ALL CHRISTIANS: How do you answer: "It doesn't matter which religion you 'pick'"

[whatisthetruth]

Hi Delraek

When Jesus said the words “It is finished” before He died on the cross, He was referring to the Passover.

Matter of interpretation, thank you for that.

He still expects us to take up our cross and follow Him…

And I also believe we have to carry our cross too

to my comment

I mentioned to him I could relate because as a catholic, no matter what I did, even after confession, I did not feel righteous enough or holy enough to enter the kingdom of almighty God

you said

I’m at a loss as to why so many people leave the Catholic Church because of “feelings”!

I have a friend who left the Catholic faith (I say that loosely, because she never really put forth much effort in the Church and had very little knowledge about what the Catholic faith teaches) for the Baptist faith, and it seems her most prominent belief (and probably the main reason for her conversion) is that she now KNOWS that she is going to heaven!

I am not baptist, but the results are the same with me.

you roll your eyes, I say praise the Lord. I am curious as to why you are not happy for your friend and celebrating with her and saying Praise the Lord too?

Isn’t living with our heavenly Father for eternity in His Kingdom what all we Christians look forward to?

your friend has faith in God’s word like I do. I will be looking forward to meeting your friend. I am going to heaven to

Question is,

Are you going to be there too?

when you say yes, I will say Praise the Lord for you too

Now you understand why I said “I did not feel righteous enough”

As a catholic I would here people outside my church say they were going to heaven for sure, but I was never taught or believed that as a Roman Catholic.

As if changing Christian religions somehow changes the way God judges us - give me a break!

It does not change the way God judges,

the teachings of the RC church may be different from a baptist church

when I was young I watched Billy Graham who talked about going to heaven at the end of his shows. I remember thinking that was not for me because Catholic mass is not like that.

I come to find out Billy Graham’s message is for every one of us. the bible says we can be sure of our salvation, by faith.

RC’s teachings say otherwise

Did you talk to your friend and ask why she believes she is going to heaven?

let me ask you, If you were to die right now, would you go to heaven?

I invite you to post on my thread here

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=209665

thank you and

God bless,

truth

 

[jmcrae]

And only Roman Catholics have the fulness of truth???

Then why do many non RC’s believe in assurance of salvation (eternity in heaven when they die) and many RC’s do not?

Because “assurance of salvation” is a lie. God is not going to judge us until after we die. Nobody here on the earth can “pre-judge” what God is going to say, when He finally does judge us.

We are not allowed to judge ourselves. We can have a well-grounded hope, based on the fact that we are being obedient to Christ right now, but we cannot predict our future behaviour.

There seems to be an idea out there that faith means, “If I say I’m going to go to Heaven, there is nothing God can do to contradict me.” This sort of “name it and claim it” superstition is completely false.

 

[mercygate]

whatisthetruth:

I once had a priest that told me as a kid my sin of throwing stones could not be forgiven for the reason that I could of seriously injured my schoolmate. I always wondered had I been able to confess to God, if He would have told me the same. **I mean, are we not saved by the blood of Jesus? I never reconfessed it again to a priest. I wonder in a RC’s eye that sin is still on my soul? **

**thoughts???**Whenever I hear a childhood story like this, that CLEARLY flies in the face of sound Catholic doctrine AND discipline, I wonder if the memory is accurate.

Did you REALLY hear this correctly? Or did your little child’s heart misunderstand what the priest actually said?

If, at this time, you began to ask “why can’t we confess directly to Jesus”, it would kind of support the idea that you heard something that would give you an excuse to run from the Sacrament.

Why can’t we confess directly to Jesus? We DO. Trust me:.He does not leave the room when we confess in the presence of a Priest. We confess to a priest because, based on the scriptural witness, that is THE normative way Christians are to approach the Divine Mercy. Only the priest is commissioned to pronounce the blessed absolution entrusted to him by Christ in Jn 20:21-23.

Not challenging you here, whatisthetruth, but nearly every time an ex-Catholic brings up the “why can’t we confess directly to God” quibble, it usually means they do not like disclosing themselves to another human being. In short: no guts. It DOES take guts. And maturity.

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi jmcrae,

I respect what everyone is saying and quite frankly it comes down to exactly what you said…

Because “assurance of salvation” is a lie. .

