov 1999.

I would thank Him for dying on the cross and carrying all my sins I ever committed on His “shoulder”, I would shamefully admit in as much as I hate sin I still fell when temptation was present.
As I began to apologize again as I have been doing all my life and repenting, Jesus stopped me and said,

“because of your faith and trust in me, your sins and iniquities I remember no more”

Then I would see before me the fruit of my labor. As part of His church body, all those people I had an impact on in being a witness to the love and joy of our Lord, to which I anticipate Jesus saying the following…

“Well done, good and faithful servant” welcome home

Jesus did not promise an easy road. Look at the Sermon on the Mount, and tell me where He says, “Look, I’ll do it all for you; you don’t even have to lift a finger.” No, just the opposite; He is giving us many precepts and many commandments, with no indication of any of them being “optional.”

I absolutely agree with you. If I die right now, all my struggles in life, financial debt, family relationship problems, unemployment, bad health, will be carried to the door in heaven.

While I am still living, I still have to carry my cross and deal with life’s struggles just like everyone else. My pastor reminds us quite alot that God NEVER promised a rose garden while we are living on earth

**I am confused, how did you read into what I said about having assurity of salvation also meant an easy road of life by not carrying my cross? . **

They are two different subjects.

Let me ask you jmcrae and Rocky, are you saying, if you were to die right now you do not know for sure if you will spend eternity in heaven?

Am I correct in that assumption? I do not like to assume.

If I am correct, then let me ask you,

How do you think you would feel knowing for sure that eternity with Jesus is yours as long as you remain faithful to Him?

That is why I believe He shed His precious blood and died on the cross.

Put aside the teachings of the church, and look at Jesus and ask him to…

Open the eyes of my heart Lord

click on the link for a video to the song

 

[MarcoPolo]

However, let’s remember that God can be trusted with His word, God is always faithful.

That’s right. Unfortunately, we are not always guaranteed to remain faithful.

Do you believe that there is any way a person who remains
faithful all their life, as I just described, and as they are on thier deathbed, they say a sincere prayer of confession and repentance, not going to heaven?

If you answered no, then that is why I believe we can be sure of salvation should we die in body faithful to God and His will.

I’m sorry, I’m not following this. Of course a person who remains faithful to God all their life and even repents on their deathbed as a bonus should go to heaven. We can have a certain degree of confidence in our salvation. But assuming we are guaranteed to end up in heaven sounds like the sin of presumption the Pharisees exercised.

Where are you getting the idea that a person who comes to Christ is guaranteed to remain faithful? Why else does Scripture tell us in so many places we are saved “if” we remain in Christ? Why was the apostle Paul unsure of his status?

Also, what am I to get out of the video? I watched it for 3+ minutes and didn’t hear anything unusual.

 

[whatisthetruth]

“However, let’s remember that God can be trusted with His word, God is always faithful.”

That’s right.

Good then you agree with me

Unfortunately, we are not always guaranteed to remain faithful.

I absolutely agree with you. And when Satan grabs us and we lose faith or sin, God is mercyful to those who have lost their faith and sincerely recomitt their faith again to Him, God will forgive, He gave us His word

I’m sorry, I’m not following this. Of course a person who remains faithful to God all their life and even repents on their deathbed as a bonus should go to heaven.

What are you not following, you just agreed with me about “a person who remains faithful to God all their life and even repents on their deathbed as a bonus should go to heaven”

Instead of should, I would insert the word will go to heaven, That is God’s promise to those who are faithful.

We can have a certain degree of confidence in our salvation.

Not according to what you just said.

But assuming we are guaranteed to end up in heaven sounds like the sin of presumption the Pharisees exercised.

It seems you are misunderstanding me. Lets try this one more time.

I can not tell anyone and I will not tell that they are guarteed to have eternal life without telling them the reat of the story.

The main point is what we both agree on…

I said

“However, let’s remember that God can be trusted with His word, God is always faithful.”

.

God is faithful to His word, God promises Salvation to those who remain faithful to Him and you agreed with me on that too, except for one word.

you said

Of course a person who remains faithful to God all their life and even repents on their deathbed as a bonus should go to heaven

.

you just agreed with me about "a person who remains faithful to God all their life and even repents on their deathbed as a bonus should

go to heaven"

Instead of should, I would insert the word will go to heaven, That is God’s promise to those who are faithful.

Summary God gives eternal life to only those who remain faithful in Him which we both agree.

Now the problem which you expressed

Where are you getting the idea that a person who comes to Christ is guaranteed to remain faithful?

I never said that a person is guaranteed to remain faithful, please tell me where I said that.
And it is for that reason I quoted you saying …

Scripture tell us in so many places we are saved “if” we remain in Christ?

I agree, IF we remain in Christ. I am not planning leaving and I am sure you are not either. For if we should leave, there is a chance that we may not spend eternity in heaven, but GOd and God only will be the judge of that.

