All Christians , science and evolution

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Adamski

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I really wanted to get all Christians perspective. I used to be a strong believer in evolution and I am currently believing in it a lot less I know the options of belief in the catholic faith what are people’s options and why
 
I don’t believe in Darwinian Evolution. What Darwin proposed would be observed if his theory were true have not been observed. I do believe in natural selection and micro-evolution, and speciation, for that matter.
 
Stephen_says said:
Can you expand on this thought?
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There were specific things that Darwin predicted about future findings based on his theory that would, in turn, support his theory. One of which was, as archaeology, anthropology, etc… dug and explored more sites, that plenty of intermediate fossils would clearly show direct macro-evolution.
 
Kliska said:
There were specific things that Darwin predicted about future findings based on his theory that would, in turn, support his theory. One of which was, as archaeology, anthropology, etc… dug and explored more sites, that plenty of intermediate fossils would clearly show direct macro-evolution.
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God’s peace. There is an astounding number of “intermediate forms” now known. The evolution of whales (as just one example) through a finely-graded series of transitional forms is now about as thoroughly evidenced as all except the most hardened anti-evolutionists should admit. I will not take the time to enumerate, as any search of the scientific literature on the Internet will be sufficient.
However, I strongly recommend reading Ken Miller’s book “Finding Darwin’s God”. Ken Miller is a serious biologist and practicing Catholic, and his book is clear and highly informative. Blessings, ~Br. Carlo~
 
It’s not unreasonable to think that God allowed for evolution, he’s certainly awesome enough for it. I just don’t buy that all life comes for a random plopping of gunk from a random puddle hit by a random space rock. At least not we humans with the dignity God gave us and his love for us.

And I don’t think evolution works past anything physical. You can account for morals, feeling, or conciousness. Especially when the carnal desires we have are strong yet we know better. Evolution is to lifeless for that.*

Did women really wait 4,000,000,000 years to get the vote or did God drop us off somewhere down the line? To me, either one could work and it really doesn’t matter all that much. God surely is powerful enough to have planted them bones or to have enjoyed the T-Rex.

*as a tangent, I find the (usually) atheist “God of the Gaps” rebuttal to theism to be hypocritical because what is evolution if not a scientific and god of gaps?
 
You are going to get many different viewpoints but the main difference is between those who take the bible literally and those who understand that the bible as a collection of different types of writings.

I am a biologist (two degrees and working on a third) and I have no issues whatsoever with Catholic teachings regarding evolution. I see the bible as a collection of different types of writings, including poems of praise, historical records, and allegorical type writings meant to teach and guide God’s people. The Old Testament has never claimed to be a scientific textbook. As a Catholic, I am not solely dependent on the bible because we also need the traditions that have been passed down from the early Church fathers combined with the understanding of the two from the magisterium in order to make sense of it all. In fact, there was no New Testament until over 300 years after Jesus ascended into heaven. In one of St. Paul’s letters, he tells us to follow the traditions. There were traditions that the Jews had in regards to how they viewed the Old Testament writings. We inherited those traditions. No one ever tells us that we must solely depend on the bible. There is nothing in those traditions that bothers me as a scientist (or a farmer).

God gave us the curiosity and intellect to try to understand the world around us. This is a beautiful gift! For me, each new discovery in science is like taking a peek at God’s desk. What saddens me is when people fear knowledge or science.

One thing I love about Catholicism is the fact that I can dive in and search and search through centuries and centuries of knowledge and writings and never know it all. To me, it resembles science in that aspect.
 
Catholic_farmer said:
You are going to get many different viewpoints but the main difference is between those who take the bible literally and those who understand that the bible as a collection of different types of writings.

I am a biologist (two degrees and working on a third) and I have no issues whatsoever with Catholic teachings regarding evolution. I see the bible as a collection of different types of writings, including poems of praise, historical records, and allegorical type writings meant to teach and guide God’s people. The Old Testament has never claimed to be a scientific textbook. As a Catholic, I am not solely dependent on the bible because we also need the traditions that have been passed down from the early Church fathers. In fact, there was no New Testament until over 300 years after Jesus ascended into heaven. In one of St. Paul’s letters, he tells us to follow the traditions. There were traditions that the Jews had in regards to how they viewed the Old Testament writings. We inherited those traditions. No one ever tells us that we must solely depend on the bible. There is nothing in those traditions that bothers me as a scientist (or a farmer).

God gave us the curiosity and intellect to try to understand the world around us. This is a beautiful gift! For me, each new discovery in science is like taking a peek at God’s desk. What saddens me is when people fear knowledge or science.

One thing I love about Catholicism is the fact that I can dive in and search and search through centuries and centuries of knowledge and writings and never know it all. To me, it resembles science in that aspect.
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I agree. I also think that the bible actually supports evolution. You might be interested in the Latin-English Study Bible:

{1:20} Dixit etiam Deus: Producant aquæ reptile animæ viventis, et volatile super terram sub firmamento cæli.
{1:20} And then God said, “Let the waters produce animals with a living soul, and flying creatures above the earth, under the firmament of heaven.”