Is “assurance of salvation” a lie or not?

Consider this…

You make a sincere confession and after saying “Amen” to last prayer of penance the priest gave you, even before you completely get up off your knees, God strikes you down with a heart attack which kills you instantly.

At the very next moment, you are in eternity,

Consider you did not hold back any sin mortal or venial from the priest in confession

you have never blasphemy against the Holy Spirit

According to what you believe, is there any chance that you will not spend eternity in heaven?

I hope you say no,

if you say yes there is a chance you will not spend eternity in heaven, please tell me how?

you just confessed before God, how would you not go to heaven?

I need an education then,

thank you

truth

 

[jmcrae]

Is “assurance of salvation” a lie or not?

Consider this…

You make a sincere confession and after saying “Amen” to last prayer of penance the priest gave you, even before you completely get up off your knees, God strikes you down with a heart attack which kills you instantly.

At the very next moment, you are in eternity,

Consider you did not hold back any sin mortal or venial from the priest in confession

you have never blasphemy against the Holy Spirit

According to what you believe, is there any chance that you will not spend eternity in heaven?

I hope you say no,

if you say yes there is a chance you will not spend eternity in heaven, please tell me how?

you just confessed before God, how would you not go to heaven?

I need an education then,

thank you

truth

This is not what Protestants mean when they say “assurance of salvation,” though.

The Protestant doctrine of “Assurance of Salvation” is also known as “Once Saved, Always Saved,” and means that if you recite the “Sinner’s Prayer” one time in your life, then you can sin your little brains out for the rest of your life, and still expect to go to Heaven.

This is why they go about in public, accost strangers, get them to pray the Sinner’s Prayer, and then notch their belt to signify that “another soul has been saved for Christ.” They do no follow-up with the people, nor do they make sure that the person makes it to Church, nor help them with their questions about the Bible - because it doesn’t matter what that person does or believes; all that matters is that they prayed the Sinner’s Prayer - everything else is considered a “work of man,” and thus, of no value.

If you disagree with this idea, then somewhere in your heart, you are still partly Catholic - and that’s a good thing, as far as I’m concerned.

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi jmcrae,

Hi jmcrae,

Thank you
Thank you
Thank you

and a final

Thank you Lord

jmcrae, I just realized why God sent me here. I will reveal it to on my next post.
However, It may become apparent on this one.
This is the post I have been waiting for, thank you again

This is not what Protestants mean when they say “assurance of salvation,” though.

If I may add the word “all” and you will see why I assure you

In my heart I can not make the judgement of all

I promise you God knows

I absolutely agree with… "This is not what all Protestants mean when they say “assurance of salvation,” though.

I am sorry I had to tie it down to the moment of your confession in my post, but I believed it was the only way to convey to you what is in my heart. Lets read on

The Protestant doctrine of “Assurance of Salvation” is also known as “Once Saved, Always Saved,”

I believe there is a correct way and a wrong way to make this statement

However, I believe I know what you mean and I agree with you 100%

and means that if you recite the “Sinner’s Prayer” one time in your life, then you can sin your little brains out for the rest of your life, and still expect to go to Heaven.

A total disrespect of God and as Paul Washer said, to which I agree,

I believe the greatest heresy

Thank you for your king gesture, partly roman catholic in that I will never never never stop believing in God and in Jesus Christ who died on the cross, was buried, rose from the dead and ascended into heaven and one day He will return, then watch out unbelieving “world”, His truth will be revealed in ways you have never seen.

I have to go but this is a good start, I will finish my with my final thoughts when I return

Thank you again and God bless

cont…

 

[whatisthetruth]

…Cont

jmcrae…

In part 1 of this post, I made reference to Paul Washer who, in case you do know know, is the director of Heart Cry Missionary Society.

In the video, link below, which I encourage you to listen to, Paul was quite passionate, and deliberate when he spoke the following words at a christian youth gathering…

Paul said,

I believe the greatest heresy in the american evangelical protestant church is that if you prayed that Jesus Christ would come into your heart, He will definitely come in.
You will not find that in any place in scripture.

So far I believe you agree, do you?

I encourage you not to draw false conclusions as you read the following.

What you need to know is that salvation is by faith and faith alone in Jesus Christ.