Why was the apostle Paul unsure of his status?

Paul was human like the rest of us. Satan was fighting to win his soul too. Satan had Paul at first when he was Saul persecuting Christians. Paul may of have doubts he was worth because of his past.

Isn’t it good to see people in the bible who had worst past than our own past and God had mercy on them when they repented.

I like Paul’s testimony in
1Timothy:1

15 Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance

: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners (no doubt there)—of whom I am the worst.
16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life.
17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Also, what am I to get out of the video? I watched it for 3+ minutes and didn’t hear anything unusual.

I am sorry you did not get anything out of the video. Some songs touch people in different ways.

Type in Jesus Painting in the you tube search field.

It is a beautiful drawing of Jesus to the song “Above All”

God and your family in 2008

whatisthetruth

[/QUOTE]

 

[MarcoPolo]

I never said that a person is guaranteed to remain faithful, please tell me where I said that.

Like this for instance.

The bible lets you know that you can be sure…

I think our problem comes in the notion that we ourselves can misjudge our status. In order for us to be “sure” of our salvation requires a judgement in the eyes of man. In the eyes of God if we are faithful, then we will be saved.

I have confidence that I am properly following Christ. I cannot express 100% certainty as your language suggests. I maintain a sense of “fear and trembling” as we are warned. I am not God and do not profess to infallibly judge the soul of anyone still living, including myself. There are many people who believe they are faithful, that are “sure” that they always will be faithful, but deceive themselves. You agree no?

Ultimately, I think we are pretty much on the same page.

If you want to reply, a short answer is appreciated. I am finding it difficult to find your points among all the color-coded volumes of text.

 

[whatisthetruth]

If you want to reply, a short answer is appreciated. I am finding it difficult to find your points among all the color-coded volumes of text.

I will try to keep my comments short, I reply in green to your comments which are in black

whatisthetruth…
I never said that a person is guaranteed to remain faithful, please tell me where I said that.

MarcoPolo, Don’t you believe Paul is giving us God’s promise of salvation to the faithful in his testimony in 1Timothy I quoted?

Did you see the Jesus Painting?

An awesome song with the painting, “Above All”

God

truth

 

[jmcrae]

Absolutely agree, that is why the faithful need to be in a continued state of repentance. Not a day goes by that I do not commit at least one sin.

Is this just hyperbole, or are you for real? There is no reason for a sincere Christian to fall into sin every day, especially if you are repenting of your sins when you confess them (meaning, resolving with a sincere heart to avoid any situation where that same sin could occur again, and then making sure to change your life’s circumstances so that that same temptation cannot return to you).

 

[Delraek]

Is this just hyperbole, or are you for real? There is no reason for a sincere Christian to fall into sin every day, especially if you are repenting of your sins when you confess them (meaning, resolving with a sincere heart to avoid any situation where that same sin could occur again, and then making sure to change your life’s circumstances so that that same temptation cannot return to you).

She might be talking about venial sins like “white lies” or selfishness or pride. I know I can “fall” into these sins very easily! There’s a guy who works in my dept and he seems to get preferential treatment because he whines a lot - so sometimes it’s really hard for me not to think badly of him. I have to keep asking God for help!

 

[jmcrae]

She might be talking about venial sins like “white lies” or selfishness or pride. I know I can “fall” into these sins very easily! There’s a guy who works in my dept and he seems to get preferential treatment because he whines a lot - so sometimes it’s really hard for me not to think badly of him. I have to keep asking God for help!

Even these, you can overcome, with the practice of self-control. I find that weekly confession is a fantastic antidote to any kind of habitual sin - I strongly recommend it. We are not supposed to be sinners - Jesus commands us to be perfect, even as God the Father is perfect. This is not an impossible goal - just rather difficult. But well worth the effort.

 

[whatisthetruth]

Is this just hyperbole, or are you for real? There is no reason for a sincere Christian to fall into sin every day, especially if you are repenting of your sins when you confess them (meaning, resolving with a sincere heart to avoid any situation where that same sin could occur again, and then making sure to change your life’s circumstances so that that same temptation cannot return to you).

jmcrae, I was being modest geeesh. God forbid me if I said I only fall into sin once a month. I cant imagine the feed back I would get if I said that.

Satan is hard at work, and he will do anything to devour the weak at any moment in time.

Peter knows that for sure, How do you think he felt having denied Jesus not once but three times??.

He even told Jesus that would never happen when Jesus told Peter that he would deny Jesus.

Anyway, can we let God be God??

I believe our responsibility is to share with others the good news of the gospel we believe in and then to back up that belief and live our lives in accordance with what we and more importantly who we believe in.

jmcrae, I am not picking on you when ask this, but I am also asking myself…when will we as Christians STOP looking at and picking at the little things we can point to that we find wrong with each other and **START looking at the things we have in common **so that we can then better become the one united church Jesus so wants to have?

thank you

God and your family in 2008

truth