~ In this next step within the development of creation, God creates the first creatures that have living souls (but not immortal souls) within the sea. Again, science agrees, teaching that the first animals were in the water, not on the land. The word ‘reptile’ in Latin is not equivalent to the English word ‘reptile.’ The best translation in this context is probably either ‘moving creatures’ or ‘animals.’ The text is contrasting the moving creatures of the waters with the plants.

sacredbible.org/studybible/OT-01_Genesis.htm#1

{11:3} Fide intelligimus aptata esse sæcula verbo Dei: ut ex invisibilibus visibilia fierent.
{11:3} By faith, we understand the world to be fashioned by the Word of God, so that the visible might be made by the invisible.

sacredbible.org/studybible/NT-19_Hebrews.htm#11

{42:5} Hæc dicit Dominus Deus creans cælos, et extendens eos: formans terram, et quæ germinant ex ea: dans flatum populo, qui est super eam, et spiritum calcantibus eam.
{42:5} Thus says the Lord God, who created the heavens and expanded it, who formed the earth and all that springs from it, who gives breath to the people in it, and spirit to those walking on it.

sacredbible.org/studybible/OT-27_Isaiah.htm#42
 
Per_Crucem said:
I think it’s completely unreasonable. It is unreasonable because God is not the author of death.
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Death exists. If God didn’t create it then God is not the creator, but merely a creator. There is at least one other creator, the entity which created death. You might wish to rethink your theology here.

rossum
 
rossum said:
Death exists. If God didn’t create it then God is not the creator, but merely a creator. There is at least one other creator, the entity which created death. You might wish to rethink your theology here.

rossum
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Death is not a function of creation. Death is the separation of the material body from the immaterial soul. The cause of death was man’s separation from communion with the source of Life. It was not intended as part of God’s creation; rather, it was imposed as a consequence of sin. The Scriptures are abundantly clear on this point:

“Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned.” - Romans 5:12

However, death has been conquered in the cross and resurrection of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Christ did not conquer what God created (death), rather, He conquered that which was unnatural to God’s good creation. Death is completely opposed to everything we know of God’s character.
 
The terms ‘natural selection’ and ‘evolution’ are arguably two of the most misunderstood words in science.

Natural selection does not work with way many people think it does. It is a suggested mechanism for change over time. That’s it. It is a way to describe a slight advantage one mutation might have over another and, over time, become a dominant trait in a species. The fact that animals can adapt over time to their environment is an amazing concept. If there was no way to adapt, there would be very few living creatures on earth. Is that what God intended? Or, through our incredible genetics and the way they allow for mutations, did He equip His creatures with ways to adapt to their changing environments?

Evolution is the description of change in a population over many, many generations. The origin of the changes are in the genetics and are thought to be caused by the mechanism of natural selection. There is no voodoo here. Evolution does not happen in one animal. It happens over many, many generations. Rather than allowing animals to die off, it allows animals to continue on, to survive, and to overcome challenges presented in the environment.

The monkey thing. This really bothers people. We are not monkeys or apes. We can sin. They cannot. Apes societies can have very violent behaviors, but they lack the ability to know and love or reject God, so they cannot sin. It’s the soul that divides us from animals. So, when you hear of various fossils that have human-like appearances and may be physically related to both modern humans and modern apes, this should not bother you. No one has ever found a fossilized soul.
 
sehacopian said:
I agree. I also think that the bible actually supports evolution. You might be interested in the Latin-English Study Bible:

{1:20} Dixit etiam Deus: Producant aquæ reptile animæ viventis, et volatile super terram sub firmamento cæli.
{1:20} And then God said, “Let the waters produce animals with a living soul, and flying creatures above the earth, under the firmament of heaven.”

~ In this next step within the development of creation, God creates the first creatures that have living souls (but not immortal souls) within the sea. Again, science agrees, teaching that the first animals were in the water, not on the land. The word ‘reptile’ in Latin is not equivalent to the English word ‘reptile.’ The best translation in this context is probably either ‘moving creatures’ or ‘animals.’ The text is contrasting the moving creatures of the waters with the plants.

sacredbible.org/studybible/OT-01_Genesis.htm#1

{11:3} Fide intelligimus aptata esse sæcula verbo Dei: ut ex invisibilibus visibilia fierent.
{11:3} By faith, we understand the world to be fashioned by the Word of God, so that the visible might be made by the invisible.

sacredbible.org/studybible/NT-19_Hebrews.htm#11

{42:5} Hæc dicit Dominus Deus creans cælos, et extendens eos: formans terram, et quæ germinant ex ea: dans flatum populo, qui est super eam, et spiritum calcantibus eam.
{42:5} Thus says the Lord God, who created the heavens and expanded it, who formed the earth and all that springs from it, who gives breath to the people in it, and spirit to those walking on it.

sacredbible.org/studybible/OT-27_Isaiah.htm#42
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I noticed some of those little details as well. 🙂

What would be much more difficult is if the inspired author of the Old Testament had tried to explain life from a scientific view. Could he have asked God to explain what a cell is and the function of cell organelles? What if God explained to Moses, right there at the beginning, about how the genetic code works? Could Moses have even described animals the readers would never see? That would not have worked, therefore, the bible is not meant to be a science textbook.
 