Right here I fear that you may disagree.
I encourage you to read on, bear with me and/or listen to the video to fully understand Paul’s message.

By the way, I believe Paul gives His message just like the words were coming from Jesus himself.

That is how strongly I believe the words which came out of Paul’s mouth in this video are true according to God’s will

Paul continues,

And **faith alone in Jesus Christ is preceeded and followed by repentance. A turning away from sin, a hatred for the things that God hates, and a love for the things God loves. A growing in holiness **and **a desire **not to be like…the world…**but to be like Jesus **Christ"

I say amen. How about you?

I am sorry You can not answer that question honestly without listenening to and understanding Paul’s complete message like I did.

“not to be like…the world…but to be like Jesus Christ”
I agree with Paul that we christians need to represent the love of Jesus to everyone we come in contact with especially to the souls of the lost world in any way that is humanly possible,
to be a representative of the fruit of the spirit which is,

the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control

Galatians 5 22-23

Do you agree with that?

Of all the fruits of the spirit, Jesus said, in the bible, the most important is love

And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love
1 Corinthians 13:13

Wow, I just seached for the word “love” in, Bible

almost 30 pages worth, No wonder Jesus says love is the greatest.

I believe, the way we as God’s children interact with other people in our walk of life, our thoughts words and actions, will indirectly have one of two effects,

either they will be drawn closer to, or will be pushed away from our heavenly Father

I realize that it is always God who draws people to Himself not us.

Agree?

Our heart and passion, and I have to believe yours is too, is to see that all people come to the knowledge and truth of the love and saving grace which God has for all of us.

Isn’t that your desire too??

Below is the video I made reference to. If you want to check it out here is the website of Heart Cry Missionary
Heart Cry Missionary

Here is the link to a 3 1/2 minute segment of Pauls with a video presentation

Paul Washer speech w/video

Here is the link to the full length video and may God bless you and give you an open heart to receive God’s word…Amen.

Paul Washer full length video

jmcrae in closing

I hope and pray that video was a blessing to you.

I have come to the conclusion that I absolutely believe that one of the reasons I am here is to illustrate that

Not all Protestants are what Roman Catholics make Protestants out to be and not all Roman Catholics are what non Roman Catholics make Roman Catholics out to be.

Thank you and God bless you

truth

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi mercygate, thank you for your sincere reply. you are right, I may have not heard the priest correctly in my childhood days.

Well that is the past and I kinda was being sarcastic, I am sorry
…God forgive me, I ask your forgiveness too,

by saying

I wonder in a RC’s eye that sin is still on my soul?

Not challenging you here, whatisthetruth,

thank you for comfirming, but I do not take it as a challenge as I try not to be in my answers or questions.

Why can’t we confess directly to Jesus? We DO. Trust me:.He does not leave the room when we confess in the presence of a Priest. We confess to a priest because, based on the scriptural witness, that is THE normative way Christians are to approach the Divine Mercy. Only the priest is commissioned to pronounce the blessed absolution entrusted to him by Christ in Jn 20:21-23.

they do not like disclosing themselves to another human being. In short: no guts. It DOES take guts. And maturity.

I absolutely agree, " It DOES take guts"

And I understand exactly what you are saying about “disclosing themselves to another human being” which is why you confess to a priest. Even though it is not the priest who actually forgives you. I understand.

However, If there are some catholics like I was, doing that can result in an individual drawing the wrong conclusion like me .

As a kid turned adult, I always thought it was the priest also had God given power to forgive sin. In the confessional, my heart, soul and mind was confessing to the priest not God.

The only time I felt I was talking to God is saying penance at the altar.

Ask kids that question, do you believe the priest has the God given power to completely absolve you of your sin?

I do not believe I am the only kid that would answer yes to that question.

In our church we are encouraged to have a accountability partner/witness.

Lets say I struggle with a sin. I tell my friend my struggle and give him permission to hold me accountable.

I fully understand what you mean when you say “they do not like disclosing themselves to another human being.”

I certainly do not like when my friend sees me and asks me, what progress have you made in your struggle with?

Or when I tell him I will give him a progress report every week.

Sometimes it is very uncomfortable to admit the truth, but in my heart and soul I know I need to because God also hears

I wanted to ask you a question in what you believe and I am in no way being sarcastic. please take this as sincere can be.

I will ask you what I asked jmcrae

Consider this…

You make a sincere confession and after saying “Amen” to last prayer of penance the priest gave you, even before you completely get up off your knees, God strikes you down with a heart attack which kills you instantly.

At the very next moment, you are in eternity,

Consider you did not hold back any sin mortal or venial from the priest in confession

you have never blasphemy against the Holy Spirit

According to what you believe, is there any chance that you will not spend eternity in heaven?

If no, then do you believe at the moment you say AMEN you will spend eternity in heaven should you die instantly right there at the altar after saying penance.?

If yes, Praise God you and I are on the same wavelength.

now one last thought and this is one of my point in this and other thread.

You leave confession with a clean soul.
You go to work the next day and something gets to you and you get mad. Sorry you probably a nice person. Lets say I am the catholic and I got mad at work an I in my madness lost my cool and said Gosh darn it (not that but the Lord’s name in vain).

I now have a sin on my soul.

Question. If I were to die that night, I would not have had a chance to get to confession to confess that or any other sin I may have commited.

Result …I die in sin

Question, Do you believe that in the workplace or anywhere, if that were to happen,

I can pray to God and say, Dear God I lost my cool and I took your name in vain, I am sorry I repent I ask your forgiveness in Jesus name.

And God will forgive me right there?

yes or no

and if you do believe God will forgive me,

do you also believe I would have to still be accountable and confess that same sin to a priest, who would give me penance for a sin that God already forgiven me?

Again not being sarcastic but quite sincere

Thank you
God bless,

 

[Delraek]

Hi whatisthetruth,

There’s something you may not be aware of regarding sins and confession. Here is a quote from Catholic Answers:

Are all of our sins—past, present, and future—forgiven once and for all when we become Christians? Not according to the Bible or the early Church Fathers. Scripture nowhere states that our future sins are forgiven; instead, it teaches us to pray, “And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors” (Matt. 6:12).

The means by which God forgives sins after baptism is confession: “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9). Minor or venial sins can be confessed directly to God, but for grave or mortal sins, which crush the spiritual life out of the soul, God has instituted a different means for obtaining forgiveness—the sacrament known popularly as confession, penance, or reconciliation.

This sacrament is rooted in the mission God gave to Christ in his capacity as the Son of man on earth to go and forgive sins (cf. Matt. 9:6). Thus, the crowds who witnessed this new power “glorified God, who had given such authority to men” (Matt. 9:8; note the plural “men”). After his resurrection, Jesus passed on his mission to forgive sins to his ministers, telling them, “As the Father has sent me, even so I send you. . . . **Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained” (John 20:21–23). **

And, yes, the Bible does show a distinction between mortal and venial sins:
“If anyone sees his brother commit sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death” (1 John 5:16-17)

God bless!

 

[Philthy]

Hi truth! :yup: Im butting in as usual - not that Mercygate needs any help from me! Thanks for the PM…

However, If there are some catholics like I was, doing that can result in an individual drawing the wrong conclusion like me . As a kid turned adult, I always thought it was the priest also had God given power to forgive sin. In the confessional, my heart, soul and mind was confessing to the priest not God.

Other than this illustrating that you had poor catechesis as a child - a failing on the part of your parents - there is not much of a point here. I say this because I sense, based on what you relate of your personal experience above, that you are trying to propose that there is something inherently wrong or confusing with confessing to a priest. I wouldnt draw that conclusion, I would reiterate that you were poorly taught and that your faith formation was the problem - not the Catholic faith.

The only time I felt I was talking to God is saying penance at the altar.

Well, it sounds like that was the only time you were actually talking to God! But that doesnt mean God didnt hear you. And it doesnt mean that he didnt forgive you. You were a confused, poorly taught child doing what you thought you should do - He is Merciful, and though he has bound himself to forgive through the Sacrament of Reconciliation, he has not limited Himself to ONLY forgive through the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

In our church we are encouraged to have a accountability partner/witness.

We do to. Going to confession is one level of accountability. Realizing that you are receiving the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ in the Eucharist and that anyone who does not do so in a “worthy” manner “recognizing” the very body of our Lord is another powerful level of accountability.