Catholic_farmer said:
I noticed some of those little details as well. 🙂

What would be much more difficult is if the inspired author of the Old Testament had tried to explain life from a scientific view. Could he have asked God to explain what a cell is and the function of cell organelles? What if God explained to Moses, right there at the beginning, about how the genetic code works? Could Moses have even described animals the readers would never see? That would not have worked, therefore, the bible is not meant to be a science textbook.
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Exactly. I think that when athiests compare the bible to a science textbook, they will abandon it when they realize that they are not the same. I think they are asking for dissapointment. I think a good challenge for an athiest would be to have them explain evolution to a stone-age goat herder. They wouldn’t be able to do it if their life depended on it.

😦
 
Catholic_farmer said:
What would be much more difficult is if the inspired author of the Old Testament had tried to explain life from a scientific view.
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Indeed. Here is a little something I prepared earlier:

Why the Bible is not a science textbook

SCENE: Inside a tent in the desert. There is a small table and chair in the middle of the tent. Some baggage is stacked at the back.

Characters: GOD invisible and omnipresent. MOSES offstage.

MOSES enters the tent.

MOSES: “What a day! If I ever see another piece of sand I swear that I am goi…”

GOD: “Moses!”

MOSES: (surprised) “Yes Lord!”

GOD: “Get pen, ink and papyrus.”

MOSES goes to the baggage and fetches a pen, ink and papyrus. He takes them to the table and sits down.

GOD: “Begin writing.”

MOSES: “Yes Lord.”

GOD: “In the beginning I created a quantum fluctuation at the hyper-sub-quark level …”

MOSES: (interrupting) “Sorry Lord. Was that spelled K-W-A-H-K?”

GOD: “Hmmm. I see a problem. Humans will not discover hyper-sub-quarks for another 8,726 years three months and sixteen days. Perhaps something less cosmological might work better. Moses, begin a new sheet of papyrus.”

MOSES picks up a new piece of papyrus and prepares to write.

GOD: “In the beginning I created deoxyribonucleic acid …”

MOSES: (interrupting) “Sorry Lord, but could you spell that please?”

GOD: “Oy vey! Why did I make these people so stupid!”

GOD touches a finger to Moses’ forehead.

MOSES: “Ah, now I understand. Thank you for giving me all that knowledge Lord. Unfortunately I see a problem. If I write ‘deoxyribonucleic acid’ then none of the other Israelites will know what the he… heck I have written about unless you touch all their foreheads as well.”

GOD: “Hmmm. A good point Moses. Let me think about it for a few thousand years.”

MOSES: “But what do I do while I am waiting?”

GOD: “Never mind, I have finished thinking.”

MOSES: “That was never thousands of years.”

GOD: “Do you doubt Me! Time is Mine to command. It is subject to Me, not Me to it.”

MOSES: (humbly) “Sorry Lord.”

GOD: "Start a new piece of papyrus.

MOSES picks up a new piece of papyrus and prepares to write.

GOD: “In the beginning I created the heavens and the earth …”

CUT: Fade to black.

🙂

rossum
 
Adamski said:
I really wanted to get all Christians perspective. I used to be a strong believer in evolution and I am currently believing in it a lot less I know the options of belief in the catholic faith what are people’s options and why
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I only deal with three chapters out of the fifty chapters in Genesis.😃

There is a dramatic shift from Genesis 1: 25 to Genesis 1: 26. In current science language, this signifies the Catholic “difference” between the science of human evolution and the science of all other living organisms.
 
I go wherever the evidence goes like Socrates.

Right now the science says evolution.

So therefore it’s evolution for me.

I see no contradiction between evolution and faith.

Social Darwinism and survival of the fittest is something I think Christ and myself would disagree with.
 
adawgj said:
I go wherever the evidence goes like Socrates.

Right now the science says evolution.

So therefore it’s evolution for me.

I see no contradiction between evolution and faith.

Social Darwinism and survival of the fittest is something I think Christ and myself would disagree with.
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Which faith?

The Catholic Church teaches that the spiritual soul of the human species does not evolve from blood and guts, skin and bones. In addition, the Catholic Church teaches that the originating human population is two. This is about 998 less than one of the science estimates.
 
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