Sometimes it is very uncomfortable to admit the truth, but in my heart and soul I know I need to because God also hears

Interesting - you recognize the “need” to confess, and that an “accountability partner” most effectively accomplishes this. But you believe that it is better to have a “friend” as your accountablility partner as opposed to a priest. I wonder which avenue is best supported by Scripture and the early witnesses of the faith.

At the very next moment, you are in eternity,

Yes we believe this as a matter of faith.

According to what you believe, is there any chance that you will not spend eternity in heaven?

Not according to what we believe - there is no chance, but that does not make it an absolute certainty - God is still the judge and it is His judgement which is final, not our own. We can have as much confidence that we are saved as we do that the sun will rise in the east tomorrow, but ultimately it is in God’s hands and not ours. I rest assured that the sun will rise in the east, and I rest assured that God has forgiven me after I confess my sins.

con’d

 

[Philthy]

**

whatisthetruth:

Question, Do you believe that in the workplace or anywhere, if that were to happen, I can pray to God and say, Dear God I lost my cool and I took your name in vain, I am sorry I repent I ask your forgiveness in Jesus name.

**

whatisthetruth:

And God will forgive me right there?

He certainly might forgive you - if you were truly repentant, but simply saying that you are sorry isnt enough and there are no magic words that guarantee forgiveness.

do you also believe I would have to still be accountable and confess that same sin to a priest

, who would give me penance for a sin that God already forgiven me?
Yes - the normal way to approach God for forgiveness *in the case of a mortal sin *(venial sin doesnt require confession to a priest) is through confession to one of His appointed ministers who have recieved the authority as promised by Christ. "Then he breathed on them and said “Receive the Holy Spirit (ie MY POWER TO FORGIVE) ;the sins of those **you (!) **forgive (by the power of My holy Spirit given you) are forgiven them”. God has bound Himself to forgive you through this Sacrament with his ministers presiding, and He is not a liar, so you can “know” that you are forgiven in this way. However, this does not mean that God will not forgive you if you make a sincere confession directly to Him - but, apart from personal revelation, you won’t “know” that your sins have been forgiven.
Secondly, with respect to penance for a sin already forgiven - please review the consequences of King David’s murder and adultery episode. God forgive him, but there was a consequence nonetheless (ie, his son died). Forgiveness and penance are related but not mutually exclusive.

Peace be with you

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi Delraek,

There’s something you may not be aware of regarding sins and confession. Here is a quote from Catholic Answers:

Are all of our sins—past, present, and future—forgiven once and for all when we become Christians?

Not according to the Bible or the early Church Fathers. **Scripture nowhere states that our *future sins ***are forgiven;

It doesnt??

Hebrews 10
Christ’s Sacrifice Once for All
9 Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first (old testament

cont…

 

[whatisthetruth]

cont…

Minor or venial sins can be confessed directly to God, but for grave or mortal sins, which crush the spiritual life out of the soul, God has instituted a different means for obtaining forgiveness—the sacrament known popularly as confession, penance, or reconciliation.

This is what I do not understand why Catholics believe what they do.

When God describes sin, he does not mention venial and mortal.

I believe, even though my human mind can not comprehend it, the punishment for murdering someone is the same as if I told a lie.

In the civil court of law the punishment is significant,

However in God’s eyes, there is only one punishment for sin, any sin…**and that is eternity in hell, agree?? **

This sacrament is rooted in the mission God gave to Christ in his capacity as the Son of man on earth to go and forgive sins (cf. Matt. 9:6).

Jesus is the one who forgives sins, I agree

Thus, the crowds who witnessed this new power “glorified God, who had given such authority to men” (Matt. 9:8; note the plural “men”). After his resurrection, Jesus passed on his mission to forgive sins to his ministers, telling them, "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you. . . .

**Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained" (John 20:21–23). **

Another verse which is interpreted different.

Have you even thought about another meaning of John 20: 21-23

let me be blunt and I will illustrate another meaning.
I have a daughter and J. Scmuckeroo breaks in my house and rapes my daughter. In my humaness I am mad and I want to kill the rapist. The only thing is I am a christian and I comitted my life to Jesus who said love your neighbor as yourself.

Is this a test of faith? It happens all the time in real world scenarios. we as christians need are comanded t love our enemy by Jesus. As a christian bible said not to hold grudges. Bible also said if you thought it you commited the sin.

Dang, I “murdered” my neighbor, I am sorry Jesus, I repent. Jesus says to me “you have not forgiven your neighbor.”
Ok Jesus I forgive him, I am sorry I “murdered him”.
Jesus said “you have not forgiven him.”
"you mean I have to forgive him face to face?
Jesus said…
“If you forgive anyone (your neigbor) his sins, they are forgiven(meaning I have forgiven his sin, raping my daughter in my heart); if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven(I have not forgiven my neighbor so Jesus will not forgive me)”

Ok Jesus, I knock on the neighbors door and I let Him know that I forgive him for raping my daughter, surprised by my kindness, he offers an apology to me.

And, yes, the Bible does show a distinction between mortal and venial sins:

"If anyone sees his brother commit sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life.
**
Is death physical death or spiritual death?**

If it is spiritual death, well all sins lead to spiritual death…hell

if it is physical death, the verse makes sense because, the sinner would not have had a chance to pray and be forgive,

example, I am in a rage with some one, out of anger I take out a gun and kill him, in return one o his friends kills me.

I died with murder on my soul witth no hope.

my sin led to physical and spiritual death

May God

truth

 

[jmcrae]

You go to the confessional, we confess and repent directly to God. sometimes we have a “friend” as an accountability partner.

The difference is that the priest has received power from the Apostles to forgive our sins, by the laying on of hands from his Bishop (who in turn received it by the laying on of hands from his Bishop, on back to the Apostles themselves, hands laid upon hands from generation to generation); your friend has not - he can give you words of reassurance, but he has no power to confer Christ’s forgiveness upon you with the words of the Absolution, as a Catholic priest can do.

 

[whatisthetruth]

Hi jmcrae

The difference is that ****, by the laying on of hands from his Bishop (who in turn received it by the laying on of hands from his Bishop, on back to the Apostles themselves, hands laid upon hands from generation to generation); your friend has not - he can give you words of reassurance, but he has no power to confer Christ’s forgiveness upon you with the words of the Absolution, as a Catholic priest can do.

I fully understand exactly what Roman Catholics believe to be true about

“the priest has received power from the Apostles to forgive our sins.”

Consider this,

We all believe all mankind needs to forgive one another within their own heart.

jmcrae, if you steal from me, and later approach me and apologize, God wants me to forgive you in my own heart and not hold any grudges against you.

Agree??

Here is the difference in our beliefs,

I do not believe the apostles have any more power to forgive you of the sin you committed against God by stealing from me anymore than I can forgive you.

I believe it is only by Jesus’ blood that we are forgiven of our sins against God and one does not need to confess their sin through a priest in order for God and only God, not a priest, to forgive us of our sins which will open the door for all the faithful to have eternal life in heaven.

I am sorry to be blunt, but I do not belief Jesus Christ intended the succession of the apostles from the pope to the priests to be part of His church.

I will go to my grave believing that.

This is one of many disagreements which have been debated over the centuries.

he (my friend) has no power to confer Christ’s forgiveness upon you with the words of the Absolution, as a Catholic priest can do

Yes a Catholic priest “confers Christ’s forgiveness”.

Because I believe what I stated above, I do not believe it is necessary to have another man, priest or pope confer what God has promised.

Again, I am sorry for being blunt, but here is a practical illustration.

Your immediate supervisors boss, Mr Smith, tells you something directly.

**If you need clarification on something which Mr. Smith told you, would you **

**A) inquire of your boss?

or

B) Mr. Smith?, who is the one who originally told you that which needs clarification.**

I believe God’s promises to all of us does not need to be conferred by man, priest or anyone else.

If God promised it, it must be true. agree?

cont…

 

[whatisthetruth]

Cont…

Here are two of God’s many promises in one verse.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

First…God promises to punish us for our sins and that punishment is eternity in hell

Second…God promises us eternal life.

Unfortunately, not all Christians believe in the same meaning of Romans 6:23

So where is the confusion?

Lets break down the verse,

first part, “For the wages of sin is death”

I do not believe there is any question here.

God is telling us when we sin we die,
(spriritual death spending eternity in hell)

Agree??

Before addressing the second part, imagine that your friend just informed you that they have a gift for you, a gift they believe you will treasure the rest of your life.

**If you were to hear your friend tell you that, do you believe you would be excited and full of anticipation of what the gift is they have for you?. **

I do not know about you but, I would be

Now imagine your friend presenting their gift to you, and after you tear through all the wrappings and open the box which contains the gift, you find tissue paper.

You, push back all the tissue paper and the gift your friend promised to you that you would treasure is realized and yes it is a gift which you will indeed treasure for the rest of your life.

How do you believe you reaction to your friend will be?

Again, I do not know about you but, when I finally get to the point where the gift is revealed under that tissue paper, I believe my reaction would be of happiness expressed in anyway from big smiles to even tears of joy always backed up with a “thank you” to my friend who thought of giving me the treasured gift.

Would you tell family and friends of the treasured gift you just received?

I certaintly would not hesitate to tell family and friends about the treasured gift I just received from my friend.

I asked my 3rd and 4th graders yesterday, how excited they were each and everytime they received a gift from a family member or a friend that they did not expect to receive.

The smiles on their faces as they told of their treasured gifts was priceless.

Having said that,

cont…

 

[whatisthetruth]

cont…

the second part of Romans 6:23

“the gift of God”

I do not believe there is any question here.

I do not know about you, I read this and I am excited to hear God has a gift for me.

I get excited when a friend presents me with a gift, here is God telling me He has a gift for me. Wow!! I am really excited now.

**How about you?? **

One of the the reasons I am excited is that I do not have to wait in anticipation as to what the gift is which God is offering. He tells me in the third part of Romans 6:23,

“is eternal life”

Wow!! God is offering me eternal life, no way. Can it be true?

Oops, sorry God, of course you do not tell a lie. I must have misread the verse or did not understand your promise.

An unworthy sinner like me deserves eternity in hell not eternity in heaven. Let me read it again.

I re-read Romans 6:23 and the bible does in fact say,

the “gift of God is eternal life”

Wow, God is offering me heaven as a generous gift .

But how God can punish me for my sin and give me a gift of eternal life?

God’s answer to that question is in,

the fourth part which God says.

"in Christ Jesus our Lord"

Ahh. I see says the blind man.

God, when you said,

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

You are telling me it is my faith in Jesus, in which I can receive your gift of eternal life. It is Jesus’ precious blood, whenever I sincerely confess and repent of my sin, washes my sins away and Jesus remembers my sins no more.

Summed up in this verse in the bible,

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.)from the wrath of God and the fires of hell) Rom 10:9

Ahh, so is that what Paul Washer meant when he summed up your promise when he said,

What you need to know is that salvation is by faith and faith alone in Jesus Christ.
And faith alone in Jesus Christ is preceeded and followed by repentance.
A turning away from sin, a hatred for the things that God hates, and a love for the things God loves
A growing in holiness and a desire not to be like…the world…but to be like Jesus Christ"

Having said that, I committed to God to have the desire to live every second of every day of this life He blesses me with to do just that…

having a genuine hatred for the things that God hates, and a love for the things God loves. To want to grow in holiness and not be like…the world…but to be like Jesus Christ.

And in those times I sin and not successful in doing that, I maintain my faith in God’s promise, repent and confess my sin and God will remain faithful to me and forgive me of my sins.

I believe God’s promise is not just for me, but for all mankind.

As I type this post, I have confessed and repented to God. If I die right now I believe I am in heaven. I am excited I want to tell the world about the tremendous gift I received from almighty God.

I am just curious as to why Roman Cathoilcs hesitate to proclaim God’s Gift to them in which they can treasure the rest of their lives.

Heaven or hell is our destiny.

I believe God promised **all ** His gift of eternal life to all believers who have faith in and placed their trust in and accepted Jesus Christ, as their personal Lord and Saviour of their life, into their heart.

God bless you,

Truth

 

[MarcoPolo]

Because I believe what I stated above, I do not believe it is necessary to have another man, priest or pope confer what God has promised.

Hi again, truth…so if you were Paul in Acts 9, and Ananias came to baptize and lay hands on you, you would tell him, “Get away from me. I don’t need a man to give me what God has promised.” Of course not, because God works through men as His ministers.
(Acts 20:28, 1 Thes 5:12, etc…)

Or compare:
Titus 2:15 (Paul speaking to Titus, bishop at Crete) These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with** all authority**. Do not let anyone despise you.

Matthew 28:18 (Jesus speaking) All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

When the priests and bishops confer reconciliation, it is Christ through them. So it’s not “I take Jesus INSTEAD of a priest.” Or think of the Israelites when Moses spoke to them…they didn’t say, “Why do we need Moses, let’s get the message straight from God.” That is not the way to understand how God operates.

I am sorry you were poorly taught the Catholic faith. That makes this difficult for you from the get-go, no doubt.

 

[Rocky]

Hi Whatisthetruth,

It’s been interesting reading your and other posts. In one of them you used an analogy of something like if you use the Lord’s name in vain you can just say a sincere prayer from the heart promising Him that you are sorry and will try with upmost resolve never to do that again, and therefore you know that you have been forgiven.

My question, though, is it only the Lord you have hurt here? Have you not hurt the whole Body of Christ is some way by using His name in anger? Have you not hurt the people who were around you at the time who heard you use His name in that way? Have you not caused scandal?
Do you go to each person who were around you to apologize? If you do try to go to each person you think heard you, what if there was someone you missed? What if the person doesn’t believe you are sincere after your apology? What if they think that people who say they believe in Jesus are just hypocrites who take His name in vain? How do you make up for the sin you have committed against the whole Body of Christ? How do you receive forgiveness from the Body of Christ?

 

[jmcrae]

Consider this,

We all believe all mankind needs to forgive one another within their own heart.

Yes, of course. This is step one.

jmcrae, if you steal from me, and later approach me and apologize, God wants me to forgive you in my own heart and not hold any grudges against you.

Agree??

Of course. But if I steal from you, I have sinned not only against you, but also against God and against the whole community. My stealing something from you causes Mrs. MacLeod down the street to lock up her cat an hour earlier every night, because she feels the need to lock her doors and not come outside after dark, in case there is a thief (me) lurking in the yard waiting to steal something from her, too.

My sin of theft has hurt not only you, but also Mrs. MacLeod and her cat, and countless others, as well. My sin against you is not only between me and you; it involves the entire community.

Since I can’t go to each person in the community to apologize (this would be physically impossible) I go instead to a representative of that community, who is also a representative of God (this representative is the priest) and confess my sins to him. He then, on behalf of both God and the community (which includes you, and also includes Mrs. MacLeod’s cat) gives me forgiveness and absolution for my sins.

After that, I now have the grace of the Sacrament to go to you, apologize to you and return what I stole, and you can forgive me in person. I also bring that grace back with me into the community, become a more generous person, which generosity in turn affects Mrs. MacLeod and her cat; she says to herself, “It seems that people try to be good, anyway,” and she decides to trust, again - her cat is now free once again to roam at night, as he likes to do. (You and I know nothing about the effect of either of these things on Mrs. MacLeod; we don’t know her, or interact with her. But she and everyone else in the community is affected by my actions, both bad and good, even without my being aware at all of her existence.

I believe it is only by Jesus’ blood that we are forgiven of our sins against God and one does not need to confess their sin through a priest in order for God and only God, not a priest, to forgive us of our sins which will open the door for all the faithful to have eternal life in heaven.

Just as water needs a tap through which to come to your kitchen from the river, Christ’s blood shed in Palestine in 33 AD needs a “tap” to come to us in the here and now - the priest in the Sacrament of Reconciliation (and also in the other six Sacraments as well) is that “tap.”

I am sorry to be blunt, but I do not belief Jesus Christ intended the succession of the apostles from the pope to the priests to be part of His church.

I will go to my grave believing that.

Perhaps so (although I hope not), but I do not think that you will arise from your grave on the Last Day believing that.

This is one of many disagreements which have been debated over the centuries.

Actually it has really only been debated since the Protestant Reformation - before that, everyone simply assumed that it was true.

Your immediate supervisors boss, Mr Smith, tells you something directly.

**If you need clarification on something which Mr. Smith told you, would you **

**A) inquire of your boss?

or

B) Mr. Smith?, who is the one who originally told you that which needs clarification.**

Since my “immediate boss” (Jesus) has “left town,” I would ask one of his delegates (the Pope and his Bishops) to check the records of what the boss left, and ask him the question.

Sorry, in order to respond, I am having to make this longer - see next post …